68 year old Paterson woman defends herself with old revolver

[Dwarven1 0]

Anyone remember this story? Happened sometime in the early 80's, IIRC. Vera something was her name, I think. She shot an intruder in her apartment with a gun that her husband had bought like 30 years previously and never fired.

 

Anyway, if anyone can find a copy of this story online, I'd appreciate it - need it for a debate I'm having with a friend. (She wants a shotgun 'cause someone threatened her neighbor with a knife... but she's got all sorts of anti-gun BS in her mind still. :roll: Need some facts to counteract her bullsh*t).

[ronoverdrive 0]

Well the fact she wants a shotgun already shows promise... just curious what kind of anti-gun bs is floating around in her head.

[Dwarven1 0]

You asked for it, you got it.

 

Her first email:

What's the essential deal involving shotgun ownership in Boston? And presumably practice range stuff? I understand that a decent shotgun runs from $75-$200; how much is range time?

 

 

Not that tonight's adventure of the drunk down the hall pulling a knife on a terrified professional lady, who rightly ran screaming attempted rape, has anything to do with this query. Nor the fact that my goddamn hard-wired internal paladin opened our door and scooped the lady in while simultaneously calling Boston's Finest. Nope. Just thought I'd ask, sorta random-like.

 

My reply:

Oh, my. You poor devil. You're living in one of the WORST states in the union to arm yourself, but I'll help you out.

 

Here's some info on getting a License To Carry in Boston:

 

All things considered, since the price is going to be the same, you might as well go for the Class A LTC. You'll want to ask for it for All Lawful Purposes - that exact phrase. Nowadays, that means that the permit will say under "Restrictions" None. Boston is highly unlikely to let you have it, and will probably give you a Sporting / Target one instead - basically, you can carry a sidearm while handgun hunting, and you can own it. Very important point: In MA, you MUST have some sort of permit to even OWN a gun. Although... given you're a Ph. D and can put down Dr. Joan Q Citizen on your application instead of just plain Ms Joan Q. Citizen, you may manage to get the unrestricted permit.

 

So... You need to get a basic class, first. I can put you in touch with some instructors, or you can look here for some. I know many of those folks personally. If you need to, I can help you get out to a class as I'm unemployed at the moment.

 

Then you need to join a club. If you have a car, Braintree Rifle and Pistol is a popular one to join for Boston residents (they have a LOT of members who join for the sole reason that they're forced to do so by the BPD's procedures). I belong to one in Harvard. Or there's Boston Gun and Rifle Association in Dorchester, but I don't think that they have a skeet & trap range (if you're looking for a shotgun). Given that the costs are the same for the FID and the LTC, I'd recommend getting the LTC and getting a handgun. I'm not much of a shotgunner, but I'm pretty good with a handgun and can teach you. AND you can practice on your own at BGRA with a handgun.

 

Once you've joined the club, you need a letter from them saying you're a member. Only now can you apply to the BPD for your license. AND you need to take a basic test out at Moon Island, shooting a BPD-supplied revolver. (I'd be happy to teach you to shoot a revolver so you don't need yet another class (which is recommended in the first link I sent you).)

 

Figure that this will all take at least three months, if not more. BPD has to, legally, respond to your application within 40 days, but in practice they may not.

 

Oh, yes... one other thing. Are there any problems in your past? Arrests, convictions, or have you ever been confined to a mental hospital? Any of these are a problem... and if you say yes to them, I'd recommend you contact a lawyer FIRST. Again, if you need one, I know a few good ones.

 

Feel free to give me a buzz to talk this over more - if you want, shoot an email to and I'll call you back - I have free LD with the new package now.

 

Her reply:

Hm. Looks like something to budget for; but eventually doable. Except for the car bit. They have a gun club in Dorchie? Um . . .

 

My CORI is virginal (it's been run at least twice if not more at varying stages in the homelessness saga.) The only question is re that psychiatric thang. I looked at the language of the app, and (especially in the context of the rest) it seems that they mean "been confined to" as committed by others, i.e., the gummint.

 

I've checked myself in several times, but always personally and voluntarily. It doesn't seem that that should count. Any chance you can ask one of your pals a single freebie question?

