Question re: .223 Bolt Action Rifles

[kenw 293]

Okay, a couple of conversations on here reignited my lust for a decent rifle. I'm interested in a .223 because I may eventually jump into an AR style gun, just not for the first one.

 

I've seen nice guns ranging from $350 to $1800 and way, way up. What should I be looking for, and what features are just marketing bullshit. Fluted barrel? Chromed bolt?

 

I plan on mounting a decent a scope and getting to the point where I'm not embarrassed to shoot on the 300 yd range. So, accuracy is important. I don't really care if the furniture is plastic, unless is affects the accuracy or quality of the gun. Is a gently used gun okay?

 

I've handled a couple of the Remington 700's. They seem okay, but are they better/worse that a Savage, or a Kimber, or a Tikka, etc. Everybody seems to make at least one of these. I'm confused.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Ken

[NJ-Tom 4]

Ken I have been contemplating the same thing for quite some time with no decision yet. I found two sites while doing some research on long distance shooting. They have reviews on rifles, scopes, rings and other related equipment they are hard core but may offer up some information; http://www.snipershide.com/.

[kenw 293]

Thanks, Tom,

 

Looks like the Savage is fairly high on the list of sub-$1000 guns. More food for thought.

 

Ken

[tbtrout 141]

I am looking for one as well. I like Rem 700's. The PSS is nice, but I prefer the older used Varmint rifles with real wood stocks. I have found the cratsmanship a little better. I am still looking. Not that I am opposed to a new rifle mind you.

 

Savage makes a nice rifle as well.

 

The bottom line is how much do you want to spend? Does that include glass and accessories as well?

[NJ-Tom 4]

Here is my list; Remington 700 LTR, Tikka T3 Tactical, and the CZ 527 Varmint kevlar. On several occasions I have shot the Remington I would like to test fire the Tikka and the CZ before I make a decision. It seems all Remingtons are on back order at this time and the CZ was not available a couple of months ago, I have not checked since then.

[rscalzo 3]

The main problem with a 223 bolt rifle is the barrel. Many have a 1 in 12 twist. That means they will stabilize a lighter bullet, say from 40 to 55 grains just fine. But they will not stabilize a heavier bullet over that. So a M855 62 grain, 65 grain A-max or the very popular 69 grain Sierra Matchking will not work. they will keyhole after a short distance. As the 223 is a very popular varmint rifle cartridge, it isn't a problem. One of the few rifles in that caliber to have a 1 in 7 twist is the Remington 700P. But they are somewhat rare as most were produced in 308 (or heavier).

 

So while they are fine rifles, you have to chose the ammo carefully for suitable performance. I'd say handloading really brings out the best in them.

[kenw 293]

rscalzo,

 

Thanks for the information. So much to learn... so little time.

 

Will a 1:7 twist barrel handle the lighter bullet properly, or will that also be a problem? Or would I be restricted to a given weight range depending on the barrel twist rate.

 

Thanks.

 

Ken

[NJ-Tom 4]

Oh Oh more research needed. Thanks rscalzo.

[rscalzo 3]

My experience comes from a friend who recently purchased one. It handled the lighter range of bullets just fine. I'd say anything up to a 55 grain bullet worked. The heavier bullets in the 60 grain area didn't work well at all. The 65 grain A-max bullet which was very accurate in his AR's thimbled badly.

 

It depends what you want to do with it and the ammo you intend on using. I love my 700P but to find one in 223 is tough and they are more costly than many of the standard bolt 223 out on the market. Check the Savage line. They might have a varity of barrel twists available. I'm not that familiar with their line though.

[kenw 293]

Okay, now I'm even more confused. I went to the Savage Arms site to take a look, and discovered that they sell several packages consisting of gun and boresighted scope. Now, I'm sure the scope isn't anywhere near Nikon/Leupold quality, but it's probably just fine for a noob, and can be upgraded later when I have a little more knowledge.

