kman

If you don't want to be afraid every single time you chamber a round or load a magazine with more than one round, then take it to a gunsmith and make sure the damn thing is working properly. Dremel plus fire control components plus inexperience equals problem. This is not an area you want to proceed by trial and error.

Definitely get the firing pin channel cleaned, or disassemble the bolt yourself and clean the firing pin and the channel it is in well, because if it doubles now due to a gunked up firing pin channel, the next step is for it to not just double but to fire the whole magazine uncontrolled and without you being able to stop it, not to mention a round firing out of battery and causing real damage. Once you get the thing perfectly clean, put only very very light oil in there, like rem oil. No grease, nothing that will get gunky or sticky. This happens more often on SKS rifles but on any rifle it could happen.

You got your answer, and basically it is up to you. You are fully informed, which is all I ever set out to do. Some people here get off on personal attacks and insults, and making things personal when we are having a discussion - even people who should know better - even people who are moderators on this forum for goodness sake (vlad) and should know how to control themselves. Doesn't matter to me - not my forum - I don't decide who is a moderator around here. You just like anyone else are free to make your own decision.

Tough crowd here! This NJGF forum sure ain't for the faint hearted.

Until the law on what "loaded" means is clarified by a court interpretation, I will consider it something that might be a problem. Because anything short of that is just someone's opinion. You are absolutely convinced you are right, and there's no shaking you from it. Fine by me. You are entitled to your opinion. You say cops don't think loaded magazines are a problem? Glad to hear it. Don't know if every cop thinks that way, but I'd be happy if that was the case. Ever ask a prosecutor? They tend to like vague laws they can argue wide interpretations of. Their opinion on gun laws probably doesn't mesh well with yours or mine. My opinion? I think all these laws are unconstitutional and believe they should be interpreted very narrowly to the extent they aren't thrown out entirely. But that's just my opinion and my opinion doesn't count for anything because I am not elected or appointed and I don't have a badge. You say gun dealers say loaded magazines are OK? Great - except that who cares what they say? They also told me it would be no problem to buy hollow point ammunition from them and then go shopping the rest of the day instead of going directly home. So their opinion on gun law is ridiculous. I head a gun dealer tell someone in NJ that they could bring a handgun into NY if they put it in the trunk - that's serious jail time in NY! I had a gun dealer in NJ tell me that you could go wherever you want with a handgun in the trunk. Gun dealers are awful sources of advice. Enjoy your opinion!

I'm not interested in winning an argument. What's the prize? People make fun of you? There's no winning here. All that I am concerned about, is someone on this forum reads that charged magazines are OK, relies on that information, puts his handgun in a range bag with charged magazines, drives to the range, gets pulled over, and suddenly has his life ruined by the criminal justice machine we have here in this state. And it seems like people here are more interested in "winning arguments" than having a constructive discussion about what is legal, what isn't legal, and what might or might not be legal. I set out very clearly how it could be a problem. If you want to go ahead and do it anyway, go right ahead, but I don't think it is right to be putting other people at risk by telling them that it is absolutely positively 100% legal no problem. They ought at least know that there is a legal risk involved.

Single bullet next to a handgun mean a loaded gun? Could be, although that would be a real stretch, I doubt it, but always the outside chance a judge finds it to be. Without a definition as to what "loaded" means, you can't tell. In New York it would absolutely be, what they consider to be loaded is very very broad. I doubt that it would go that far in NJ. What if it was a Contender single shot handgun? Then more likely simply because no magazine is required, although still really can't tell without a definition, very unlikely it would be though. So you got the range from one bullet next to a gun, to a charged 15 round magazine next to a glock, to a charged 15 round magazine in the glock with an empty chamber, to a charged 15 round magazine in the glock with a round chambered. Based on the state you are in, the threshold at which the law considers the above glock example to be loaded would be different. In some states, a gun isn't loaded unless a round is chambered. Some states, a gun is loaded if a charged magazine is inserted and the chamber is empty. Some states, a gun is loaded if a charged magazine is in proximity to the gun ready to be fed into it. Some would consider that to be not loaded. In New Jersey? Big question mark. All I am saying. I really don't want to be arguing with you, I like your other posts, have nothing to gain from arguing with you, don't enjoy people making fun of me like I am some sort of idiot. I just don't like it when I see people giving advice that something is no problem whatsoever, when it is really not that simple and could get you into big trouble. That's the point of forums like this, learning something. Even something you don't want to hear.

