S104, CCW in NJ

[deadeye74 5]

In the midst of our efforts to stop A588 from getting passed, I was wondering what the general consensus on S104 which address CCW in NJ is.

 

http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2012/Bills/S0500/104_I1.HTM

 

What are the odds of this passing? Should we be starting a heavy push with emails and phone calls to address this? I'm not crazy about the wording with "justifiable cause" being left up to the police chief since if a town has a chief that is anti gun, no one will get a permit.

[Recon Racoon 49]

In the midst of our efforts to stop A588 from getting passed, I was wondering what the general consensus on S104 which address CCW in NJ is.

 

http://www.njleg.sta...0500/104_I1.HTM

 

What are the odds of this passing? Should we be starting a heavy push with emails and phone calls to address this? I'm not crazy about the wording with "justifiable cause" being left up to the police chief since if a town has a chief that is anti gun, no one will get a permit.

It'd be easier to challenge local police chiefs on justifiable need than on a state level. Its a step in the right direction though, and IMO we should call, email or what ever we need to do to get this passed.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

It'd be easier to challenge local police chiefs on justifiable need than on a state level. Its a step in the right direction though, and IMO we should call, email or what ever we need to do to get this passed.

 

No! No compromise. It should not be discretionary. Firearms laws are the purview of the state, if you give control on the local level they become highly discriminatory. Once you accept compromise, there will be no more advancement. You are kidding yourself if you think it can be done incrementally.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[TCinJ 7]

I think if you cannot be disqualified for a FID card, and you've taken the firearms safety course, you should be able to carry. It's that simple.

 

Leaving it up to your local police chief is almost as bad as the current law.

 

I wonder ow many CCW permits were issued in 2011 to people who weren't armed guards or former LEO. My guess is ZERO.

[mipafox 438]

Doesn't matter. Christie said the "population density is too high" in NJ for people to carry guns. I don't think he'd sign.

 

 

[Gorilla800lbs 12]

In my view, the FID/permits/CCW should be ENTIRELY within the state's purview. I still don't understand what value does the local PDs add to the process, other than being a time sink (I.e. acting as a step that DELAYS the process). Ideally, the approach should not be principally different from obtaining a license to operate a motor vehicle.

[hopper 36]

I wish a bill to carry would go to Christies desk just to see what he would do especially considering hes a possible VP candidate or 2016 Prez candidate , sure would upset the apple cart in the Free states and possibly change their minds on this NOT SO REPUBLICAN republican !!!

[MikeK77 8]

Since I can never seem to read those damn things...can someone clarify what the bill states?

[Z71 4]

after reading it , my take is that 1) changes 2 yr valid before renewal to 5 yr

2) eliminates justifiable need,3 references and judge approval

3) if you qualify for the fid or p2p you qualify for carry permit along with NRA safety cert or similiar

4) eliminates public safety concern as excuse to deny

5) eliminate noting type and serial # of gun to be carried

much like the app for fid/p2p it's still up to the cleo to approve (refer to #3)

renewal would not require re-certification or approval providing you have not done something to revoke it..it said something like

person having a CP would be deemed qualified and need not provide info as per the intial app....

[BRaptor 68]

Sadly, this Bill has been flopping around Trenton for the past 8 years.

 

It will be introduced. Then the idiot leadership in the Senate will send it to the committe on Law and Public Safety, where the idiot leadership there will let it languish for the remainder of the 2012 legislative session.

 

I've written my "representatives:" Nia H. Gill, Thomas P. Giblin and Sheila Y. Oliver. They wouldn't dignify my brief, calm, polite letters which took quite some time to write, and requested responses with any kind of response. Not a peep out of those three clowns.

 

Perhaps you could write your representatives. Maybe they respect your vote. :thsmiley_deadhorse:

[MrSurfboard 1]

Chances of this or any pro gun legislation passing in NJ, in the words of Dean Wormer "0.0"

[LorenzoS 100]

Sadly this bill has no chance whatsoever of passing. The majority of our fellow NJ citiziens have no understanding of firearms beyond the gun nut propaganda from movies and the Brady Bunch. To them it's a foregone conclusion that legal CCW would result in shootouts over parking spaces, blood in the streets and anarchy.

