EngineerJet

What I'd like to know is how many people in this state have been tried and convicted for intent to create an unlawful firearm. Seems like it's easy to charge you but to convict the burden of proof seems pretty high.

Excuse me sir... Point me to the law that says it can't be built. Your opinion means jack

It says "necessary to prevent an individual from manufacturing or posessing an unlawful firearm". Well it's not considered manufacturing and since the end configuration is legal...

In short. No. Because it'll prevent an individual from making or possessing an unlawful firearm. I dunno how this holds up legally without a law. The same argument can be made with building all ar15s. Since we we have to pin stocks and pin brakes. Wonder what a lawyer has to say about this?

My best guess. They cant just get the records without a warrant. Which would mean they would have to go to a judge and explain that they want a warrant to get the names of people who purchased a legal firearm. And now that the law was changed after the fact, they want to go round them up. By that same logic, they could have done the same with the magazine ban. But they didnt.

I believe theyd need the FFL's records which requires a warrant

Gonna throw in my recommendation of a glock 34. since itll be for home defense, size shouldnt matter. and you can fit it for an rmr for competition down the line.

The thread has probably evolved since your first post, and many members have given very good helpful feedback in terms of reliability and improving proficiency. I noticed you mentioned modding. Were you looking for an all around handgun that is good for homedefense and competition?

Was speaking to an FFL that said the same. When the police stop by they are generally very pro-gun and can't stand the anti-gun lawmakers. Their hands are just tied cuz its their job.

I guess therein lies the question of, what list of descriptions made this firearm good to go? To me it looks like the fact that it had a brace put it into a configuration that didnt fit into a prohibited category. So on paper, it looks like flash hiders and threaded barrels etc would be allowed on an SBF. With respect to the OAL, I'm not everyone to go out and build 22 inch SBF. But its fair to ask what are our limits. Will any brace do? Different brands of vertical grips? Is barrel length relevant as long as 26 is met? etc. We know on the federal level, 26 is the minimum for rifles and pistols with a vertical grip. I've looked over N.J.S.2C:39 and it appears at the state level there is no OAL minimum requirement for pistols and rifles and only shotguns. So its possible the manufacturers kept the 26 minimum to cover their bases just in case ATF classifies it as a pistol? Has ATF chimed in so far to what these SBF are classified as?

Agreed. But this all hinders first on the basic classification pistol before these additional conditions have to be met. For this thread I assume we are refering to these SBF and similar firearms. Since these firearms dont fit into the traditional pistol or rifle or shotgun, these features don't apply to them, right?

No issues, Just looking at the laws. The below 26 for pistols as long as you dont add a vertical grip is federal, yes. NJ law makes no mention of minimum length except for shotguns. These weapons are not classified as a rifle, pistol or shotgun according to NJ and thus cannot be classified as assault firearms. Why am I the one with the issue for stating what I've read and opening the floor corrections? I did not dispute the conditions for why you cant be below 26". I just added the addendum that you can be under 26 if no vertical grip (should have clarified federally). But since at the state level they dont qualify as pistol or rifle. At the state level there is no minimum requirements for these firearms. We're all here to learn. No need for hostility.

You can be below 26 for pistols as long as you dont add a vertical grip. If you have more up to date information then I'm all for it.

As I said, Im not gonna go build whatever I want. This is just discussion on what is and is not allowed based on the wording of NJ and Federal laws. If there is someone who has contradictory information that is legit, its 100% welcome. I'm still learning more as I go and I just realized the 26 minimum OAL is probably being met by the SBF and similar firearms because its designed to be fired by two hands. I noticed the Troy and DS firearms both have vertical foregrips. I'm wondering if they didnt wanna play with the verbage of angled foregrip/grip stop vs vertical grip?

Yes, but the requirements are are on rifles and pistols. Since ATF already stated adding a brace to a pistol does not make it a rifle. It seems like that minimum length does not apply. I could be wrong but thats how I read it so far. As for minimum length on a pistol i found this. An AR-15 pistol with an overall length of 26" or longer may have a vertical foregrip installed, as long as no buttstock is installed in conjunction with a shorter than 16" barrel. This means AR pistol under 26 inches cannot have a vertical grip. Maybe its possible NJ doesnt consider it a pistol, but the ATF still might?