fslater

True....... But the counter guy has no way of knowing if you are a prohibited person when your looking....... I'm not sure if there is an NJ law about handing a gun to some one looking in a gun shop other than the ATF prohibited person list. All I know is EVERY time I've gone into a gun shop, a gun would not even come out of the case untill the counter guy saw my FID (I suppose a card from any state would suffice)...... I wonder if a NJ dealer would show/let a person from out of state handle a firearm if that person were from a state that only required a resident DL to puchase?

The F sufix in the model number of these Mini's designates folding stock. If thats the only (1) evil feature why the ban on these specific models?

I have a related question. Even tho its legal to keep HP's in your home and loaded in a firearm in your home, I keep loaded with so called NJ legal ammo ie Critical Defense. When I first applied for my FID I read the whole NJ firearms statute end to end. Where it talked about HPs it said something to the effect of and dum-dum. I looked up the definition of dum-dum ammo on Wikipedia, "An expanding bullet is a bullet designed to expand on impact, increasing in diameter to limit penetration and/or produce a larger diameter wound. It is informally known as a Dum-dum or a dumdum bullet.". This said, do the so called NJ legal polymer filled tipped expanding bullets fall into the same catagory as hollow points in the eyes of the "NJ" law/courts?

Anyone that the gun shop permits to be in the shop can be there regaurdless of if they are with you or not, thats irrelivent. NJ law does not touch on that subject at all. How ever If the person with you does not have a FID do not let them hold or even touch the firearm!!! That would not only by the letter of the law be transfering it to them, but I would bet money that the shop rep would go totally balistic and throw you both out.

If I'm not mistaken, showing FPID when buying ammo is just so your name and number are put in the book...... Its only a log and goes no where but under the dealers counter.

I was arrested for bogus drug charges in the 70's. It was thrown out affter 3 court apperinces with arresting officer no shows. When I applied for my FID the arrest showed and the officer handling the FID questioned me about it...... Long story short, The chief wanted a transcript of the affair before making a decission. After a lot of hounding of the officer handeling it and a 4 month delay I finally got the card, but as was previously stated. The wording in the qualifications gives the PD Chief subjectivity in making his dissision. It can be appealed in county court and probably denyals will be over turned, but good ole NJ typically puts you through the ringer in regaurd to any gun issue.

Ironic isn't ..... A liberal will say the government is bad minipulating and taking thier rights..... As long as its a right they agree with, if they don't agree with it, its wrong and the government should abolish it .I guees our forefathers did right with 13 of the bill of rights, but the second was a mistake. Evedently after the revalutionary war was over government corruption and aggessive criminal activity just doesn't exist. That coupled with the fact that the modern day police are always there to protect us against the scum of the earth that would cause one to have to protect himself and his family, who needs a weapon?

Some one said it before me....... I think the wrap for 1)Smggling 2)illeagal importation 3) substandard quality, Just might trump the NJ laws

Next thing you know NJ is going to require a P2P to get your gun back from a gunsmith or warrantee repair. Sounds insane don't it...... But don't put it past our extreem left state government

What the initial issue is, is granting a FID, not what guns are in the house or who has access to them. I wouldn't have waisted money on a lawyer untill it was turned down by the PD and County court, neither of which have good cause to do so in your situation.

nics is open 7 days a week. But all year round NJ won't prossess thu them on sunday hence you can't buy or pick up a gun on sunday in NJ. We should be greatful they dont say "due to the slumping ecconomy in NJ the office that handles nics will only be open between 3:00 and 4:00 am on the 4th monday of months that start with a J" Don't ya just luv Constitution protecting law makers we got us here.

I have an Italian made 92F, used when I got it so god know how many rounds it fired before that. I've put about 1,500 thru it without one single problem..... Love the gun. little big for CC though.