 

My question is, these guns are a 1:9 twist. Based on rscalzo's information, it seems that this is a compromise to accommodate various heavier bullets, but I'm just guessing. If anyone has the answer, please share it.

 

The couple of reviews I've been able to find say that the gun is accurate out of the box to 1" or better at 100yds, and easily as precise a weapon as any comparable Remington/Winchester/etc.

 

I may be leaning towards one of these packages. All opinions are welcome.

 

Thanks.

 

http://www.savagearms.com/11fxp3.htm

http://www.savagearms.com/16fxp3.htm

 

Ken

[rscalzo 3]

1 x 9 is a nice compromise twist. It will stabilized anything in the 52//5 up to about a 69 grain. Anything above is hit or miss depending on the load.

 

Here's a more more detailed description of the caliber and it's parts.

http://www.6mmbr.com/223Rem.html

 

If it were me, I'd stay with a faster twist if you are just looking for a range gun. The heavier Sierra Matchking bullets can do wonders behind the right combo of powder, case, primers and prep. That and the fact that most of the 223 ammo available is using the 55 grain and up bullets. If you have or are thinking of getting an AR, the loads for both work better with the faster twist.

 

Again, depends what you are looking for the rifle to do.

[kenw 293]

1 x 9 is a nice compromise twist. It will stabilized anything in the 52//5 up to about a 69 grain. Anything above is hit or miss depending on the load.

 

rscalzo,

 

I'll read about this some more, but this math and science stuff makes my brain hurt. I'm a compromise kind of guy, so I may still go with the Savage. I don't think I'll have any overpowering need to shoot anything heavier than a 73gr bullet. I don't hunt, I don't reload (as of now, that may change) and if the zombies come, I'll take my chances.

 

Thanks again. If you're ever in my neck of the PRNJ, let me know. Adult beverages are on me.

 

Ken

[rscalzo 3]

I'm back down in May for a few days before I head north to Canada. All I usually bring is my carry gun. At one time I used the Bullethole to complete by bi-annual qualifications for my NJ Retired Carry Permit. But since we have several LE agencies as corporate members in our gun club and I'm somewhat of the LE liaison I've been invited to qualify with them. so a few times a year I go and do what i do all week anyway. Then they give me an official letterhead stating I qualified. saves me well over $250.00 a year as i no longer need the NJ permit.

 

I shot at Cherry Ridge as a kid many years ago. I'd bring something to shoot a high power or Garand match if the timing was right. Or the beverage was cold !!!! Better yet, come up to NH. 300 yard and longer ranges and cheap lobster. We have a two day match in August to benefit the military families in the state. Sig just gave us a handgun to raffle off. they are local guys and many of them come over. H&K not builds their line near the house so we have to hit them up. Insight has said they would join in with some items. Should be fun. We even have a Congressman (not NH Senator) stops by to join in. Even better, Sig always brings over some toys to play with after we finish.

[kenw 293]

We even have a Congressman (not NH Senator) stops by to join in.

Outstanding! What are the chances of anyone in NJ gov't. ever showing up at a shooting event, no matter how noble or admirable the cause?

 

Ken

[tbtrout 141]

My AR is 1 in 9 and my Encore is 1 in 12. I shoot 55 gr out of both with no issues. My Encore is at the top end of bullet weight. I would go with a 1 in 9 as suggested. That is what I am looking for as well.

[Joe D 0]

My .02

 

I purchased an SPS Stainless Varmint a month ago and I am happy. I have some plans, possibly in the winter, to upgrade the stock and I definetly need to lighten the trigger. However, I presently have a very good shooter at $550. Not saying it is better than any other manufacturerl; just offering feedback.

[Mauser88 0]

I own a Remmy 700 Varmit. It has a 1/12 twist barrel. With 69 grain bullets it's not consistant at all. Now with 55 grain bullets it's a real tack driver.

 

At 200 yards I can explode full cans of Coca-Cola all day long. I relplaced the stock with a PSS and it handles much better for me.

 

I also had the barrel threaded and added a brake as well as having the trigger tuned a bit.