Not your everyday hollow point question...

[Pew Pew Plates 358]

I generally understand the NJ hollow point thing. Legal to buy, bring home, bring to range etc but nowhere else.

 

OK: So what if I lawfully hold a FL CCW, and I'm traveling to PA to carry. Can I have hollow points in the vehicle? I know you can if going to a range, hunting, etc.

 

Obviously following the transport laws while I do it, cased, locked, seperate from gun

[GRIZ 3,369]

If you go to the link on the NJSP website:

 

http://njsp.org/about/fire_hollow.html

 

They talk about travelling to another state for a lawful purpose with the firearm and ammunition. I think your FL CCW supports this. However, as with every gun law in NJ there is no hard and fast answer.

 

I'd do it if I were in your circumstances.

[waif69 0]

I am not an attorney, but I agree with Griz.

[Guest]

if legal at point of departure + legal at destination federal law preempts any state law in this instance -

[PK90 3,570]

+1

 

Besides, aren't you going to a range in FL?

[galapoola 102]

if legal at point of departure + legal at destination federal law preempts any state law in this instance -

 

You'd think, but if that were the case then why can you be arrested in NY and NYC fore doing just that? They have some goofy law that says you need a special permit to traverse NYC with a handgun irrespective of the federal law. You'd think that law would be irrelevant but that doesn't stop NYC PD from arresting people. So for instance if I leave NJ and stow my 45 and ammo as prescribed on my way to a state in New England where I can legally carry, I can still be arrested. Unfortunately even when a federal law is supposed to preempt the state laws a local can still arrest you and you have to go to court. Then you're still at the mercy of the a local judge.

Look at DC, even though SCOTUS knocked down their law someone still had to to sue to get it enforced. Chicago, DC, NY, NJ, CA and similar will all go kicking and screaming no matter what the Bill of Rights says. I read where the goons in Philly actually tried to ignore CCW when it first became the law of the state and it took the attorney general coming out and saying he'd march in there with the state police if they didn't tow the line. They tried to pull some crap about a class 1 city. Even to this day I hear that the Philly PD will harass people with valid CCW permits.

[djg0770 481]

if they didn't tow the line.

 

FYI, the expression is TOE the line. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toe_the_line

[kenw 293]

if they didn't tow the line.

 

FYI, the expression is TOE the line. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toe_the_line

I vote we make Dan the official NJGF FLO (Forum Language Officer) and give him his very own color, along with the rights to edit posts for spelling errors, abuses of grammar and syntax and other attacks on the English language. He could even have the ability to do strikethroughs and corrections in red ink.

[djg0770 481]

if they didn't tow the line.

 

FYI, the expression is TOE the line. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toe_the_line

I vote we make Dan the official NJGF FLO (Forum Language Officer) and give him his very own color, along with the rights to edit posts for spelling errors, abuses of grammar and syntax and other attacks on the English language. He could even have the ability to do strikethroughs and corrections in red ink.

 

I thought you were on my side Ken. :ugeek:

[kenw 293]

I thought you were on my side Ken. :ugeek:

I am on your side. I think you should be officially recognized for your ongoing dedication to excellence in wordsmanship. If not for you (and to a much lesser extent, me), we'd still be seeing "for all intensive porpoises" and other such linguistic abominations.

[mipafox 438]

If you go to the link on the NJSP website:

 

http://njsp.org/about/fire_hollow.html

 

They talk about travelling to another state for a lawful purpose with the firearm and ammunition. I think your FL CCW supports this. However, as with every gun law in NJ there is no hard and fast answer.

 

I'd do it if I were in your circumstances.

 

Be careful. "Lawful purpose" seems to include NJ requirements even if you are traveling out of state. I'm pretty sure (not a lawyer) that if you are taking handguns or hollowpoints out of NJ that all NJ restrictions apply in full. Most of those restrictions include the NJ acceptability of your destination. NJ requirements include ranges with charters submitted to NJSP and hunting licenses and other things I don't know about. I saw there was some mealy mouthed discussion of hunting licenses on your NJSP link but I did not read about an exception if you have a hunting license from out of state. You have to prove your innocence in NJ if you don't pass the scrutiny of the Trooper.

 

You are not free to take handguns or hollowpoints out of NJ simply because you are going to another state. Keep in mind that transportation of both items are by default illegal in NJ with EXCEPTIONS. There is no right to bear arms in the NJ constitution.