[Dan 177]

I've wrote to my legislators to support this bill, I got some boilerplate anti-gun response. Yay.

 

Anyway, this bill is a dead-man walking. NJ will not pass any legislation revising CCW laws voluntarily. Federal Court of Appeals or SCOTUS action is needed on the SAF/ANJRPC lawsuit, and even after we win that, the rest of free America may have to send in the National Guard to force NJ into compliance.

[reloaderguy 30]

Any pro gun bills in this state are dead!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[mipafox 438]

I've wrote to my legislators to support this bill, I got some boilerplate anti-gun response. Yay.

 

LOL, that is down right depressing. I guess they know for sure which side their bread is buttered on.

[johnoutdoors 10]

The new AG, Jeff Chiesa, was doing an interview on gangs in NJ. He pointed out that gangs are in all 21 counties, that sometime initiation includes murder, and that gangs have no respect for "communities, families, or the police." Seems like a sure case of him knowing about threats to the citizens. Does anyone know his feelings on CCW? If he's favorable he could, if I'm correct, define justifiable need. I'm sure thats wishful thinking, but that seems like the best (long) shot to get it before its forced on a federal level.

[deadeye74 5]

The new AG, Jeff Chiesa, was doing an interview on gangs in NJ. He pointed out that gangs are in all 21 counties, that sometime initiation includes murder, and that gangs have no respect for "communities, families, or the police." Seems like a sure case of him knowing about threats to the citizens. Does anyone know his feelings on CCW? If he's favorable he could, if I'm correct, define justifiable need. I'm sure thats wishful thinking, but that seems like the best (long) shot to get it before its forced on a federal level.

 

I would love love to see it pass here ahead of the federal legislation however this is NJ. Regardless of my energy and desire to push for our pro gun causes, I have to say reality is we will need HR822 to pass this way we can end up in SCOTUS and win with the law suit.

[mipafox 438]

I honestly believe there will be CC in NJ. As long as things keep moving in our direction. I also believe that firearms and carry are going to largely be illegal nationwide in the next 50 years. So, it has to happen before things stop moving in our direction.

 

I don't have any information or analysis to back any of this up. It;s just wild speculation. I just check the wind direction and feel two things. The first is that even anti-carry states have flopped in recent history. We are getting to the point where it just seems like it's going to be hard for NJ to continue to maintain this brainwashing. It's basically come to NJ, MD, and IL against the world (nobody cares about HI). Which is why I always say, don't show your gun-timid neighbors that guns and carry are good vs. bad - show them that guns and carry are NORMAL, nationwide. In my experience that has opened way more eyes than trying to convince people about the cost to benefit ratio of gun control. When people realize everybody is doing it, and it's not bothering anybody, it makes them question their preconceived notions.

 

The second thing I feel is that, despite the progress we've made, the federal government is growing tired of us being armed. And, since we don't have any Bill of Rights protections anymore, I think they are going to whittle away gun ownership unless we get them under control first. And, unfortunately, I don't expect the latter.

 

[pepsi71ocean 2]

I honestly believe there will be CC in NJ. As long as things keep moving in our direction. I also believe that firearms and carry are going to largely be illegal nationwide in the next 50 years. So, it has to happen before things stop moving in our direction.

 

I don't have any information or analysis to back any of this up. It;s just wild speculation. I just check the wind direction and feel two things. The first is that even anti-carry states have flopped in recent history. We are getting to the point where it just seems like it's going to be hard for NJ to continue to maintain this brainwashing. It's basically come to NJ, MD, and IL against the world (nobody cares about HI). Which is why I always say, don't show your gun-timid neighbors that guns and carry are good vs. bad - show them that guns and carry are NORMAL, nationwide. In my experience that has opened way more eyes than trying to convince people about the cost to benefit ratio of gun control. When people realize everybody is doing it, and it's not bothering anybody, it makes them question their preconceived notions.

 

The second thing I feel is that, despite the progress we've made, the federal government is growing tired of us being armed. And, since we don't have any Bill of Rights protections anymore, I think they are going to whittle away gun ownership unless we get them under control first. And, unfortunately, I don't expect the latter.

