BRN169

NJ's laws are too over the top to ignore. To pass up the state that issues carry permits yet makes the process so political, so corrupt and so arbitrary and capricious that people who have legitimate cause are routinely denied would have been to do so at the detriment of the overall effort being undertaken. Think of NJ as low hanging fruit...

The media in this state is hard left and as such vehemently anti-gun; they are going to have a hard time deciding whether to try to undermine and spin this from the left or to just ignore it and act as though it didn't happen so as not to draw attention to it. To ignore it is also to not lend the suit credibility... This suit is like a hand grenade with the pin pulled out to the leftist, they know what's coming but don't quite know what to do with it...

ChrisJM981 stated "I said I was going to donate to SAF under the impression that they are spearheading this. I feel that is probably not the case & that some concerned citizens of NJ contacted the larger groups to organize a strategy. And I replied "That is absolutely not the case. It is clear that the SAF, ANJRPC and the NJCSD were actively soliciting people that felt they had been wrongfully denied a carry permit a mere two months ago. I also laid out the history leading up to this in my prediction that it would happen. This is part of a national plan to restore the Second Amendment that has been ongoing for many years already." I was making the point that this suit was not driven by individuals seeking out the SAF and ANJRPC to right the wrongs in NJ. This effort is not about even NJ or its carry laws; this is all part of a larger effort by SAF to restore the meaning of the second amendment nationally. This case is a small piece of that complicated puzzle as are Heller, McDonald, Nordyke, and all of the suits that are similar to this one for NJ in 3rd such as 9th, 7th, 4th and 2nd districts.

To which point do you speak?

That is absolutely not the case. It is clear that the SAF, ANJRPC and the NJCSD were actively soliciting people that felt they had been wrongfully denied a carry permit a mere two months ago. I also laid out the history leading up to this in my prediction that it would happen. This is part of a national plan to restore the Second Amendment that has been ongoing for many years already.

This is only the beginning... It has just been so long in coming it seems too surreal to be true. This is going to be a tough fight all the way to the SCOTUS for sure. The AWB and hi-cap issue will be addressed by Heller II and McDonald II most likely before this case is fully litigated.

So this is just the state NICS line then, the federal NICS line is not down on Friday? You gotta love NJ, we are not going to let the feds provide the service free of charge, we are going to do it without the mandate of law, we're going to be closed on days the feds are not and oh yeah btw we are going to charge you a $15 fee for all this inconvenience we provide... Only in NJ.

Hey guys, you know the SAF runs an online store that helps to fund their activities... SAF Store Prices aren't that bad either... There is some nice apparel, it is actually where I robbed the image to make this: We should show some support there as well...

I was all set to renew my NRA membership today. Perhaps I'll Just become a lifetime SAF member...

I'd probably do better for you than I do for myself! I can't hit the lottery for sqaut...

SAF Press release: SAF SUES N.J. OFFICIALS FOR 'DEPRIVATION OF CIVIL RIGHTS' ON PERMIT DENIALS For Immediate Release: 11/22/2010 BELLEVUE, WA – The Second Amendment Foundation today filed suit in U.S. District Court for the District of New Jersey against several New Jersey officials for deprivation of civil rights under color of law. SAF is joined in the lawsuit by the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs, Inc. and six private citizens whose applications for permits to carry have been denied generally on the grounds that they have not shown a “justifiable need.” One of the plaintiffs is a kidnap victim, another is a part-time sheriff’s deputy, a third carries large amounts of cash in his private business and another is a civilian employee of the FBI in New Jersey who is fearful of attack from a radical Islamic fundamentalist group. Plaintiffs are represented by attorneys David D. Jensen and Robert P. Firriolo with the firm of Duane Morris, LLP in Newark. Named as defendants in the case are three Superior Court judges, Philip J. Maenza, Morris County; Rudolph A. Filko, Passaic County and Edward A. Jerejian of Bergen County, plus Col. Rick Fuentes, superintendent of the State Police, Hammonton Police Chief Frank Ingemi and New Jersey Attorney General Paula T. Dow. “Law-abiding New Jersey citizens have been arbitrarily deprived of their ability to defend themselves and their families for years under the state’s horribly-crafted laws,” said SAF Executive Vice President Alan M. Gottlieb. “The law grants uncontrolled discretion to police chiefs and other public officials to deny license applications even in cases where the applicant has shown a clear and present danger exists. “If being a kidnap victim, or part-time law enforcement officer, or the potential target of a known radical group does not clearly demonstrate a justifiable need,” he continued, “the defendants need to explain what would. Do citizens need guns to their heads or knives to their throats before the state considers their need to be justified? “Supreme Court rulings have made it clear that the Second Amendment prohibits states from completely banning the carrying of handguns for self-defense,” Gottlieb said. “Nor may states deny citizens the right to carry handguns in non-sensitive places or deprive them of the right to carry in an arbitrary and capricious manner. That’s what is happening today in New Jersey, and we intend to stop it.” The Second Amendment Foundation (www.saf.org) is the nation's oldest and largest tax-exempt education, research, publishing and legal action group focusing on the Constitutional right and heritage to privately own and possess firearms. Founded in 1974, The Foundation has grown to more than 650,000 members and supporters and conducts many programs designed to better inform the public about the consequences of gun control. SAF has previously funded successful firearms-related suits against the cities of Los Angeles; New Haven, CT; and San Francisco on behalf of American gun owners, a lawsuit against the cities suing gun makers and an amicus brief and fund for the Emerson case holding the Second Amendment as an individual right. -END-