 

For FOPA disciples, you are NOT protected in your state of origin or your state of destination simply due to interstate travel. You must obey NJ laws even if you are leaving the state.

 

I have only passing familiarity with NJ laws at best. These are things I've picked up from people that know NJ law and consequences very well. It's a big topic in Eastern PA where people are allowed to have and carry guns and ammo and are concerned about NJ, in both directions. So, please don't take my observations on any of this as gospel. Consider it suggestions of things you want to check and be sure of.

[shooter28 153]

Be careful. "Lawful purpose" seems to include NJ requirements even if you are traveling out of state. I'm pretty sure (not a lawyer) that if you are taking handguns or hollowpoints out of NJ that all NJ restrictions apply in full. Most of those restrictions include the NJ acceptability of your destination. NJ requirements include ranges with charters submitted to NJSP and hunting licenses and other things I don't know about. I saw there was some mealy mouthed discussion of hunting licenses on your NJSP link but I did not read about an exception if you have a hunting license from out of state. You have to prove your innocence in NJ if you don't pass the scrutiny of the Trooper.

 

You are not free to take handguns or hollowpoints out of NJ simply because you are going to another state. Keep in mind that transportation of both items are by default illegal in NJ with EXCEPTIONS. There is no right to bear arms in the NJ constitution.

 

For FOPA disciples, you are NOT protected in your state of origin or your state of destination simply due to interstate travel. You must obey NJ laws even if you are leaving the state.

 

I have only passing familiarity with NJ laws at best. These are things I've picked up from people that know NJ law and consequences very well. It's a big topic in Eastern PA where people are allowed to have and carry guns and ammo and are concerned about NJ, in both directions. So, please don't take my observations on any of this as gospel. Consider it suggestions of things you want to check and be sure of.

 

Maybe I am just reading this wrong or my understanding of NJ law is completely off but this does not sound right to me. Possesion of a handgun and HP ammo is legal in NJ. You are allowed to keep those items in your home. Those items are also legal and can be carried assuming you have the proper licensing in PA(which he does). There should be no reason he cannot transport those items back and forth between the states. As long as everything is locked up in transit until he hits the PA boarder, FOPA protects him. On the return trip, again, everything must be locked up properly. The only thing to watch out for is that he must be going directly to PA or directly home. He cannot be driving around NJ with a gun in his trunk. In PA, I'm pretty sure he would be allowed to.

[mipafox 438]

Maybe I am just reading this wrong or my understanding of NJ law is completely off but this does not sound right to me. Possesion of a handgun and HP ammo is legal in NJ. You are allowed to keep those items in your home. Those items are also legal and can be carried assuming you have the proper licensing in PA(which he does). There should be no reason he cannot transport those items back and forth between the states. As long as everything is locked up in transit until he hits the PA boarder, FOPA protects him. On the return trip, again, everything must be locked up properly. The only thing to watch out for is that he must be going directly to PA or directly home. He cannot be driving around NJ with a gun in his trunk. In PA, I'm pretty sure he would be allowed to.

 

You probably know NJ law much better than I do. I don't even know where to find the statute. I thought possession of any firearm in NJ was written as illegal unless you meet exceptions? Can somebody help out?

 

As for FOPA, it provides no protection in state of origin or destination. It only provides protection for intermediate states you are traveling through.

 

As for what he can do, I have no idea. This subject has come up a lot on PAFOA. The consensus there is that transportation starting or ending in NJ is fully subject to NJ laws. Which includes NJ laws that permit transportation only with exceptions for certain approved locations - locations approved by NJSP. Changing residences would be one. Simply leaving the state is not listed. Going from memory here.

 

EDIT: I noticed the statutes of NJ law are not posted in any of the stickies at the top of this forum section.

[ianargent 7]

Nothing in subsections b., c. and d. of N.J.S.2C:39-5 shall be construed to prevent:

(1) A member of any rifle or pistol club organized in accordance with the rules prescribed by the National Board for the Promotion of Rifle Practice, in going to or from a place of target practice, carrying such firearms as are necessary for said target practice, provided that the club has filed a copy of its charter with the superintendent and annually submits a list of its members to the superintendent and provided further that the firearms are carried in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section

 

Or

 

(3) A person transporting any firearm or knife while traveling

 

Directly to or from any target range, or other authorized place for the purpose of practice, match, target, trap or skeet shooting exhibitions, provided in all cases that during the course of the travel all firearms are carried in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section and the person has complied with all the provisions and requirements of Title 23 of the Revised Statutes and any amendments thereto and all rules and regulations promulgated thereunder

 

Above excerpted from 2C:39-6 subsection f (other places in that area permit the posession at home or a fixed place of business, at a gun store or place to repair, in transit between permitted area, etc)

 

Subsection g

g.All weapons being transported under paragraph (2) of subsection b., subsection e., or paragraph (1) or (3) of subsection f. of this section shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported, and in the course of travel shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.