 

OK, maybe we'll get into it over this, but a lot about this sounds pretty reasonable. (Obviously) I'm all for the right to, etc. But that said, I'm really glad that paranoid schizophrenics and arm-long CORI people have a barrier. I'm also glad about the processing time; it sucks for the scenario of the desperate woman wanting immediate defense from a stalker/abuser--but it also cuts down on the human desire to just shoot anybody you want on a whim.

 

The only one of these I have serious problems with ideologically is the right to OWN--however, I can see the no duh reason there, much as I hate to admit it. I think there's a huge 2d amendment fantasy out there about gun owners all being these clever heroic types who can drop a squirrel in the eye from half a mile away while reloading another piece with their teeth. (Not to mention being white. Every single last pro-gun activist/supporter/whatever I've seen has been white. I guess everybody knows what the rest of us do with our guns; from what I've heard directly from a lot of gun nuts, the spectre of people like me having weapons is part of their main claim. But I digress.) [comment from Ross: Like Obama, one of her parents was white - thus this comment] In reality, most of the bangers handle guns better than Joe Schmoe, because the bangers have a marginally better idea of how they work. One of my friends' mom is missing a leg bc Dad shot her in the knee while cleaning his gun.

 

People are morons. Forget hero vigilantes who put down evildoers on public transit: If everybody in Boston could just go out and buy a gun, the city would be decimated within a month, many by strays, and the other 90% would be fleeing. (With their guns, though.) A huge irony, btw, is that the "only criminals would have guns" thing would be largely nullified: If criminals are caught with guns they legally own, there goes a lot of nice easy stuff demonstrating that they are criminals.

 

If the NRA put some of their lobbying fund back into teaching people how to minimize their assholery, they'd do the cause a lot of good. (I'd never heard of a range test before, but woohoo!! Cuts down on collateral damage, and helps ensure the sucka stays dropped.)

 

God I'm a crank. Maybe I *shouldn't* be armed.

 

My responses:

Oh, dear. Seems like your feelings are just a tad confused, here, my friend.

 

If you checked YOURSELF in, that's not a problem. It's if you've been committed that's the problem. This question has come up before on NorthEast Shooters, and we've had lawyers answer that question already. So it sounds like you're good to go.

 

When you're ready, let me know. I can ask around for instructors who charge less than BGRA does. Riverside Rod & Gun has a basic class once a month that's only $50 for non members, and I could be talked into picking you up and bringing you home (I think you'd have to say something like: "Hey, Dwarf, can you give me a ride to the class?".)

 

Shooting is similarly not a problem. I like shooting with company, and not so much shooting alone. Teaching is fun, too... I'm on the waiting list for an NRA instructor's class in November.

 

As for the rest of your comments, I'll leave it with two observations: 1 - the first gun control laws on the books (back in the early 1800's) were "Jim Crow" laws, specifically meant to keep the n***ers from having guns. Gun control is no less racist today. Being one of a minority who got disarmed, historically, I'm not real in favor of them. (In case you hadn't noticed - the gangbangers already HAVE guns; it's the law-abiding citizens that are disarmed by gun control laws. Try looking in the mirror and thinking about that). 2 - I need to introduce you to some of the black gun owners I know.

OK, a lot of this has been bothering me and I just NEED to rebut it.

 

At 11:38 PM 8/26/2009, you wrote:

OK, maybe we'll get into it over this, but a lot about this sounds pretty reasonable. (Obviously) I'm all for the right to, etc. But that said, I'm really glad that paranoid schizophrenics and arm-long CORI people have a barrier.

 

So what you're saying is that committing a crime means that they forfeit one of their rights as an American citizen? They get to vote, though, don't they? How about free speech? Do they lose that? What about the poor schlep who got caught with a half ounce of pot when he was 19... and now he's 50, having lead the last 31 years as a perfectly law-abiding citizen? He can't get a gun either?

 

I don't know how to write a law that says that some murderous thug like Michael J. DelCarpine can't ever buy a gun again but the 50 year old in my last sentence can... but we should.

 

 

I'm also glad about the processing time; it sucks for the scenario of the desperate woman wanting immediate defense from a stalker/abuser--but it also cuts down on the human desire to just shoot anybody you want on a whim.