Reading the complaint, looks like SAF and ANJRPC as joint with six plaintiffs... This explains what took so long. Its a good day gentlemen!

ANJRPC SUES TO BRING DOWN NJ'S UNCONSTITUTIONAL HANDGUN CARRY LAW! Today, ANJRPC joined in an historic federal lawsuit challenging provisions of New Jersey law that effectively deny law-abiding citizens the civil right to defend themselves with a firearm outside the home. The suit, brought together with The Second Amendment Foundation and six private citizens, challenges the constitutionality of New Jersey's extreme and subjective "justifiable need” standard for issuance of handgun carry permits – a nearly impossible standard to meet that has all but eliminated the right of self defense with a firearm in the Garden State. A copy of the complaint is available here. "The fundamental right to defend yourself does not evaporate when you walk out your front door,” said ANJRPC President Scott Bach. "The U.S. Supreme Court has recently made it clear that this right belongs to all Americans. This lawsuit will ensure that New Jersey finally stops denying its citizens this basic freedom.” 40 states currently have laws recognizing the right of law abiding citizens to carry a handgun for self defense, 28 of which have been enacted in just the last two decades. Despite the mountain of evidence showing that sustained reductions in violent crime rates result after enactment of these laws, New Jersey has refused to modernize its own laws, instead choosing to imperil its citizens and force them to remain defenseless victims against armed criminals who don't follow the law. "It's no mystery why violent crime rates plummet wherever Right to Carry laws are enacted” said Bach. "Criminals go somewhere else when they think their victims might be armed. When predators can't tell the difference between the sheep and the wolves, the whole flock is safer.” New Jersey's outdated gun laws – including its carry laws – are based on the false premise that the right to keep and bear arms is a privilege to be granted by the state – or not. The U.S. Supreme Court has recently held the exact opposite – that the Second Amendment protects a fundamental individual right belonging to all Americans that cannot be prohibited by state or local governments. One of the plaintiffs in the new lawsuit is a kidnap victim, another is a part-time sheriff's deputy, a third carries large amounts of cash in his private business and another is a civilian employee of a law enforcement agency. The fact that such persons are unable to qualify for a New Jersey carry permit underscores how arbitrary and unreasonable the Garden State's laws are. "New Jersey's carry laws are blatantly unconstitutional,” said Bach. "We intend to change that.” Join The Fight! Support ANJRPC'S Efforts to Restore The Second Amendment in the Garden State.

I think it is more like morons write the laws and they want morons to be the final arbiters of them so they don't get found out for what they are...

DS Arms builds the best FALs in the US. Follow the link to all of SA-58 FAL the models they offer: http://www.dsarms.com/FAL-SA58%20Rifles/products/8/ They also offer the STG-58 which used to be Austrian kits build on US receivers with US barrels, not sure if they still use kits or now make their own parts... http://www.dsarms.com/FAL%20STG58%20Austrian/products/9/ BTW, the FN FAL is banned as a type however the DSA SA-58 and STG-58 has been sold legally in NJ since around '97-'98.

What you can do when you return the gun to the NJ dealer is ask that they transfer the gun to an FFL out of state so your family member can pick it up there. The NJ dealer will most likely do it so they don't have to eat the cost of the weapon but there will be a fee from the out of state dealer to process the transaction, most likely in the order of $50 or so... You would need to use the services of an out of state dealer to transfer the gun anyway if you wanted to do it yourself to comply with federal law as it is against the law for two residents of different states to transfer a weapon to each other without going through at least one FFL... Hope this helps.

I have been shooting since the age of 7-8 years old. Some time in the late '70s my soon to be at the time step-father, a Veitnam vet Marine and police officer, sat me down explained what was what about firearms, took me to the range and gave me one simple rule to follow - do not touch any of the guns without asking him first. Any time I wanted to go to the range he made time for me. So I grew up knowing where the guns were and how to use them but never had any interest, the curiosity was not there. Fast forward to 1993, I get engaged and soon my finance and I go to contract on a new home in Toms River. We close on the home in December 1994 with our wedding date set for October 1995. The plan was for her to live in the house and me to move in after the wedding. In April 1995 I came home with the paperwork for an FID and a purchase permit. She lost it. Ranting that she never had a gun in the house growing up and she was against it bla, bla, bla... At the time she had a two year old miniature dachshund and my reply to her was OK just answer this: It is 3AM, you just heard a loud crash downstairs, you picked up the phone and it is dead, you hear a 6'2" (*insert you derogatory preference here*) climbing up the stairs; what are you and your weiner dog going to do about it? Answer the question and I'll sell the gun! Never did get that answer...

Since this is most likely the state's way to attempt to reassert the "banned as types" language it would be nice to see IO and the NRA partner up with Auto Ordnance since they have standing as well with the whole M1 carbine thing a few months back... If they pull this off without a challenge all of the banned as types guns (clones of AKs, M14s, HK-91s, FALs, Sig 556s, AR-180Bs) will be open for arbitrary prosecution. It is somewhat vital to take a stand on this if that be the case...

I have slowly begun to expose my kids to Eddie Eagle. Currently they are 3 and 5. Not that big of a deal currently as everything I own is either locked up or boxed in the attic. I figure a few more years before I take the big one out shooting with a BB gun and by the time they are each 9 I will take them shooting with the Crickets I bought for each of them on their first birthdays (they don't know they exist yet but it sure rilled up my wife when I bought them ). I think a free resource that provides guidence and materials for adults to assist them with their teaching firearms respect would be a very good thing.

I never said 2C:39 and 2C:58 were going away before the end of the year... I said there would be a federal challenge to them before the end of the year... Nothing will happen to effect a change for years as these cases wind through the system. NJ will not go down quietly, the political elite and ruling class are indeed smug in their distain for gun rights and will kick and scream I'm sure. I even said in a previous post "The trick now is to get these cases up to the top before our Marxist in Chief can further corrupt the SCOTUS. All you need is one more Marxist on the bench to flip the 5-4 majority against the Constitution and we will be twisting in the wind for a decade.".

I understand, nobody is more pessimistic than I except maybe my wife... You have heard of Heller and McDonald I assume. They did not just appear out of thin air, they were the culmination of many years and even many more cases the took place in a calculated plan. They were only the best cases out of numerous other circuit court cases that made it to the SCOTUS. Think of them as a 1 - 2 punch Heller is the left lead and McDonald is the right cross. Now that the Second Amendment has been held as an individual civil right and has been incorporated against the states the fun begins. The 1 - 2 punch has dealth with the Keep part of Keep and Bear Arms the next logical step is to deal with the Bear part... This is not all happening by some sheer coincidence this is a well thought out and coordinated effort to attack the laws in states such as New Jersy that are used to deprive people like you and me our rights. I am telling you they have already said they were looking for candidates in NJ publicly it is only a matter of time... Mark my words :icon_exclaim:

There was a satirical web site up about 10 years ago called gunsforkids.com that had a whole bunch of bliss-ninnies roaring. It was setup as an online gun store targeted at children with a scrolling real time comment section on the front page set up to receive "testimonials". It was hysterical to read some of the moronic comments people would leave actually thinking the site was for real. If you look around you can still find some of the archived boards at the time where people talked about some of the details of the site. It was quite funny. Even made the national news before the it went away... One of the archived boards commenting on it can be found here: Forum Topic: Guns For Kids! 8/14/01 02:59 AM

And which one would you be, Siskel or Ebert? I have laid out the events as I see them unfolding for everyone's review. What would be your astutely informed observations of the situation as it is currently unfolding? I'm interested in hearing them there facts that I don't have...

While it is a shame what has happened to him that is a somewhat recent event. What I am talking about is a coordinated multi-state legal effort that has been in the planning for more than a decade and the execution of which has been ongoing for the last several years. That effort will inevitably render moot the types of unconstitutional laws which this state used to persecute Brian for exercising his right to own firearms. What I am looking at is a big picture effort. The bulk of the injustice done to Brian will right itself shortly when his case is appealed. In the short term I do not see him overcoming the hi-cap magazine charges which still hold the weight of a third degree crime. That may get straightened out once Heller II is resolved as it addresses assault weapons and magazine capacities as weapons "commonly in use" and thus protected under the second amendment... I am confident better times are ahead of NJ gun owners.

You gotta love a state that needs to put pictures in its statutes in order to describe what its laws really mean... That state can't implode fast enogh as far as I am concerned. Jerry Brown is the poster child for an insolvent California and they just elected him Governor again... Go Jerry, go!