AVB-AMG

We were at the Eagles vs. Bills game yesterday in Philly. Amazing weather for December 13th!!! Many fans in tee shirts and shorts. I am an Eagles fan and my wife is from Buffalo and a life-long Bills fan. I think we saw as many Eagles fans wearing Eagles McCoy jersey's as we saw Bills fans wearing Bills McCoy jerseys. Looks like the Eagles are finally getting their act together, while the Bills shot themselves in the foot with too many penalties. All in all, a fun afternoon! AVB-AMG

Rob0115 & lunker: Thank you.... I am very pleased with this choice. I shot some other beautiful, low production, finely crafted shotguns in the same price range but decided that the Beretta fit me the best. I can empathize with you guys as to why you both either bought or are considering a Beretta. While it is an expensive gun I did get what I consider a good deal. But accessorizing for sporting clays also can add up... I now will be in my thrifty mode for the next 4-6 months as I pay down my c.c. bill. AVB-AMG

Rob0115: I have been very impressed with the Griffin & Howe Shooting School in Andover, NJ. While it is not inexpensive it really is a first-class operation and their sporting clay set up is like a top-notch golf club, but for shotguns / sporting clays. I have taken a number of sporting clay lessons there, where I have been able to "test drive" a number of shotguns from their wide selection. Shooting there this past fall with the trees leaves changing colors, was a spectacular background in temperate weather conditions, complimenting the very helpful one-on-one instruction that I really benefited from. I have learned much from them and plan to take some additional instruction as my time (and finances) allow. Based on this, as well as some here have suggested, I have decided to splurge, going beyond my original budget for a shotgun to purchase a high-quality gun. I have recently purchased a new: Beretta 692 Sporting O/U 12-gauge shotgun (30" barrel). It has a light natural stained Turkish walnut stock and fore end. Here is a link to this model featured on the Beretta web site: http://www.beretta.com/en-us/692/#Main This was an early Christmas present to myself and my credit card now has a sizable balance that will take a number of months to pay off... I realized that I will be using this shotgun approximately 80% of the time for sporting clays and 10% for Trap and 10% for Skeet. Most importantly, as determined by others more proficient and knowledgeable about these things than me, the gun fits me, for the most part. If I so desire, with minor modification it can be made even better, but that will be done after I have had more time shooting it. I am very impressed with the quality fit and finish and I have been pretty accurate with it so far, something that I expect will improve with some more instruction and much more practice... I had read online that some folks had some issues with the extractors on the 692's, but that was with some of the earlier production models and that Beretta has tweaked them to address the issue and that they now work as intended. At the G&H Shooting School, they have over 10,000 shots through a number of these guns without any malfunction issues, so that is reassuring to me. I am sure that this shotgun, with proper cleaning and care, will last me for as long as I am shooting. AVB-AMG

I am a pretty good shot but this is more likely what that Porsche would look like after it was my turn shooting:

Old Glock Guy: Yes that looks like fun, silly, dangerous and what-the-heck.... a wonderful evolution of shooting clays....! But as a devout Mercedes-Benz AMG and BMW M-Series fan, I have to reference this old classic Porsche print advertisement:

I guess I should consider myself lucky.... This past Sunday, 12/06, I placed an order online for some add'l. ammo. from MidwayUSA located in Columbia, MO. and I received a text message that is was delivered via UPS to my NJ home earlier this afternoon, 12/10, four days later, sooner than I had expected. I did not elect to pay additional funds for expedited delivery either. Like many others, I was concerned that President Obama's address to the nation this past Sunday evening would possibly include some direct or indirect statement that he was going to seek or impose further restrictions on the sale of ammunition to the public. Specifically the calibers uses by the two Islamic Terrorists in the San Bernardino, CA attack. Therefore, I placed an order before his speech, just in case.... Next week, the full week before the Christmas holiday, is traditionally the busiest week for UPS, FedEX and the USPS for parcel deliveries with the highest volume of packages. This year will most likely set a new record as more and more people are doing much of their Christmas shopping online. AVB-AMG

