So a FFL told me hollow points are illegal for self defense

[SafetyHit 1]

Do you have any input to the actual conversation or just like insulting others?

 

 

My input here would be essentially irrelevant now since the law was not only posted verbatim here in this thread, but also well discussed. Therefore it is on you to explain your failure to comprehend what is available for you to read at will.

 

As far as the man I singled out, his advice is not only factually and legally flawed, it is ridiculous and a discredit coming from someone who runs a club that evolved around firearms.

[HODGIE 3]

Therefore it is on you to explain your failure to comprehend what is available for you to read at will.

 

I already knew the law before I posted so nothing is on me.

I guess it just makes some people feel better by downing others via the internet.

 

As far as the man I singled out, his advice is not only factually and legally flawed, it is ridiculous and a discredit coming from someone who runs a club that evolved around firearms.

 

I bet You couldnt find me one FFL, LE officer or NJ politician who knows every gun law and that's a fact.

Been in a lot of shops in a lot of states and have heard a lot of BS.

 

Have a great night big guy. :roll:

[SafetyHit 1]

I guess it just makes some people feel better by downing others via the internet.

 

While I may be blunt at times, I loathe others who do what you describe above. I am not looking to demean anybody, ever. I just become frustrated with folks who post statements in such a definitive manner that are full of falsehoods.

 

If you or I want to learn, ideally we ask. That is what a forum like this is for. But if you or I just want to spout baseless nonsense, this with a degree of authority, then be prepared to have your bluff called.

 

I don't think there is any real harm there, do you?

[NJgunowner86 0]

Buy local... hmmm.. I never thought of that I buy 98% of my ammo online, so I forget to even look for ammo locally

 

Same, I buy ammo online. Can't stand buying it in NJ and being treated like a sex offender at the time of purchase.

 

we are just following the laws that our elected officials have instated. as far as the hollowpoint thing.. a member of mine was arrested for having hollowpoints in his gun at his house. so i dont know how full of it he is. your best bet.. shoot 2-3-4 times then it doesnt matter if they are hollow points.

 

Understood. And as a consumer, I choose to vote with my dollars buy from sellers who live in places where they can sell me ammo without having to humiliate me.

 

As for your second statement, I'm in disbelief that this is actually coming from the mouth of a "reputable" business member.

[DirtyDigz 1,812]

... since the law was not only posted verbatim here in this thread, but also well discussed. ...

 

Actually, I don't think we've had the actual text of N.J.S.A 2C:39-3f(1) posted yet. What's been posted in the State Police's advice/interpretation of N.J.S.A 2C:39-3f(1) in regards to hollow point ammunition.

 

Been trying to google it with no luck - anyone got the actual statute for N.J.S.A 2C:39-3f(1)?

[wsl 2]

f.Dum-dum or body armor penetrating bullets. (1) Any person, other than a law enforcement officer or persons engaged in activities pursuant to subsection f. of N.J.S.2C:39-6, who knowingly has in his possession any hollow nose or dum-dum bullet

 

So yes, an uninformed officer who doesn't know what he's doing could arrest you, but you'd have to have an incompetent DA, judge and lawyer to actually charge you with anything. Its still used for those that have other charges and makes the sentence bigger, but it has no teeth on its own to us because of the exemptions in 39-6, which is basically what's on the State Police site.

 

The reason the state police made the clarification on their website, is because hollow point doesn't fall under armor piercing. It was a myth at the time the statute was written. Its the reason Black Talon (cop killer) bullets were trashed in the Main stream media, and of course everyone believes it.

 

And this is why you have to know the law yourself, just incase the people you're dealing with don't know.

[wsl 2]

http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/

 

then search thru statutes to find each one.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

How can something illegal be made more illegal?

 

Is there really a difference between: I shot someone --and-- I shot someone with hollow points? Shouldn't the punishment just come from the mere act of shooting? Not what you did it with?

 

Legislators.... morons.

[DirtyDigz 1,812]

http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/

 

then search thru statutes to find each one.

 

Thanks! So here's the actual statute:

 

f.Dum-dum or body armor penetrating bullets.? (1) Any person, other than a law enforcement officer or persons engaged in activities pursuant to subsection f. of N.J.S.2C:39-6, who knowingly has in his possession any hollow nose or dum-dum bullet, or (2) any person, other than a collector of firearms or ammunition as curios or relics as defined in Title 18, United States Code, section 921 (a) (13) and has in his possession a valid Collector of Curios and Relics License issued by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, who knowingly has in his possession any body armor breaching or penetrating ammunition, which means:? (a) ammunition primarily designed for use in a handgun, and (b) which is comprised of a bullet whose core or jacket, if the jacket is thicker than.025 of an inch, is made of tungsten carbide, or hard bronze, or other material which is harder than a rating of 72 or greater on the Rockwell B. Hardness Scale, and © is therefore capable of breaching or penetrating body armor, is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree.? For purposes of this section, a collector may possess not more than three examples of each distinctive variation of the ammunition described above. A distinctive variation includes a different head stamp, composition, design, or color.