I agree. In the fore seeable future NJ internally in not going to change its view on firearms. The recent fedral court rulings are our best hope. I think its up to now (that its an indiviual RIGHT) orginizations like the NRA to lobby that 2A says, keep and BEAR arms shall NOT BE INFRINDGED, to get some form of shall issue mandated at the fedral level. I still cannot believe how law makers can get away with taking the straight forward words in 2A and ridiculously twisting them to meet thier own personal views....... God bless America

I just picked up a Bersa 45 UC and won't have a chance to get to the range for a few weeks (working week ends sux). Besides the typical Bersa slamming, its a cheap peice'a........ Anybody got any actual shooting time with one, that can give me opinion? Are the sights dead on or 6 o'clock? What kind of ammo does it like/dislike ect?

I made my original reply before reading all the posts in the thread, sorry everyone for the redundancy of what I said. Vjf, I understand what your saying……….. I know NJ has no ban on CC and know from experience NJ gets away with “NJ gets away with HOW they phrase the law” or I think more accurately the twisted, fit my agenda interpretation. Again I say 2A says Right of the people, not privilege or right of those with "justifiable need". Maybe what NJ advocate organizations need to do is sue the state for law changes based on “infringement of the right of the people” with the concession those with "extreme justifiable need" are granted (LOL). Then when the mock hearing by the state throws it out, take it to the US court with points that would preempt the ability to require excessive fees or requirements or restrictions. I know this has probably been considered by people smarter and more legally savvy than myself, but if it were any other bill of rights issue US court would intervene so why not give it a shot here? One last thing before my rambling comes to an end……. In regard to the original thread topic…… I’m a poor blue collar worker and $500 + requirement costs is a lot for me. My gross income is about 50K and household is about 100k and I’m paying a large home mortgage. That makes a CC permit 1% of my gross income, .5% of household….. Of the people who said they would pay the $500+ fee, would you still say you’d pay the fee if the cost was a whole 1% of your annual gross????? Just wondering? Remember a $ number is relevant to what you have and to many even middle class 500 is a lot.

I would pay it if I could afford it. Unfortunately thats not the case. Maybe if it were a life time fee (instead of annual) like the FPID is, it would be doable. In light of the fact that the Supreme Court decision of the second amendment being an Individuals “RIGHT” is now the current decision, and constitutionally that right “shall not be infringed” I don’t see how any fee other than actually material and admin costs can be imposed. Also it being a Right under the current decision would lead one to the impression that “Shall issue” is mandatory under the constitution. Am I missing something here or just unable to believe the extent to which liberal law makers can get away with saying, “It means what I say it means, not what it says”?

Heck....... I look at a gunon line for months before I decide to buy....... Then shop for price till the NJ permits ready to expire. Good ole NJ, I could go to any street corner in Newark an buy a gun in 5 minuite. But being a law abiding citizen and doing it acording to NJ law is harder than getting a Top Secret Government Security clearence.

Has anyone here ever read the NJ law re: fire arms ID cards and hand gun permits? I hear a lot of talk in NJ about my PD did this or made me do that. Fact is its all laid out in NJ statute 2C:58-3. It stipulates the only money that can be collected by your PD is $5.00 for a FID and $2.00 for each Hand Gun Permit, says "The application shall be signed by the applicant and shall contain as references the names and addresses of two reputable citizens personally acquainted with him." with no restricion on the refferences home state, even says " The application for the permit to purchase a handgun together with a fee of $2.00, or the application for the firearms purchaser identification card together with a fee of $5.00, shall be delivered or forwarded to the licensing authority who shall investigate the same and, unless good cause for the denial thereof appears, shall grant the permit or the identification card, or both, if application has been made therefor, within 30 days from the date of receipt of the application for residents of this State and within 45 days for nonresident applicants.". also says IN THE LAW. "There shall be no conditions or requirements added to the form or content of the application, or required by the licensing authority for the issuance of a permit or identification card, other than those that are specifically set forth in this chapter." Its all laid out in NJ law folks, If the Autherizing Athority starts making up the rules all you have to do is leave them and go to your counties Superior Court. Its free and they will see that its handled to the letter of the law. They did for me. Read the law as the state wrote and don't be bullied by the autherizing athority. http://criminal-jury.blogspot.com/2007/12/2c58-3-purchase-of-firearms.html