Tfunge: As I understand it, Remington produced the Model 3200 over/under shotgun in a number of variants from 1974 through 1983, starting at around $450 and by the end of the model run in 1983 could run as high as $1,000. Remington offered variations of this model that changed each year either in features, finishes or barrel lengths. Many folks considered it an excellent trap gun, but it is a big and heavy gun and much bigger and heavier than a sporting or sporting clays gun. There was a class action lawsuit, (referred to as the Garza lawsuit), that was brought against Remington back in the late 1980’s. The lawsuit claimed that Remington shotgun barrels used for Models 1100, 1187, 870 and 3200 shotguns were made of an inferior grade of steel. Remington was found guilty and they paid a prorated settlement to people who wanted to jump onto the suit. Remington did a recall and refitted some guns. Today, I understand that if you have a 3200 O/U that was not factory refitted, it may possibly cost around $700-$800, plus shipping and handling $100.00 to have the gun refitted and there's only several gunsmiths that will do the work. Since it is such a heavy gun, along with the manufacturing issues, I would not consider purchasing one. Also, my preference is to buy a new shotgun, to get the manufacturer's warranty. AVB-AMG

I just voted yes. Currently at 97.95% in favor of more people in NJ carrying. I agree with DirtyDigz that these easy online polls are interesting to far more important task is for all of us eligible voter to go out and vote during ALL elections, so our voices and preferences are heard and recorded. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

fishnet: I feel the same as you in that scenario.... AVB-AMG

Krdshrk: Damn! With all those chains and wires it looks like that could be some new form of a ballistic masochistic sport…. AVB-AMG

ALAN553 Yes, you make a good point that many, if not most suicides are motivated by some form of mental illness. Those who suffer from mental illness are not able to think clearly and rationally. Depression is a mental illness and is a terrible disease that is difficult to diagnose and treat, because usually the first steps must be made from the depressed person seeking help. Many of these people don't take these first steps and can hide their symptoms from everyone they know. But that does not mean that the act of suicide is not selfish. Even recognizing and accepting your point, I still believe that suicide IS a selfish act for a number of valid reasons. In some ways suicide is the most selfish act that someone can ever commit. It is a universal declaration that you choose to live and die on your own terms and that your destiny lies wholly in your own hands, regardless of what others may think. Allow me to elaborate with the following related reasons and explanations: 1. Suicide is a very selfish thing to do, but it's not selfish the way normal people are described as selfish. Blatantly ignoring the needs of others while only fulfilling your own needs is what normal selfish people do all the time. But a suicidal person is sick and can't help but be completely absorbed in their pain and suffering. Mentally, they have lost that battle against their pain, as it has completely consumed their mind. While they may think they are doing others a favor by killing themselves, which is not selfish, in the end, actually doing it is. Because by definition, being selfish means to only tend to your own needs and not the needs of others. Suicide IS selfish. Wanting someone to stay alive for you is ALSO selfish. Almost everything we do in life is selfish but that doesn't make it wrong. Selfish isn't a bad thing. It's just how we humans are. 2. No matter what someone is going through, committing or attempting to commit suicide requires that the person in question has decided-- not contemplated the possibility of or anything abstract, but decided-- that their feelings trump the feelings of those around them. That they are going to knowingly and voluntarily cause harm to other people in an attempt to make things better for themselves. Therefore, suicide is a selfish act because every action you take is a selfish one. There are no selfless actions because all actions are taken in the context of yourself. One commits suicide because you are sad or lonely or you hurt. You, you, you. It's all about you. It's your life, your pain, your decision. This is why suicide is selfish. 3. Suicide is the highest form of self-love. While commonly people assume it is because people hate themselves/their lives, etc., the truth is people who commit suicide love themselves above all else. Their plight is more important to them than anything else in existence, their troubles so insurmountable and terrible that they must be dealt with in the most extreme fashion with total disregard to life. In their moment they are the most important person on earth, they must decide to remove themselves from living, they give themselves control over something that the rest of us try and ignore and delay. If they loved something or anything more than they loved themselves they would have something to live for, but by deduction if they have nothing external to love they must internally love themselves the most. That's selfish. 4. Looking up the definition of “selfish” in the dictionary reveals that it means to "Having or showing concern only for yourself and not for the needs or feelings of other people." and/or “excessively and exclusively being concerned with oneself and concentrating on one's own well-being without regard for others.” From this definition and forgetting about all the other connotations associated with the word, those who commit suicide are completely absorbed in their own problems and can't move past them. They cannot find a reason to live. Some suicides are due to someone thinking that their loved ones would be better off without them, but it doesn't make it any less selfish, because they are so self-absorbed they can't see that this simply isn't true.