I never said a loaded mag is a loaded gun. In fact I said that a loaded mag is absolutely legal. I said you put a loaded magazine in proximity to a gun, and THAT GUN might be considered to be a LOADED GUN. No point continuing to discuss something with someone who is not precise with his language. This thread might as well be locked, I don't see how there is anything more to say.

That's right, all I am saying is COULD be a problem. You are saying absolutely, positively, no way on earth could a loaded magazine be a problem in this state. And that is really encouraging people to take a risk. I am saying that it could very easily be a problem here, and you could very easily be under arrest, and have that arrest stick, and that is why Evan Nappen himself said it could be a problem. We are talking about a felony here - serious problems. So acknowledging the possibility of it being a problem is the smart thing to do here.

+1

Ok, here's a test: Take your favorite pistol, fill the magazine full of FMJ. Put the pistol in a soft case, the full magazine right in that soft case next to the pistol. No trigger lock. Put the soft case on the passenger seat of your car. Make sure the soft case has a Glock logo or something like that on it so it's recognizable as a gun case. Drive to the range in Jersey City, stop and ask a police officer for directions, make sure he sees what is on your passenger seat. Legal right? Unloaded (or at least you HOPE it would be considered unloaded), cased, on the way to the range. No problem, right? Show him the mag with all that ammo in it if he asks, all ready to be inserted and made ready to fire. If you are willing to do that, then you have the courage of your conviction. I don't push my luck.

Speed loaders with ammunition in them that are in proximity to an empty revolver (for instance, in the same bag) might very well lead a judge to conclude that the revolver was loaded, as in NY "loaded" includes a situation where a firearm is in proximity to ammunition and could be made ready to fire quickly. And if the revolver was found to be loaded, then your travel exemption is blown and you'd be committing a felony in NJ by being in possession of it. That's what happened to the guy in New Hampshire. Loaded garand clips aren't illegal, as I said before it's not the magazine (or clip) that is the problem. It is when it is near the gun, the gun might be considered to be loaded, and if it is considered to be loaded, your travel exemption is blown. A loaded garand clip in a gun case that has a M1 Garand in it - is that a loaded M1 Garand? In NY and PA it wouldn't be, because the laws we are discussing in those states definining what "loaded" means only apply to pistols and revolvers. In NJ, possession of a loaded rifle outside of home, range or hunting is a felony, so I'd be concerned having the garand clips charged and in the same case as a Garand. You take a risk if you have that. A car with no M1 Garand in it, and three thousand rounds of ammo in enblocs? No problem in NJ. Can't be a loaded rifle if there's no rifle! A car with a M1 Garand in the trunk, and a lot of ammo in enblocs in the back seat? Probably not a problem - how can you say the gun is loaded when you have to take the stuff out of the back seat, open the trunk, open a case, etc... Holding a M1 Garand in one hand, and a charged enbloc in another? Now you are really pushing it. A judge in NJ could rule that the M1 Garand was loaded, just as New Hampshire found that Mr. Dor's pistol was loaded (until he appealed his conviction), because the loaded magazine was right there and ready to put in.

How do you know that unloaded means "not charged with ammo"? You a judge? Even if you were a judge, there's more than one judge. The statute doesn't say what it means, which means the judge assigned to the case decides what it means. Not you. The judge. The more vague and broad the law, the more room for interpretation a judge has. And since there is nothing in the statute saying what "loaded" means in this state, it could be given any number of plausible meanings. That is how it works in the court house, which is why you don't want to get dragged into one.

http://www.courts.state.nh.us/supreme/opinions/2013/2013057dor.pdf This is the New Hampshire case I referred to earlier. In the decision, the NH surpreme court looked to the laws of NY, PA, and Ohio statutes, as well as NY and California case law that interpreted what is required for a firearm to be considered loaded for legal purposes. When a statute is very specific and clear on its application, then you don't need to interpret - for instance NJ is very clear on open carry without a permit being illegal - it is banned outright by statute - so that it is legal in PA is completely irrelevant. Since NJ statute doesn't say what "loaded" means, in the process of interpretation they will look to what other states consider "loaded" to be. NH looked at NY, PA and Ohio law and decided not to go along with what those states did. My point is you are giving reckless advice here, and someone might find themselves under arrest if they take your word that having loaded mags with unloaded guns in the car is no problem. It could be a very big problem because it might be found to be loaded, and once it is found to be loaded, possession in transit is a felony.

I'm going to say it one more time, just to make sure it is understood: FMJ ammunition in your car - LEGAL Magazine that accepts 15 or less rounds in your car - LEGAL Magazine that accepts 15 or less rounds, that is filled with FMJ ammunition in your car - LEGAL Put a handgun that would accept the magazine, next to that magazine filled with ammunition. Is the firearm loaded? Pennsylvania: LOADED FIREARM per statute that states so explicitly New York: LOADED FIREARM per statute that states so explicitly New Jersey: UNKNOWN. Statute bans loaded firearms, statute doesn't say specifically what loaded means or doesn't mean. If a statute bans something, and doesn't go into particulars, then that's for the court to interpret, I.E. what the judge thinks the law should be. Judges think about it. Judges consider what interpretations other states have given to similar laws. And when a NJ judge decides what "loaded" means, you think they are going to cut a gun owner some slack? You think pointing to a dictionary is going to convince a NJ judge that a handgun near a loaded magazine isn't loaded, when you can put the magazine in and rack a round into the chamber in the space of one second and be ready to shoot? A guy in New Hampshire had to go all the way to his state's supreme court to win his freedom back. You think NJ would have cut him some slack?

That's all great, fantastic set of laws you set out above to establish that a loaded magazine, in and of itself, is not illegal. Nobody ever said that it is. It is the loaded magazine in close proximity to the firearm, which can lead to a legal determination that the firearm is loaded - THAT is the problem. All the law you set forth above still doesn't get around that NJ doesn't define what "loaded firearm" means, and many states have determined that "loaded firearm" includes a firearm with a loaded magazine in close proximity. Including every state that borders NJ. In NY, a firearm that has no ammunition inside it, but is in close proximity to a loaded magazine, is considered to be a loaded firearm under the law. In PA, a firearm that has no ammunition inside it, but is in close proximity to a loaded magazine, such as in the same bag, is considered to be a loaded firearm under the law. NJ doesn't even define what "loaded" means. Which means that the judges can pretty much interpret it how they want, and they are going to look to other state laws as a guide. Given the above, how can you say, with certainty, that in NJ a firearm that has no ammunition inside it, but is in close proximity to a loaded magazine, is not considered to be a loaded firearm? You can't say that. NJ's statute is wide open on this. All adjacent states would consider it loaded.

I don't know why people here keep saying that loaded mags are A-OK in NJ, like it is settled. It is not. Of all places, New Hampshire, a guy recently had to go all the way to the NH Supreme Court to get himself out of a conviction for precisely that - unloaded gun, loaded magazine. http://www.guns.com/2013/08/15/charges-for-nh-man-carrying-loaded-gun-dropped-after-court-defines-loaded-as-a-gun-with-bullets-in-it/ If in New Hampshire it takes a state supreme court decision to bail you out, how do you think the outcome will be here? OF COURSE it is not the charged magazine that you will be convicted for, it is the determination that the gun that you have along with the charged magazine is loaded, even if the magazine is not inserted into the gun. Surprisingly, one of the people posting here who is absolutely certain that loaded magazines are OK in NJ, and that anyone who says otherwise is ignorant of the law - this guy lives in PA - a state where precisely that is against the law without a permit. So if PA explicitly says that loaded magazine in the same bag as unloaded gun is loaded gun and illegal without a permit, what do you think the NJ court will think, when the court is free to interpret NJ law in any way it wants? What a cop says on this makes no difference. There are hundreds of cops who will say hollow points are absolutely illegal all the time. Do we risk conviction over a $5 bet resolved by a police officer's off the cuff answer on a legal question that was asked years ago? If Evan Nappen says it's best to avoid, then it is best to avoid. Now if you have the handgun in the trunk and the loaded magazine in the passenger compartment, then probably that is OK because it is real far away. Probably. Who knows? What if the loaded mag is in one bag and the gun in another bag in the trunk? What if you forgot to separate them and they are in the same bag? You don't mind a trip through the criminal justice system, right?

Evan Nappen filed a successful suit in federal court a while back that got magazine size restrictions in NJ knocked out to the extent they could apply to airguns. There's some federal statute that prevents states from interfering with BB gun sales that he used as the basis of his case. So an airgun is a gun as far as NJ is concerned and therefore must be transported as per exemptions or for air rifles, with a FPID. Magazine capacity however, from what I recall, is not a problem.