 

Uh-huh. I wonder if you'd say the same thing if your ex-husband had been a violent sort who beat you up on a regular basis. There have been too many instances of women who used a gun that they just bought to defend themselves - successfully, and many times lethally, and too many instances of women who were caught in the situation your neighbor was in getting killed because they could NOT defend themselves for me to think that this is a good idea.

 

 

The only one of these I have serious problems with ideologically is the right to OWN--however, I can see the no duh reason there, much as I hate to admit it. I think there's a huge 2d amendment fantasy out there about gun owners all being these clever heroic types who can drop a squirrel in the eye from half a mile away while reloading another piece with their teeth.

 

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here - you may have been watching too may Hollyweird movies. I don't go hunting squirrels at half a mile (although I CAN drop a man at a QUARTER of a mile if needed), and that's not why I carry. I carry because I'm almost 50, short, overweight, out of shape, arthritic and because when seconds count, a cop is only minutes away. You DO remember Harvey, right?[friend of ours who was killed many years ago... by a felon armed with a gun. In NYC.] Ultimately, we are each responsible for our own safety... and the Brady bunch has been spreading too many lies about how hard it is to use a gun, and how likely someone is to have it taken away from them and turned on them... That's a load of BS. I can't find it now, but I remember a 68 year old woman in Paterson shooting an intruder in her apartment with a 30+ year old revolver her late husband had bought her. She'd never fired it in her life before... and she dropped the guy.

 

(Not to mention being white. Every single last pro-gun activist/supporter/whatever I've seen has been white. I guess everybody knows what the rest of us do with our guns; from what I've heard directly from a lot of gun nuts, the spectre of people like me having weapons is part of their main claim. But I digress.)

 

I've already addressed this one. But you might want to watch this:

and part two:

 

Are you planning on robbing or killing someone? No? Then why should I care if you are armed? BTW... were you aware that the guy who was open-carrying an AR-15 at the protest rally in Arizona... was black? MSNBC saw fit to edit his face out so you couldn't tell... but I've seen unedited clips of the gentleman.

 

In reality, most of the bangers handle guns better than Joe Schmoe, because the bangers have a marginally better idea of how they work. One of my friends' mom is missing a leg bc Dad shot her in the knee while cleaning his gun.

 

Yeah, and there are a lot of bikers who are missing legs, too, and machinists who are missing fingers. ANY machine can be used carelessly. That's why the National Rifle Association has thousands and thousands of instructors who TEACH gun safety. Your friend's dad is a careless idiot who broke all four gun safety rules.

 

The Four Safety Rules:

 

1. All firearms are always loaded - Yup, he forgot to treat that gun as loaded - you ALWAYS assume the gun is loaded and UNLOAD it first when cleaning it.

2. Never let the muzzle of a firearm point at anything you are not willing to destroy - Pointed at his wife - what a f*cking moron.

3. Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot - Guns do NOT go off by themselves - he had his booger hook on the bang switch when it shouldn't have been.

4. Be sure of your target and what lies beyond it - Obviously, he wasn't...

 

If he'd obeyed even ONE of these rules, his wife would still have her leg.

 

 

People are morons. Forget hero vigilantes who put down evildoers on public transit: If everybody in Boston could just go out and buy a gun, the city would be decimated within a month, many by strays, and the other 90% would be fleeing. (With their guns, though.)

 

Horseshit, pure and simple. Every gun-fearing idiot makes this prediction when concealed carry laws are enacted - Wild West, blood in the streets, blah, blah, blah... can you name me ONE SINGLE PLACE where this has happened? No, you can't - because it NEVER HAS. Concealed carry permit holders have been investigated to a fare-thee-well, and have a crime rate that is damn near unmeasurable because it's so LOW.

 

Tell me.... do you know what the crime rate in Vermont and New Hampshire is? Hint: it's way lower than Boston. Why? In Vermont you don't even need a permit to carry concealed!! In NH, it's a $10 permit. Don't want to pay the $10? Then open carry - walk down the street with your gun and holster clearly visible. Strange... they don't have near the crime we do here in MA. BECAUSE THE CROOKS DON'T KNOW WHO IS ARMED AND WHO WILL BLOW THEIR BRAINS OUT IF THEY TRY TO ASSAULT THEM. Crooks fear an armed "victim" the most. And almost all people don't really want to KILL someone.

 

 

A huge irony, btw, is that the "only criminals would have guns" thing would be largely nullified: If criminals are caught with guns they legally own, there goes a lot of nice easy stuff demonstrating that they are criminals.

 

Again, I have no idea what you're saying here. My suggestion is that MA judges need to be ELECTED, so that we can clear out some of the idiots who seem to think that police work is supposed to be catch & release. Unfortunately, there's no way to get rid of those idiots... and as a rule, the gangbangers get their wrists slapped, and they're back out on the street in short order.

 

 

If the NRA put some of their lobbying fund back into teaching people how to minimize their assholery, they'd do the cause a lot of good.

 

I can see that you've never actually seen what the NRA does. Try looking here: http://www.nra.org/programs.aspx The NRA offers the Eddie Eagle program for kids (if you find a gun, Stop! Leave the area! Tell an adult!), the Women On Target program (teaches women how to shoot in female only classes), Youth Programs that teaches kids safe gun handling and how to shoot and how to hunt, training for Law Enforcement Officers... do you know who teaches more cops how to shoot than anyone else? Right... the NRA.

 

The NRA was FOUNDED to teach Americans how to shoot! http://www.nra.org/aboutus.aspx We didn't start with politics until the politicians started trying to disarm the American public.

 

(I'd never heard of a range test before, but woohoo!! Cuts down on collateral damage, and helps ensure the sucka stays dropped.)

 

Good idea, but it's all too easy for such a thing to be used to keep "undesirables" from getting an LTC. If you get the feeling I don't trust government... you're right. It's all too easy for a "civil servant" to morph into a "civil master". All you have to do is hold the test out somewhere where there's no public transportation... like, say, an island in Boston Harbor. Voila - you have a defacto gun ban on people too poor to own a car. BTW... it's against MA laws to require the test... but don't bother to try to fight it. You'll lose; it's been tried.

 

As you can see, I've got an uphill battle on my hands here... but I will not stop in my quest to turn her into a gun nut!

[coldsolderjoint 84]

zomg.. the words burn my eyes... cliff's notes?

[matt6669 71]

it actually wasn't that bad of a read.

 

And this is the biggest problem going on in America right now. Your friend is about 90% of the population. Ill informed by the LOVELY media and only believe what MSNBC says instead of actually doing their own research to form their own opinions.

 

It really is a shame how brain washed America has become

[djg0770 481]

Excellent replies to her mis-information. Especially directing her to the NRA's roots and their Eddie Eagle program.

[ronoverdrive 0]

Yeesh, best of luck to ya with her. Maybe you should take her to the range and/or a few NRA classes. That should help the deprogramming. :mrgreen:

[GoNRA 12]

I agree classes helped me, I was skeptical about firearms. The NRA safety course helped alot, seeing as the instructor was so at ease with firearms. Made me more comfortable in getting to learn and handle them. So I would agree with the classes, they will help alot.

[Dwarven1 0]

Yeesh, best of luck to ya with her. Maybe you should take her to the range and/or a few NRA classes. That should help the deprogramming. :mrgreen:

Oh, believe me - she IS going to the range with me. I'm also going to try and find her a Basic Handgun Safety course in Boston, since she needs it for her LTC.

 

In the meantime... doesn't ANYONE remember Vera whatshername who defended herself in Paterson, NJ back in the 80's? I'd REALLY like to find an online reference to her.

 

What I remember: I'm pretty sure her first name was Vera and she was 68 when this happened. She'd had some friends over to her apt, I think, and she heard a noise in her front hall. She went out and discovered a black male, 30's, approx 6', standing there. They were both startled and he ran... but came back later. Meantime, this lady had gotten an old revolver from her bedroom that her husband had bought some thirty years earlier. Intruder came in, old lady discovered that she had the courage to stand up to the intruder. Result? The thirty year old ammo worked... and I seem to remember it was a one-shot stop, too, as he dropped where he stood.

 

This ringing any bells? Can anyone help me? I've tried googling what details I remember but apparently it's not specific enough.