 

g.Exceptions.? (1)? Nothing in subsection a., b., c., d., e., f., j. or k. of this section shall apply to any member of the Armed Forces of the United States or the National Guard, or except as otherwise provided, to any law enforcement officer while actually on duty or traveling to or from an authorized place of duty, provided that his possession of the prohibited weapon or device has been duly authorized under the applicable laws, regulations or military or law enforcement orders.? Nothing in subsection h. of this section shall apply to any law enforcement officer who is exempted from the provisions of that subsection by the Attorney General.? Nothing in this section shall apply to the possession of any weapon or device by a law enforcement officer who has confiscated, seized or otherwise taken possession of said weapon or device as evidence of the commission of a crime or because he believed it to be possessed illegally by the person from whom it was taken, provided that said law enforcement officer promptly notifies his superiors of his possession of such prohibited weapon or device.

 

(2)? a.? Nothing in subsection f. (1) shall be construed to prevent a person from keeping such ammunition at his dwelling, premises or other land owned or possessed by him, or from carrying such ammunition from the place of purchase to said dwelling or land, nor shall subsection f. (1) be construed to prevent any licensed retail or wholesale firearms dealer from possessing such ammunition at its licensed premises, provided that the seller of any such ammunition shall maintain a record of the name, age and place of residence of any purchaser who is not a licensed dealer, together with the date of sale and quantity of ammunition sold.

 

b.Nothing in subsection f.(1) shall be construed to prevent a designated? employee or designated licensed agent for a nuclear power plant under the license of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission from possessing hollow nose ammunition while in the actual performance of his official duties, if the federal licensee certifies that the designated employee or designated licensed agent is assigned to perform site protection, guard, armed response or armed escort duties and is appropriately trained and qualified, as prescribed by federal regulation, to perform those duties.

 

(3)Nothing in paragraph (2) of subsection f. or in subsection j. shall be construed to prevent any licensed retail or wholesale firearms dealer from possessing that ammunition or large capacity ammunition magazine at its licensed premises for sale or disposition to another licensed dealer, the Armed Forces of the United States or the National Guard, or to a law enforcement agency, provided that the seller maintains a record of any sale or disposition to a law enforcement agency.? The record shall include the name of the purchasing agency, together with written authorization of the chief of police or highest ranking official of the agency, the name and rank of the purchasing law enforcement officer, if applicable, and the date, time and amount of ammunition sold or otherwise disposed. A copy of this record shall be forwarded by the seller to the Superintendent of the Division of State Police within 48 hours of the sale or disposition.

[KpdPipes 388]

How can something illegal be made more illegal?

 

Is there really a difference between: I shot someone --and-- I shot someone with hollow points? Shouldn't the punishment just come from the mere act of shooting? Not what you did it with?

 

Legislators.... morons.

 

it isnt more or less llegal, it's just another charge an anti-gun prosecutor can hang on you.

 

Understand one thing, ANY HD incident will be treated as a Homicide. Your Local Police Department WILL NOT BE THE PRIMARY INVESTIGATORS. Homicides are handled at the County Prosecutor's level, even in the cities.

[GoNRA 12]

I just bought them, and I read these posts and it said yes and no for home protection.. read the text that was mentioned in this post and I didn't see it being illegal to use for home protection.

 

wow hollow points are armor piercing? I didn't know that. I just thought they spread more to pack a higher punch. But reading above said it can pierce body armor.

[coldsolderjoint 84]

I just bought them, and I read these posts and it said yes and no for home protection.. read the text that was mentioned in this post and I didn't see it being illegal to use for home protection.

 

wow hollow points are armor piercing? I didn't know that. I just thought they spread more to pack a higher punch. But reading above said it can pierce body armor.

 

You wouldn't be allowed to freely buy what is considered armor piercing handgun ammo from any reputable dealer/store. (Federal Law), so I wouldn't worry about it.

[KpdPipes 388]

I just bought them, and I read these posts and it said yes and no for home protection.. read the text that was mentioned in this post and I didn't see it being illegal to use for home protection.

 

wow hollow points are armor piercing? I didn't know that. I just thought they spread more to pack a higher punch. But reading above said it can pierce body armor.

You seemed to have missed the "OR" in there. Niot that Dum-Dum/Hp ARE Armor Piercing.

[Bob B 103]

The place to look is case law -- a search to find if anyone in NJ has ever been convicted of a crime relating to the use of hollowpoints in a defensive situation at home.

 

However, even if it is legal to use hollowpoints for self-defense in the home, that doesn't mean that the dead criminal's family won't sue you. After all, you didn't have to use hollowpoints. You subjected that poor criminal to more pain and suffering than necessary. He came for your tv and his family got your 401k.

 

This is why we all have to call our legislators and tell them to vote yes for A198/S555, the Castle Doctrine and Stand Your Ground bill that provides for criminal and civil immunity during self-defense and removes any requirement to retreat.

 

http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2010/Bills ... 198_I1.PDF