Class? No class? Who cares? We will thank our lucky stars when it just comes down to taking some class. One question I do have is whether anyone knows anything about the "National Association for Gun Rights". Because the guy who wrote the article is the "Press Secretary" for the National Association for Gun Rights, and in the article he said the following: The organization working hardest to restore and protect the people’s liberties throughout New Jersey is the National Association for Gun Rights. NAGR works on the front lines of the gun rights fight in New Jersey and stands behind the notion that America is still the land of free people. Anyone hear of this organization? Their website looks good but anyone can make a nice website. Are these guys legit? Have they actually done anything in NJ, like lobbying or outreach or anything?

There is the ANJRPC as a statewide political advocacy organization, and there's the Cherry Ridge Range which operates as a shooting club for people within roughly an hour's drive - basically the north third of the state. The problem here is that the Cherry Ridge Range and the ANJRPC are run by the same organization. If the Cherry Ridge Range was its own club, and elected leadership by vote of club members only, and not ANJRPC members throughout the state, then members would have a full say in how the club is run and things would change pretty quick. Instead as things currently are, ANJRPC runs Cherry Ridge Range. Probably only 1/3 of the members of the ANJRPC are even close enough to use the Cherry Ridge Range, and of those probably less than half actually pay for range privileges. As far as I know, range members don't get to vote on how the range is run, the range is run by the ANJRPC itself, whose membership mostly consists of people who don't live near the range and don't use it. Which means there is no accoutability. The range officers could be completely mean to everyone, and it doesn't matter because only a small fraction of ANJRPC members are actually members of the Cherry Ridge Range and in a position to make range management an issue during elections of ANJRPC directors. Complaints about how the range work don't really matter when probably only one out of ever six voting members of the organization use the range. Probably even less than that. Thus, the Cherry Ridge Range is essentially run by non-members. If you are a member of the Cherry Ridge Range, your vote on how the range operates, who is put in charge of it, is drowned out by probably at least five votes of other ANJRPC members who don't use the range and don't care one bit about how it is run. There is a fundamental problem in the way that the range is managed - if the people running the range were elected solely by the membership of the range (as opposed to appointed by the board that runs the ANJRPC) then the range would be run of, by and for range members - just like the other ranges such as Central Jersey, Easton Fish and Game, etc. With such a disconnect between range membership by locals (within one hour of the range) and overall control of the range by the ANJRPC (run by statewide election of board of directors), there is no way that range members have any real say in how the range is run, and that is the ultimate reason why the range can be run so poorly and nothing changes.

How much is it to join? For some reason the website doesn't say it anywhere.

If a firearm doesn't fire is it still a firearm? Yes. Whether it functions is irrelevant. A frame lacking a barrel is still a firearm as far as the law is concerned. Thus you are taking a risk if you assume that a bayonet lug that doesn't work well isn't a bayonet lug. It is a bayonet lug. Just one that doesn't work well. Removing it means exactly that-removal. So it is not there. Because if it is there you are a felon. Reducing the quality of its operation by partially removing pieces of it dies not make it cease to exist. If a bayonet can slide into it, you have a bayonet lug. That the bayonet wont stay on just demonstrates a broken or worn out or defective bayonet lug in need of repair. A defective bayonet lug will yield a conviction just as quick as one that is in good order. The courts don't care if it works or not, they care that it is there. It does not matter how ridiculous the law is, it will be enforced in this state as written, to the extent it is not twisted to be even more draconian. Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

To GSD, could you tell us a bit more about the process to cerakote a firearm? Is it thick enough to interfere with threads on, for instance, rifle receivers, or are the screw holes plugged with wax when you coat a rifle? Or is it thin enough to coat the threads and on internal parts too? How long does it take to do? Will it coat moving parts (like, for instance, the bearing surfaces on the bolt of a bolt action rifle, etc)? Are the interior parts of a gun (aside from the barrel and chamber) coated as well, or is it only the exterior surface?

I have this sneaking suspicion that very few of the handguns purchased in Newark and Camden are registered, or have any paperwork filled out whatsoever!

When is a flash hider not a flash hider? When is a bayonet lug not a bayonet lug? How many angels fit on the head of a pin? All questions that police, prosecutors and various courts can answer any way that they want to because they are ridiculous questions - only that the first two can get you into prison if you get it wrong, whereas the third really has no penalty for being incorrect. Why take a chance? Especially in a state that started calling pellet rifles "assault weapons" because they have "silencers" on them. Otherwise, looks really nice! I'd get rid of the evil features and enjoy it.