kman

In actuality you want to go to the range before you drive back home. Dont have to shoot there the statute just says go there. Remember phones record locations. A few miles out if your way on the way bacj to go through the range parking lot might save you a lot of trouble. Cutting corners on this may work in the short term but if you break the law enough eventually something is going to go wrong. Hopefully not too long in the future this will all be changed and we can laugh at how silly the law used to be. Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

Also avoid coming back home late after the range closes. At 2 am no cop is gonna believe you are returning from the range unless you have a 24 hour range you can point to that is directly in line with the route you are driving and your house. Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

Have your NJ transport exemption ready to be clearly recited. This could be going to a PA range. Having a range membership in place across the border down the road ahead would be a good idea. Having targets and ear protection and eye protection with you also indicates you intend to go to a range if a police officer or judge doesnt believe you. Once you are across you can change your mind. If this sounds ridiculous it is because the laws are ridiculous. But if you arent prepared to substantiate an exemption and you have a handgun in the trunk then you risk arrest if you are stopped or break down and that is not something you want. Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

By the way if you are serious about making these you should lawyer up so you can safely and legally submit a sample for a ruling by the NJ Attorney General or the NJ State Police or something like that for a formal legal determination as to whether it is a "large capacity ammunition magazine" under the NJ law or not. If they say it is illegal, then you can drop the idea without being arrested. If they say it is not a banned item, then you are cleared to go to production and sale and have proof of legality if you get pulled over, and you can give assurance to your customers that your product has been determined to be legal and they won't get in trouble. I don't know what the law is in other states, but it seems you would have plenty of customers in NJ, NY, CA, CO, and a few other states. Perhaps this is patentable. Magpul might end up buying you out for a nice check. If you are going to do this, do it right.

Can't say 100% it is legal, because gun law enforcement in this state is just too uncertain. We all want it to be legal, and can make arguments that it is legal, but that doesn't necessarily make it so. Would anyone here bring one of these 30 round "noncontinuous" magazines to the police station and ask them if it is legal? If that doesn't sound like a nice afternoon conversation at the police station, then that's the point here - it's asking for trouble in this state. Unless you have a nice big bank account to pay the lawyer to argue that a "noncontinuous" 30 round magazine is legal, then it is a risky proposition to be in possession of one of these things, or to sell them. It's all fun and games till you are under arrest for a felony, have your hands cuffed, picture taken, fingerprints made, car siezed, impounded and auctioned off, guns confiscated, FPID card revoked, attorney retainer paid, bail posted, and job lost. I'll just make sure I'm not in the same car as anyone who has one of these on them.

It's an interesting attempt to work around the statute. Trying to think through if it works. Here's what the definition is: "Large capacity ammunition magazine" means a box, drum, tube or other container, which is capable of holding more than 15 rounds of ammunition to be fed continuously and directly therefrom into a semi-automatic firearm. So this magazine definitely holds more than 15 rounds, and it definitely feeds those rounds into a semi-automatic firearm, and therefore the only question is because it can only feed 15 at a time without flipping it, is it feeding the semi-automatic firearm "continuously and directly"? Depends on what your interpretation of "continuously and directly" is. If you have to remove it, turn it over, and reconnect it to feed the 16th round, then arguably it isn't feeding that 16th round continuously, although it fed the prior 15 continuously. There's a discontinuity preventing the 16th round from automatically feeding because the magazine needs to be removed, flipped over and reinserted. On the other hand, the statute is not clear whether all the rounds (beyond 15 allowed) need to be continuously fed. In other words, if it holds 30, and 15 feed continuously, and the rest don't feed continuously, is that enough continuous feeding to satisfy the requirement of continuous and automatic feeding to make it illegal? The statute doesn't specifically and explicitly say that ALL rounds have to feed continuously. (I.E. it doesn't say "more than 15 rounds of ammunition all of which to be fed continuously"). On the other hand, the wording does strongly imply that the rounds that the magazine does hold have to feed continuously. The question would be whether the 16th round has to feed continuously in order to fulfill the continuity requirement of the statute and make it illegal. The statute isn't crystal clear on this, and I could see a judge holding that 15 is the legal limit for capacity and that 15 has nothing to do with continuity. And thus by that reasoning if it holds more than 15, and rounds feed continously in general, it is illegal. If you are relying upon a NJ judge giving a wide interpretation (or even a reasonable interpretation) to gun laws in this state, you are taking a big risk. I'm assuming you hacksawed the 30 round magazines in half before you crossed the border into NJ right?