As an Architect currently working in construction management, I read this online article today about a recently completed new shooting range project in Toronto, Canada and thought some NJGF members would find it interesting. It is the Pan American Games Shooting Range in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, designed by a German architectural firm. IMHO, it is a very interesting and creative solution to the shooting range program, working with a very limited budget. The project description narrative and photos of the completed facility can be found at this web link: http://www.world-architects.com/en/projects/51756_Pan_American_Games_Shooting_Range AVB-AMG

Business is finally picking up again, but we're not sticking around. That’s the message respondents sent loud and clear in a recent New Jersey Business & Industry Association survey released today, Dec. 1, 2015, as the economic optimism expressed by most companies in New Jersey was tempered by long-term plans to leave the state. NJBIA CEO and President Michele Siekerka said. “The issue is people are not planning to domicile here in their retirement and they are not looking to expand their businesses here in the future.” Respondents cited health benefit costs, the overall cost of doing business and property taxes as their top three concerns about expanding in the state. In addition, 67% of those surveyed said they make business decisions based on estate and inheritance tax implications. FYI - Here is a link to the full article on NJBIZ.com: http://www.njbiz.com/article/20151201/NJBIZ01/151209971/njbia-survey-finds-shortterm-optimism-but-longterm-plans-to-leave?utm_source=NJBIZ+Daily&utm_medium=Email&utm_term=http%3a%2f%2fwww.njbiz.com%2farticle%2f20151201%2fNJBIZ01%2f151209971%2fnjbia-survey-finds-shortterm-optimism-but-longterm-plans-to-leave&utm_campaign=The+Daily%3a+NJBIA+survey+finds+short-term+optimism%2c+but+long-term+plans+to+leave

Rob0115: I am also a member at the Gun For Hire / Woodland Park Range and that is not my understanding... I just checked GFH's web site and to be clear here is what they say, (I did a cut and paste....): AVB-AMG "What do I need to shoot? Each person MUST come with a Valid Government issued I.D. (examples: Driver’s License, Passport, etc.). Any Male coming to the Range alone to rent a firearm MUST have either a Firearms Identification Card (F.I.D.) or come in with a companion. Any Female coming to the Range to rent a firearm can come alone, without a Firearms Identification Card or a companion if they choose to. We have everything you need to enjoy your time at our range. What do I need to do when I get there? Please STOP at our Concierge Desk. We have some paperwork every NEW Person to the Range MUST fill out before you can continue. We will then take your photo and confirm your Government issued I.D. (This step is for EVERY First Time individual visiting the Range. You only have to do this for the First Visit). Each individual must have identification with them. How does it work? Once signed in with our Concierge, please make your way to the Retail area. The Retail area has two lines: Members Only (“Rapid Fire” line) and Non-Members (which is our “First Shots” line at the right side of the Retail area). One of our Professionals will guide you through your options of Training, Port Time, Eye and Ear Protection, Targets, and Firearm Rental choices if necessary. We will ask to hold an I.D. while our rental guns are in use. I.D.’s will be returned upon the return of our rentals. If I am New to shooting, have never properly shot a firearm before or it has been a while since my last experience and I could use some proper instruction, will you teach me? Yes. Here at Gun For Hire we are all about firearm safety and proper handling of firearms. Please let us know at the register if you are a New Shooter or Inexperienced. You MUST take our 15 Minute Intro course. (Video games, Shooting in to the Woods and the Boardwalk doesn’t count!)"

Apparently, this is the second such most unfortunate suicide at RTSP in the past 2+ months. At that time, many of us added our thoughts and expressions of shock, sadness, condolences and support for RTSP in a dedicated thread pertaining to that incident. FYI – in an attempt to remind others and to reduce speculation, here is the quote from Ofc. Peter J. Miscia (Ret.), President, Law Enforcement Liaison / RTSP, (screen name RTSP1). from that thread titled “Possible Suicide at RTSP”. (post #81 from Sept. 25, 2015). “I appreciate all of the comments and suggestions as it relates to this topic and I agree with the majority of you especially as it relates to the FID card being the linchpin to preventing suicides. The truth is that any well motivated individual with a loaded firearm, that is willing to do harm to himself, will not and cannot be stopped. That said, and in keeping with playing the ODDS on what the National average is for suicidal individuals at gun ranges, it is RTSP's intention to implement the following procedure: · No lone, first time, shooters are allowed to rent firearms, regardless of whether or not they have an FID card or not. Exception: Active and Retired LEO with a State carrying card. · If a person comes in with a valid permit to purchase (P2P) a handgun and wants to “test drive” a rental, we have created a new product "P2P Test Drive” that includes 30 minutes of range time, up to two rental firearms and an RSO in the port the entire time. · All shooters must be at least 21 years old to RENT a handgun or be accompanied by someone, in the same port, who is at least 21 years of age. · Individuals who are at least 18 years of age, but under 21 years of age can only rent rifles if they are accompanied, in the same port, by someone who is 21 or older. I agree that this is a band aid on a hemorrhage, but we as a company would be remiss if we did nothing. Rentals are a large part of the revenue of the company and more importantly, a convenience to customers that are looking for new firearms. Lest we forget that there is no real solution to the mental health crisis that is abound in this Country, we just have to do all WE can do to keep ourselves and our customers safe and secure” For what it is worth, once again, I want to express my shock and sadness regarding the news of this most unfortunate recent event. As I believe most of us understand, suicide will never go away and it is a shame that a disturbed individual, regardless of whether or not they are a LEO or a repeat customer, chooses to attempt or succeed in this sad selfish act in a public forum surrounded by many other innocent people, whether it is a gun range or other public and populated venue. They expose other innocent bystanders to witness their horrible desperate act, as well as potentially putting those people in physical harm’s way. The stark factual statistics show that for the past several years in the USA, there have been approximately 31,000+ deaths via guns per year, with about one-third being homicides and two-thirds being suicides. For people who try to end their lives with a gun, they are successful in approx. 85% of the time and the majority of these people are white males. (This factual information is from the Center for Disease Control (CDC's) web-based Injury Statistics Query and Reporting System, (WISQARS), which is an interactive, online database that provides fatal and nonfatal injury, violent death, and cost of injury data from a variety of trusted sources, along with the National Violent Death Reporting System, both of which use data compiled that is around 2-3 years old). As a member of RTSP, along with my wife, we have the highest regard and respect for everyone at RTSP, from the ownership partners, management, RSO’s, sales, training and gunsmith staff. We understand that the process and procedures that RTSP and other gun ranges have put into effect and will possibly modify, in an attempt to reduce the chances for this type of incident of being repeated, are the “cost” of doing business. We will certainly abide by whatever additional rules and regulations they institute to attempt to avoid a repeat or similar incident in the future. While some may find these new rules inconvenient it is their business to run as they see fit, abiding by ever more intrusive insurance requirements. Everyone at RTSP has our sincere condolences and best wishes on dealing with the aftermath of this tragic event. AVB-AMG

I originally posted this in another thread and realize that it is more appropriately located here. I have now finished reading (listening to the audio book versions) of: - Lights Out: A Cyberattack, a Nation Unprepared, Surviving the Aftermath by Ted Kopple https://www.amazon.com/Lights-Out-Cyberattack-Unprepared-Surviving/dp/0553419986/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1479531630&sr=8-3&keywords=Lights+out - One Second After by William R. Forstchen https://www.amazon.com/Second-After-John-Matherson-Novel/dp/0765356864/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1479531671&sr=8-1&keywords=One+Second+After -One Year After: A Novel by William R. Forstchen https://www.amazon.com/One-Year-After-Matherson-Novel/dp/0765376717/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1479531671&sr=8-2&keywords=One+Second+After My synopsis: Very, very sobering and depressing…. The first is a “what if” scenario of the loss of electric power regionally or even nationally, while the last two are fictionalized novels about the aftermath of an electric magnetic pulse (EMP) caused by multiple nuclear warheads being detonated at a high altitude over the continental United States. All three present a very sobering, logical, feasible and frightening vision of how our fellow Americans would act and react under such circumstances over a period of several days, weeks, months and finally two years later. It is not an encouraging story line and very alarming due to the realization that such an event not only could happen, but may possibly happen in our life time. I know I am not alone here in my frustration with how our American society and culture has devolved over the past 30-40 years. How the choices of our elected leaders have squandered tax payers money and ignored more important and vital issues. As well as how our elected officials may possibly be aware of many of these important issues of vulnerability and exposure, but choose to ignore them and do nothing constructive. or selfishly just pursue avenues for their own self-interest. Looking to our government or commercial private industry to take steps to prevent the adverse effects of an EMP attack, is most likely not realistic. This may sound fatalistic, but I believe that the vast majority of American’s today are clueless about what could happen and may happen and have chosen to be ignorant. They are just satisfied to spend their free time when not working to be entertained and, like sheep, just pursue short term gratification by partaking in our out-of-control consumer society, wasting their money buying all sorts of unnecessary crap. That is their choice and because so many citizens are doing that I think we are totally screwed as a superpower and will continue our downward slide. Relating back to the topic of this thread, I continue to want to take what I consider the prudent measures in case of a localized emergency event, to hunker down at home (in place), if possible, as opposed to bugging out, with supplies and equipment to last for between 2 weeks, possibly up to 4 weeks. For most anticipated human caused or Mother Nature caused local or regional disasters, this should suffice. But after that I am not confident at all that we will survive. I say this due to these concerns: - Living in suburban NJ, availability of food will become a paramount issue sooner than in other areas. - This will be followed by the issue of the availability or lack thereof of safe drinking water. - The density of NJ will mean that those people who run out of either food and/or water will panic and become desperate and will seek both and do horrible terrorizing things to others to obtain them. - Even with firearms and ammunition, the number of these desperate people will overwhelm most family’s ability to defend what little they have left. - Most suburbs are not realistically defendable from the onslaught of desperate refuges from the more urban cities and ring towns and will be overrun by these people. Desperate former urbanites will become the real zombies attacking others, first in the suburbs and then in the more rural areas. Unfortunately, there is no happy ending in this scenerio.... AVB-AMG

I have now finished reading (listening to the audio book versions) of: - Lights Out: A Cyberattack, a Nation Unprepared, Surviving the Aftermath by Ted Kopple - One Second After by William R. Forstchen -One Year After: A Novel by William R. Forstchen My synopsis: Very, very sobering and depressing…. The first is a “what if” scenario of the loss of electric power regionally or even nationally, while the last two are fictionalized novels about the aftermath of an electric magnetic pulse (EMP) caused by multiple nuclear warheads being detonated at a high altitude over the continental United States. All three present a very sobering, logical, feasible and frightening vision of how our fellow Americans would act and react under such circumstances over a period of several days, weeks, months and finally two years later. It is not an encouraging story line and very alarming due to the realization that such an event not only could happen, but may possibly happen in our life time. I know I am not alone here in my frustration with how our American society and culture has devolved over the past 30-40 years. How the choices of our elected leaders have squandered tax payers money and ignored more important and vital issues. As well as how our elected officials may possibly be aware of many of these important issues of vulnerability and exposure, but choose to ignore them and do nothing constructive. or selfishly just pursue avenues for their own self-interest. Looking to our government or commercial private industry to take steps to prevent the adverse effects of an EMP attack, is most likely not realistic. This may sound fatalistic, but I believe that the vast majority of American’s today are clueless about what could happen and may happen and have chosen to be ignorant. They are just satisfied to spend their free time when not working to be entertained and, like sheep, just pursue short term gratification by partaking in our out-of-control consumer society, wasting their money buying all sorts of unnecessary crap. That is their choice and because so many citizens are doing that I think we are totally screwed as a superpower and will continue our downward slide. Relating back to the topic of this thread, I continue to want to take what I consider the prudent measures in case of a localized emergency event, to hunker down at home (in place), if possible, as opposed to bugging out, with supplies and equipment to last for between 2 weeks, possibly up to 4 weeks. For most anticipated human caused or Mother Nature caused local or regional disasters, this should suffice. But after that I am not confident at all that we will survive. I say this due to these concerns: - Living in suburban NJ, availability of food will become a paramount issue sooner than in other areas. - This will be followed by the issue of the availability or lack thereof of safe drinking water. - The density of NJ will mean that those people who run out of either food and/or water will panic and become desperate and will seek both and do horrible terrorizing things to others to obtain them. - Even with firearms and ammunition, the number of these desperate people will overwhelm most family’s ability to defend what little they have left. - Most suburbs are not realistically defendable from the onslaught of desperate refuges from the more urban cities and ring towns and will be overrun by these people. Desperate former urbanites will become the real zombies attacking others, first in the suburbs and then in the more rural areas. AVB-AMG

After reading his book, I realize that our society/country is so utterly dependent on electricity that without it we will rapidly regress to an early 19th century way of life, as well as see a degeneration of civil, law abiding society. Those of us who survive the first six months, which will not be many, will most likely develop many smaller feudal like communities that have resorted to a more military like lifestyle, that can be defended from roving and raiding MadMax like gangs. Personal grooming, including bathing, shaving, etc. will be less common and the survivors will have a pronounced strong human odor. It will truly be a survival of the fittest, overcoming the inevitable starvation and disease epidemics that are sure to follow. I am confident that Newtonian will stand apart from the rest of us with his still pristine bug out bag(s) full of many of the luxuries that we all take for granted now, including toothpaste, mouthwash, as well as bullets and cigarettes for trading and some fine aged Scotch to numb the mind for the long hard road to recovery.... AVB-AMG

Sorry Krdshrk. I apologize for sidetracking your original post of the NY Post article with some silly slapstick, so it may now return to the discussion of Hornady Critical Defense bullets.... AVB-AMG

Wait a second... I almost forgot... In W.W. II GM's Cadillac Division made Tanks for the US Army:

Ok, I had to come back from the tangent I took and try to tie in a Cadillac with guns and this is the best I can do….

If I was going to drive a purple Cadillac it would be this one....

Or maybe it was one of those wonderful 70's pimp mobiles.....