 

You state that it will be illegal withing the next 50 years? can i have a clarification on that.

 

wittle down yes, but could the government get rid of guns in america, i highly doubt, yea the first 1,000 houses might be stripped clean but then the next 1,000 houes the consificators will be in over their head.

[mipafox 438]

 

I said "Largely illegal," but yes.

 

You state that it will be illegal withing the next 50 years? can i have a clarification on that.

 

wittle down yes, but could the government get rid of guns in america, i highly doubt, yea the first 1,000 houses might be stripped clean but then the next 1,000 houes the consificators will be in over their head.

 

I think they are basically going to go NJ on the nation, but worse. Just add so many restrictions and hoops and taxes that it becomes very difficult to possess firearms, nearly impossible to carry, and with firearms illegal by default from a practical perspective. I do hope I am wrong. Fortunately, I'm not a prophet.

[SpacemanFry 51]

I disagree. As a nation the peak of anti-gun was the 1994 AWB but since then the pendulum has started swinging the other way. The recession, slow economy and record distrust of the government will only push the sentiment more towards gun ownership. The SCOTUS needs to get and decide on another major 2A legislation to further build the case that it's unconstitutional to restrict 2A. The major goal this decade should be to get as many 2A related suits before SCOTUS as possible and hopefully win most of them as that builds stronger and stronger precendents for future decisions. Once it's enshrined in SCOTUS decisions then the only way the Gov will be able to go back to infringing will be through an amendment, which I don't foresee passing anytime soon.

 

We get it mipafox, you're jaded, NJ blows, we're all gonna die blah blah blah... it's not really necessary to remind us of this in every possible thread.

[Rifleman1 32]

This bill was originally written in 2004 and has been reintroduced. Anyone know what the current status is on this bill?

[mipafox 438]

I disagree. As a nation the peak of anti-gun was the 1994 AWB but since then the pendulum has started swinging the other way.

 

I pointed that out and used it as my basis for believing NJ will get CC.

 

We get it mipafox, you're jaded, NJ blows, we're all gonna die blah blah blah... it's not really necessary to remind us of this in every possible thread.

 

I said I believe NJ will get CC. How does that make NJ blow?

 

Long term, for the nation as a whole, yes, I am not optimistic. Don't get your shorts in a bunch defending NJ when I am expressing concern about the nation as a whole and NOT NJ at all. If I was worried about hard times ahead for Mexico would you start defending NJ?

 

I see a hell of a lot more negativity about NJ in this thread than I have brought. Only thing I said about NJ is I don't believe Christie is going to help us but I do believe we'll get CC in NJ.

[Paul Charbonneau 0]

I wrote my legislators yesterday about this after the NRA email. Someone above asked how many CCW's were issued in 2011. My question/tactic: is the "list" of who is granted a CCW public info? If so, we need to get the list and see who is on it. I guarrantee you that democrats, their families/contributors and maybe some republicans are on it. Then we go to the Democrats and Chrisie with the list and say, " I find it hard to believe that this individual who is connected to you or yourself was issued a permit w/out your direct intervention/recommendation. Ask them for their support. If they duck and weave and/or say no outright, go public w/ the list and ask why if they are so against legal carry they carry and/or recommended that someone connected to them does.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

My question/tactic: is the "list" of who is granted a CCW public info?

 

 

NJAC 13:54-1.15

Any background investigation conducted by the chief of police, the Superintendent or the county prosecutor, of any applicant for a permit, firearms identification card license, or registration, in accordance with the requirements of this chapter, is not a public record and shall not be disclosed to any person not authorized by law or this chapter to have access to such investigation, including the applicant. Any application for a permit, firearms identification card, or license, and any document reflecting the issuance or denial of such permit, firearms identification card, or license, and any permit, firearms identification card, license, certification, certificate, form of register, or registration statement, maintained by any State or municipal governmental agency, is not a public record and shall not be disclosed to any person not authorized by law or this chapter to have access to such documentation, including the applicant, except on the request of persons acting in their governmental capacities for purposes of the administration of justice.