I don't know if this makes it legal or not, but if your friend moved to your address, then he could bring his guns with him when he moved. And if he then went on a trip, his address in NJ could remain at your address. This could potentially be accomplished by changing the address on his driver license at the DMV which can be done online, and having his other stuff changed over (have bank statements, etc, go to your address). If he moves to your house/apartment, brings his stuff there with him, and his driver license has his address as your place, then who would say he isn't allowed to have his guns there? Definitely have him lock them up too, so you don't have access to them even if you wanted to get to them. And like I said, I don't know if this is legal or not but I do know one thing - it is easier to move your address than it is to legally transfer ownership of a pistol in NJ.

Jersey has a law on laser power? Really? Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

Anyone have a link to the written decision of the court, or a citation?

If it is just a primed case take it to the range and chamber it and fire. I had to do that for 200 cases once. If you don't want the case anymore wrap it in paper towel and put it in a ziploc bag and put water in the bag and put it in with your kitchen garbage. Done. Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

You gotta be nuts to think that a NJ judge is gonna find one of these to be legal after seeing a video of one being used. All they have to find is that it is telescoping and you are in jail for having an evil death machine. In fact a NJ judge will probably find you to also have a machinegun. Look at the youtube videos. Just because the ATF signed off on it based on the federal definition of machine gun, doesn't mean NJ has to follow suit when interpreting its own state law defining machine guns. Not to mention if you used it in a NJ range the rapid fire sound will draw any cop in earshot over, the range officer will probably kick you out, and you will be lucky if you are not presented with a search warrant when you get home because the cops think you have a machinegun. Want to live in agony debating what 'telescoping' means to SWAT, prosecutors and judges? Forget about it. Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

No such permit exists to apply for. Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

With LE transitioning to 9mm, police and military become ammunition compatible and can share their ammunition when they work together. Think about that for a while..... Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

Practical answer: if they don't want to keep the guns, have a dealer come and get them and the dealer can sell or transfer the guns for them. Sneaky answer: Do nothing and wait for five years; after then, the limitation period for any laws that might have been fractured by acquiring these guns in the manner that they were acquired (by purchase of the house) will have run out, and they can simply keep them. Safe answer: Call the police and have the police come grab the guns, and then apply for a FID card and purchase permits to get the guns back.

How about get a long drill bit and drill the lead core out from the back of the bullet from the breech end. Once the bullet is hollowed out it will be easier to loosen with pounding from the muzzle end. Lead is soft enough you might be able to do it with regular drill bits hand turning the bits with your fingers or needle nose pliers working your way up from smallest drill bit to the largest. If you can't get a long enough bit to clear the action parts, since the back of that bullet is exposed lead, you could get some mercury and pour it into the breech, and let it sit and dissolve that lead bullet till it is just an easily removable copper jacket. Not exactly ecologically acceptable but something that would work that would have been done decades ago. I don't know what it would do to the heat treating (probably nothing but who knows?) but a propane torch to the back of the bullet with the barrel aimed up vertically might melt the lead right out of that jacket and drip it out of the gun, and then the empty copper jacket could be easily removed with forceps or just banging it out from the muzzle end. Back in 1992 it would have been an easy fix - remove and replace SKS with $99 replacement unit. You might also want to complain to Dick's and see if you can get them to foot the bill for a gunsmith, being as how ammo they sold was at fault and could very well have injured you had you not been vigilant.

Might want to determine which county the range is in PA where this happened and send a link to the county sheriff out there. Intentionally pointing a loaded or unloaded firearm at someone is aggravated asssault. Maybe the sheriff could get an arrest warrant drawn up and extradite. I have not viewed this video but if it is as bad as everyone says then the sheriff ought to be interested. Especially if on a public range. Safety of other people there was jeopardized. Police in NJ would not be interested as they have no criminal jurisdiction over behavior in PA, although the NJ town police might have grounds to pursue revocation of FPID card for these people on the basis of reckless behavior. Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

Which form are you talking about? There are only two that would be at issue here. The Federal Form 4473: http://www.atf.gov/files/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf The NJSP Certificate of Eligibility: http://www.njsp.org/info/pdf/firearms/sp-634.pdf --The NJSP Certificate of Eligibility asks if you have been confined for a mental disorder since issuance of your FID card. That is a "No" for you based on what you say - this happened long ago, long before you ever got your card in the first place. By the way, the form itself (lower left hand corner) says that if you answered "Yes" to this question, the transfer cannot go forward. I'd get this taken care of. Go back to the store and correct that form if you answered yes here! --The Federal 4473 form asks if you have been adjudicated mentally defective or committed to a mental institution. If you read the explanation of this question (Question 11.F - Page 4 provides explanation), it basically says that if you were voluntarily admitted, or admitted for observation, the answer is "No". It is only "Yes" if some sort of "board, court, commission or other lawful authority" committed you. If none of that happened to you, your answer to that question is "No". If you answered "Yes" to that question on the 4473 form, the dealer should not have transferred the gun to you and probably broke federal law doing so. You need to get there and correct that form if the answer should be yes ASAP. An ATF agent auditing the guy's paperwork spotting could get you into a real legal jam. If you were actually committed when you were little, you need to get in contact with a lawyer to see if that messes you up federally. The feds might count childhood events, they might not. Either way, look at those questions carefully, consider whatever happend in your past, and get this situation fixed. Those forms sitting at the dealer are an open invitation for the ATF to come to your house. A "yes" answer to the 4473 form essentially tells them you are a prohibited person and they could probably get a search warrant based on that alone.

Probably worth hiring Evan Nappen (or whichever lawyer you talked to) in the long run, at least if you really want to get the FPID. There's nothing like hiring people who know what they are doing in order to make sure you get the best outcome. What you need is a psychiatrist who is actually willing to give an honest appraisal of you, and who is willing to sign a letter if he thinks you are good. You could spend many months hopping from one psychiatrist to another only to find out they are all prejudiced against gun ownership and unwilling to sign a letter for someone who is absolutely normal.

True, now you just have to get the letter before the police decide they have waited long enough and deny the application and start the clock rolling for appeal. Whereas, if you get the letter first, then you avoid the entire issue. You might be able to get a reference to a good doctor by calling Evan Nappen - he ought to know the names of doctors who are reasonable when it comes to guns. The doctor that initially prescribed the stuff to you might sign off. He has a prior relationship with you, you aren't taking the stuff anymore so you are presumably better, if you schedule an appointment with him and spend 15 minutes speaking with him and letting him catch up on your current status, he might just write a letter and that would be it. That would probably be the best route to take. If he agrees you don't need to be on the stuff anymore, then how could he not agree to sign the letter? He could sign the letter even if you were taking prescriptions, if he thought you were OK.

Don't say yes to that question unless you ALREADY have a doctor letter in hand and submit that letter to them WITH the application on day one. Cops are not doctors. If you have a doctor letter then you are good to go and the cops cant really do anything to deny you on that basis. Get the letter BEFORE YOU APPLY!!!!!! Submit the letter WITH YOUR APPLICATION!!!!! Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

Why no ammo? Assuming not hollow points you could juggle the ammo enroute and not violate any laws. Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

Isn't that only if you put the gun on consignment and then decide to get it back instead of selling it? Retrieving a gun you left with the gunsmith for service isn't a transfer. They just log it in and out of their bound book. Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

Rays Sport Shop used to do that before they closed. They had a bank vault. Any place with a gunsmith on premises can do that. Leave it for cleaning. Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

Yup no definition hence judges can make it up as they see fit. NY law says ammunition near gun means loaded. Which makes no sense at all but no surprise there. Moral of the story is don't push it. In some states nothing in chamber with full mag is not loaded. Don't try that here. People can debate the fine points on this forum but ultimately those duscussions are meaningless because the only authoritative opinion is the opinion of the judge hearing your case. Someone ought to request an advisory opinion from the attorney general at some point so at least we can have some clarity and something in writing to rely upon. Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

Technically you may be able to use public transportation although you should check with the carrier involved for their rules (NJ Transit, for instance). Many times there are old rules about declaring and surrendering firearms to the driver or captain or conductor, or outright bans on this on public transportation. Plus the chance of getting robbed. Realistically have someone give you a ride. Make a friend on this forum and split gas. Life is hard enough in NJ without being arrested on a bus. That would be a nightmare. Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk