HBecwithFn7

I actually did see a couple... in fact, out in my county.

Ahead by 5% of all the "nj.com" voters.... not necessarily all of NJ...

I guess it depends on the distribution of voters. If the voters of one party in the suburbs, overall, outnumber the voters in the cities, then the electoral method would work. I agree the population margins have to be just right. The suburb district has to have enough populace to get a large number of electoral votes. I can see where it might not work so well in Texas. Lot's of open space with very few populations. Probably all the electoral votes would go to the cities. But in a densely populated state like NJ or PA.... where the margins are also very close...just maybe....

It's why states like PA are pursing "electoral vote" acquisition by "voting district" vs. "winner take all." To nullify the power of large urban cities.

I'm surprised the MSM actually covered that story! They usually try to suppress "successful self defense" stories like that since it goes against their "anti-gun" agenda. That, or they try to re-spin them in an anti-gun way (i.e. making the shooter/defender look bad/like an idiot) somehow.

We have the new fangled "computer machines" with the "touch screen." At the end, it spits out a "print out" of your choices that it doesn't let you keep, but is kept in case of a machine failure. Ah well.

Fair enough... Thanks. I will stay away.

If I'm going to go "out of state," I'd most likely go into a shop so I can look at what I'm getting first. I would not do it all "on-liine." And, besides, Paypal and like services offer too much of a paper trail. Plus, I want to buy at a place where I can get it serviced easily, if needed.

I will. Thank you all. I see some things I like in re: one of the NJGF's "sponsored" partners. Everything's in stock and at reasonable prices. We'll see.

Thank you. So, it basically comes down to "overall" cost. Then I guess I have a lot of comparison shopping to do, both in and out of state. What are the going rates for NICS/transfer fees? Are there standards in NJ, or does it vary between FFL? Feel free to PM if you don't want to reply publicly.

Sorry folks, just another "newbie" question here. I'm trying to figure out which option is better for me. As a NJ resident, I can choose to purchase my firearms either in NJ or outside NJ (in which case they'd need to be transfered to a NJ FFL for final delivery). For the NJ residents here, which is your preferred option... purchase "in state" or "out of state"? Example: I might want to purchase "out of state" if the prices are cheaper. But I also have to consider any fees I might have to pay to the NJ FFL that receives/completes the transfer from that out of state purchase. Are there any such fees, and if so, are they normally large enough to nullify any potential cost savings by purchasing out of state? I'm assuming that NJ Sales taxes aren't a factor, since one would be responsible for paying them for either type of puchase If out of state, the "use tax" would still apply, and more than likely collected, since the NJ FFL has state tax nexus or would likely be pressured by the state to collect it (not like we're buying "off the Internet")... So, overall, do most NJ residents find it better to purchase "in state" or "out of State"? I'm just trying to figure out how it works here. Thanks.

PPC - Becoming a Member

Please forgive my lack of knowledge but, just out of curiosity, what makes a LH revolver "wrong?" (FTR, I'm right handed).

Precisely. If it helps distinguish you from someone else with a name close to yours that has a bad criminal history, it's well worth the intrusion. I will provide mine on FID/P2P's and the 4473.

I'm not as concerned with the "real truth" which, of course, I do know. What does concern me is what the system "thinks" the truth is... and, upon which LE and FFLs must rely. Excrement does happen! Any time a system relies on "human/manual data entry," there is always concern.

My apologies. Obviously, NICS gets its info primarily from NCIC and III (all maintained by the FBI). I gather an LE agency (e.g. NJSP SBI) could go directly to NCIC for their checks. I was simply curious as to what might turn up in a check, in the case of someone who has no criminal/psychiatric history whatsoever (no arrests, etc.), and is attempting their first FID/permit. Assuming there is "no information" at all, what response would NICS/NCIC return to the dealer or LE agency?

No, I was referring to NICS, specifically. I am aware of NCIC, having participated in their "Operation Identification" program for personal property many years ago. I even remember my home town's NCIC number. Basically, you marked/engraved all your property with the code "NCIC-nnnnn-L4SS" (where nnnnn was your municipality's NCIC number, and L4SS was the "Last 4 of your Soc. Sec."). You then registered that number with your local LE agency. Supposedly, it would help if any of your household property were ever stolen and subsequently recovered. Didn't work in my case :unknw:

I think I already know the answer to this, but is there any way for a private citizen to view/access their own NICS entries, for verification purposes, or is it restricted to LE personnel only? This, similar to a person viewing their own credit report(s)/history. Can one do a FOIA request for it? The objective being, to correct/challenge any potential errors (before they might lead to other problems), or, at least, to facilitate completion of FID and like docs and avoid any "discrepancies" when filing said docs. Like I say, I'm pretty sure the answer is no (as that might also facilitate the "bad guys" as well), but there's no harm in asking...

That's the problem... it will never match. The NJ DMV doesn't store a full middle name... only a middle "initial." They don't have the database field for it (well, they didn't as of the last renewal in 2010). OTOH, my passport *would* match perfectly, but doesn't have my address on it (as has been pointed out in a different thread). My name appears on my driver's license the same way you wanted to sign yours on your naturalization certificate. I'm pretty sure that won't be acceptable in this "post 9/11" era of "extra scrutiny." Everyone (not just the USCIS) wants a "full legal name" now. If I put just the two initials and last name on the FID, I'm pretty sure it would fail NICS checks and/or my chief would reject it... or, at least, question it seriously. One would think that NJ DMV would have updated their system by now, given the need to document people more closely and the importance of Driver's License/State ID for identification purposes, but nooooooo... Anyway, I'll have a conversation with my chief before I submit the FID and see what he wants. Also, I'll be renewing my driver's license in another 2-3 months (regular renewal time) so I'll see if they can add the full middle name, and will certainly make sure the address is no longer my PO box but the street address (both are on file there).

In the same situation as you, I have rented both. I'm set on the standard P226 9mm. It will be my 1st, upon FID and permits.

I might have a solution for that. My driver's license is up for renewal in February 2014, as it turns out. I'll see if they'll let me go back to putting my street address on it. They have both on file. They're supposed to have a street address on file for LE purposes, anyway. The range I go to (Heritage Guild in Easton PA) did not hassle me about the PO Box. They accepted me as an "annual" member anyway.

It's only a big deal with the NJ DMV, because their database doesn't have a field for full middle name... just the middle "initial." So it has to show "J Q Public, Jr" on the license itself. The problem is that Driver's License is *the* absolute primary form of ID for just about anything, these days. And with all these bureaucracies that say, "The name must match exactly..." I wasn't sure what might happen with the FID process. When I take credential exams for my profession, I have to show two forms of ID, and "The name must match exactly." Most of the proctors want to see your driver's license. But I have to show my passport, since it has "J Quenton Public, Jr" on it and not "J Q Public." Point being, since driver's license is so "cannon," people raise flags when you show them anything else, even though it might be just as legal/acceptable.

Florida, indeed.

I am none of those. I am not Gecko45 , and it's Independence Twp. I am told "less than 30 days." We'll see. Thanks

OK Folks. I've almost ready to "begin the bureaucracy" and file for FID and permits. I've been told by some of you (and by some others in th know) that my municpality should handle things swiftly (i.e. less than 30 days, if all goes well). I'll have to wait just a little longer, because I'm going to be doing some cave diving, and pulling along some of the rocks inside a cave tends to wear down one's finger pads... almost raw, even. It takes a good 3 months or so for them to return to normal. So, I'm probably a good 3 months away from the actual start. Anyway, my post today is about some of the finer points of the NJ and federal "bureaucracy" processes, especially when it comes to "verifying my identity." I may be in for a bit of a rough ride, depending on how things are handled. I'll explain. The standard "cannon" of any decent bureaucracy is to require everyone to use "First name," "Middle Initial," "Last Name." etc., because "everybody does it... right???" WRONG! I just had to be one of those crazy people out there that use "First Initial," "Middle Name," "Last name." And I've been battling bureacracies all my life, as a result. For purposes of this thread, let's call me, "John Quenton Public, Jr." I've always gone by "J. Quenton Public, Jr." At 14 I got a Social Security card that says "J. Quenton Public, Jr." All of my school transcripts say, "J. Quenton Public, Jr." Enter my first battle with that grand bureaucracy we all love to hate, the "NJ Div. of Motor Vehicles," who absolutely insisted that I use "John Q. Public, JR." on my Driver's License. No amount of negotiation was successful. Well, after a few months, I finally got a breakthrough. I'd be allowed to have just the initials "J. Q. Public, JR." on my NJ driver license, and I could sign the license, "J. Quenton Public, Jr." And off I went to college. All of my college transcripts showing "J. Quenton Public, Jr." Still not satisfied, after graduating college out of state, and turning 21, I actualy went to court and filed a legal "change of name," shortening the first name "John" to just the initial "J". So, technically, I am, legally, "J Quenton Public, Jr" now, (no period in front of the "J". My birth certificae was updated accordingly. And I walked out of the court room and into the US Paspport office and got my first US Passport as "J Quenton Public, Jr." It's been that way for the last 30+ years. But, sadly, my battles with the NJ DMV were not over! Upon my return home, they absolutely could not allow me to call myself "J Quenton Public, Jr." because their database does not have a field for a "full middle name," only the "initial." Hence I still have to list my Driver License name as "J Q Public, Jr," but, again, I can sign it "J Quenton Public, Jr." And, thus, my dilema in the FID bureaucracy process. Will I fail the process, NICS checks, etc. due to this discrepency? For the record, I have no criminal or pyschological history, whatsoever. All my documents, credit history, tax returns, voter registration, employment history, etc. are listed as "J Quenton Public, Jr." I see that I can fill out the sts-033 and sp-066 (even the SBI_212A) as "J Quenton Public, Jr" and that is what I want on the FID card. And I'm more than willing to explain all of this to my chief. Oh, one other thing. For "security/spam reduction" reasons, all mail goes to a PO box that is not in the same town as where I live. Even the NJ Drivers license goes to that PO Box, although I'm certain the DMV has both PO Box and street addresses on file. Only my voter registration has my street address actually printed. So, am I in for a huge "bureaucracy battle" in getting my FID? Any thoughts from experienced battlers, greatly appreciated. Thanks