 

(3) seems to cover what (1) does as well as much more, so I don't see the point of (1). Perhaps (3) was added later?

 

Note, BTW, that the law as recorded in 2C:39-5 subsection c

Rifles and shotguns. (1) Any person who knowingly has in his possession any rifle or shotgun without having first obtained a firearms purchaser identification card in accordance with the provisions of N.J.S.2C:58-3, is guilty of a crime of the third degree. So for the FID holder, in statute law, the FID drops the requirement to transport under 2C:39-6 e,f,g...

 

IANAL and you should consult the relevant case law as well (particularly before driving around without securing your longarm)

[Guest]

 

EDIT: I noticed the statutes of NJ law are not posted in any of the stickies at the top of this forum section.

 

i asked for some solid links to COMPLETE nj gun law as its written.. NOT someones notes... NOT the AG guidelines.. i was looking for the COMPLETE nj gun laws.. used to have a link to them but it is dead now..

[djg0770 481]

 

EDIT: I noticed the statutes of NJ law are not posted in any of the stickies at the top of this forum section.

 

i asked for some solid links to COMPLETE nj gun law as its written.. NOT someones notes... NOT the AG guidelines.. i was looking for the COMPLETE nj gun laws.. used to have a link to them but it is dead now..

 

Since you asked so nicely :roll:

 

New Jersey Permanent Statutes Database

http://lis.njleg.state.nj.us/cgi-bin/om ... k=&record={1789}&softpage=Doc_Frame_Pg42&wordsaroundhits=2&x=46&y=8&zz=

[ianargent 7]

I use the link the the statutes from here - http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/about/fire_ag2.html and click on the Chapter 39 link; then hit Search.

 

Mind the disclaimer at the bottom ot the NJ Permanent Statutes page.

[Guest]

 

EDIT: I noticed the statutes of NJ law are not posted in any of the stickies at the top of this forum section.

 

i asked for some solid links to COMPLETE nj gun law as its written.. NOT someones notes... NOT the AG guidelines.. i was looking for the COMPLETE nj gun laws.. used to have a link to them but it is dead now..

 

Since you asked so nicely :roll:

 

New Jersey Permanent Statutes Database

http://lis.njleg.state.nj.us/cgi-bin/om ... k=&record={1789}&softpage=Doc_Frame_Pg42&wordsaroundhits=2&x=46&y=8&zz=

that link does not work...

[Guest]

I use the link the the statutes from here - http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/about/fire_ag2.html and click on the Chapter 39 link; then hit Search.

 

Mind the disclaimer at the bottom ot the NJ Permanent Statutes page.

 

 

great thanks..

[djg0770 481]

i asked for some solid links to COMPLETE nj gun law as its written.. NOT someones notes... NOT the AG guidelines.. i was looking for the COMPLETE nj gun laws.. used to have a link to them but it is dead now..

 

Since you asked so nicely :roll:

 

New Jersey Permanent Statutes Database

http://lis.njleg.state.nj.us/cgi-bin/om ... k=&record={1789}&softpage=Doc_Frame_Pg42&wordsaroundhits=2&x=46&y=8&zz=

that link does not work...

 

Yeah - since you can't seem to cut and paste...

 

http://tinyurl.com/y9rc7vc

[Guest]

 

Yeah - since you can't seem to cut and paste...

 

http://tinyurl.com/y9rc7vc

 

i DID cut and paster.. if you cut and paste the exact link you posted.. it does not work for me..

[ianargent 7]

The direct link rarely works for me - that's why I gateway through the state police.

[djg0770 481]

 

Yeah - since you can't seem to cut and paste...

 

http://tinyurl.com/y9rc7vc

 

i DID cut and paster.. if you cut and paste the exact link you posted.. it does not work for me..

 

Ahh F - you are correct. Let me stick my attitude where the sun don't shine. :shifty: