Bryan Miller on Brian Aitken's Commutation

[Cemeterys Gun Blob 165]

This is the only thing I've found by that S.O.B.

 

Bryan Miller, project director for the anti-gun violence group Ceasefire NJ, said only a "tiny majority" of people actually want to loosen the state’s gun laws. He hopes others don’t see the governor’s decision on Aitken as a precendent for "a get-out-of-jail free card for breaking our gun laws."

 

http://www.northjersey.com/news/state/Gun_owner_released_from_prison_after_Christie_commutes_sentence.html

 

UPDATE: On a side note, I found this interesting thread on facebook http://www.facebook.com/FreeBrianAitken/posts/180283948650154 some more people might be waking to the antigunners BS.

 

UPDATE(2): But Bryan Miller, executive director of CeaseFire NJ, an organization devoted to reducing gun violence, cautioned that gun-rights advocates shouldn't read too much into Christie's decision. "We hope that no one intent on mayhem takes the governor's action to be an indication that New Jersey will be light on gun crime," he said.

 

http://www.philly.com/dailynews/local/20101222_Freed__gun-owner_wants_to_clear_his_name.html?page=2&c=y

 

Is it me, or is Miller trying to link *gun rights advocates* with people with intent for mayhem?

[PDM 91]

A "tiny majority"? I assume he meant a "tiny minority". What a buffoon.

[Cemeterys Gun Blob 165]

A "tiny majority"? I assume he meant a "tiny minority". What a buffoon.

 

lol.....I didn't catch that....

[njpilot 671]

Did anyone read the article in the link? What the f*ck is with these reporters? Is it total ignorance, stupidity or intentional lying to the public? Twice in the article:

 

Aitken, 27, became a cause celebre for gun advocates when he was arrested last year in Mount Laurel for possession of three handguns he legally purchased in Colorado but didn’t have a carry permit for in New Jersey.

 

 

New Jersey gun owners are required to have a carry permit to transport their handguns in a vehicle unless they’re changing residences or going hunting. Aitken had his handguns locked and unloaded in the trunk of his car, as required by law, but didn’t have a carry permit.

[n4p226r 105]

how does this guy even get any publicity? not that any anti-gun nut has a good argument, but he is the least convincing

[BigHayden 77]

Did anyone read the article in the link? What the f*ck is with these reporters? Is it total ignorance, stupidity or intentional lying to the public? Twice in the article:

 

Aitken, 27, became a cause celebre for gun advocates when he was arrested last year in Mount Laurel for possession of three handguns he legally purchased in Colorado but didn’t have a carry permit for in New Jersey.

 

 

New Jersey gun owners are required to have a carry permit to transport their handguns in a vehicle unless they’re changing residences or going hunting. Aitken had his handguns locked and unloaded in the trunk of his car, as required by law, but didn’t have a carry permit.

 

 

Actually, the article was pretty accurate and not nearly as one sided and some of the others I've read. The bit you highlighted about the carry permit is true. It's missing the bits about going to and from the range and a gun store/gunsmith, but otherwise I'm not sure why you seem to have your knickers in a twist...

[ianargent 7]

I'm sorry - I LOL'd when I read the "tiny majority" bit. That's gotta be a misquote. Either that or Brian Miller has lost his fingernail grip on his illusions.

[njpilot 671]

Actually, the article was pretty accurate and not nearly as one sided and some of the others I've read. The bit you highlighted about the carry permit is true. It's missing the bits about going to and from the range and a gun store/gunsmith, but otherwise I'm not sure why you seem to have your knickers in a twist...

 

The way it's written it sounds like unless you're in the process of moving, you can't have a handgun in you're car. This isn't Chicago. Do your handguns never leave your house?

 

I have taken mine to the range, to PA, to a friends house to do some work on it. The first time they mention it only says that he "was arrested for possession" and "didn't have a carry permit for NJ".

 

Doesn't sound very accurate, again, unless your handguns never leave your house.

[Bob B 103]

The way it's written it sounds like unless you're in the process of moving, you can't have a handgun in you're car. This isn't Chicago. Do your handguns never leave your house?

 

I have taken mine to the range, to PA, to a friends house to do some work on it. The first time they mention it only says that he "was arrested for possession" and "didn't have a carry permit for NJ".

 

Doesn't sound very accurate, again, unless your handguns never leave your house.

 

I think the author was trying to say that you can't be in possession of a handgun without a carry permit unless you are within the exemptions, which is true.

Handguns. Any person who knowingly has in his possession any handgun, including any antique handgun, without first having obtained a permit to carry the same as provided in N.J.S.2C:58-4, is guilty of a crime of the third degree if the handgun is in the nature of an air gun, spring gun or pistol or other weapon of a similar nature in which the propelling force is a spring, elastic band, carbon dioxide, compressed or other gas or vapor, air or compressed air, or is ignited by compressed air, and ejecting a bullet or missile smaller than three-eighths of an inch in diameter, with sufficient force to injure a person. Otherwise it is a crime of the second degree.

 

On another note, NJ2AS is mentioned in the article!

"There’s a big problem with New Jersey gun laws," said Frank Fiamingo of Manahawkin, president of the New Jersey Second Amendment Society. "It’s next to impossible to get a carry permit."

 

Good job Frank!

[Springfield1911 22]

I love this part of the article:

 

"I will be getting out of New Jersey today," he said. "I will be spending the night outside of New Jersey. I’m very excited about that."

 

 

I guess he's not taking any chances anymore in case NJ changes its mind!

[BigHayden 77]

The way it's written it sounds like unless you're in the process of moving, you can't have a handgun in you're car. This isn't Chicago. Do your handguns never leave your house?

 

I have taken mine to the range, to PA, to a friends house to do some work on it. The first time they mention it only says that he "was arrested for possession" and "didn't have a carry permit for NJ".

 

Doesn't sound very accurate, again, unless your handguns never leave your house.

 

But that's just the thing... have you ever actually read the NJ law? Handgun possession is patently illegal unless you have a carry permit. That's what the law says. That's what Brian was convicted of. Yeah, there's the the whole next section which carves out exceptions for your home, business, the range, gun store/gunsmith, and traveling directly to/from those places, but what Bob posted is the text of 2C:39-5.

 

The burden of proof is on you, the gun owner, to show that you are exempt under 2C:39-6; otherwise you are charged under 2C:39-5. I'll see if I can dig up the case law that supports that position. Just so we're clear, I don't think it's right. I'm just letting you know how the law gets applied.

 

Technically, taking your gun to a friend's house is illegal possession under NJ law. Nowhere in 2C:39-6 does it say you can possess your gun at somebody else's house, nor does it exempt travel to/from your friend's house. If you get caught, like Brian did, you'll be facing the same 7 years he did. There's also a lot of debate about traveling to PA too, but I fall into the camp of that should be protected by FOPA.

 

ETA: Found the case law. It's State vs. Dunlap http://www.leagle.com/xmlResult.aspx?xmldoc=1981252181NJSuper71_1241.xml&docbase=CSLWAR1-1950-1985 That guy was found to be violating 2C:39-3e (illegal possession of a gravity knife) and the court basically said that the law gives the defendant a way to argue that the knife was possessed for a lawful purpose, but that the presumption of guilt was A-OK with them.

[kenw 293]

The reports I read said that Brian's argument that he was moving to his new apartment were unconvincing, and that's why the transportation exceptions weren't allowed by the judge. It may be true, it may not. But if he wasn't transporting the guns from an allowed place (his home in Colorado) to an allowed place (his new apartment) directly and without making any unreasonable deviations, then his actions fall outside of the allowed exemptions.

 

We may never know the whole story, and I'm not sure that as a community, we didn't jump on this just a little too enthusiastically. The laws are nefarious and the sentencing guidelines are excessive, and we all want them changed, but if the "truth" is that he was transporting his firearms outside of the narrow allowances that the state so generously grants us mere citizens, then he broke the law. And, as law abiding gun owners who believe that people who break firearms laws (no matter how absurd or punitive they are) make us all look bad as a community.

 

As BigH said, the law makes it illegal to bring your guns to friend's house to shoot on his property, your mom's house to store them while you're on vacation, your neighbor's house to show off your new gun to another enthusiast. The law is clear about under what circumstances and conditions you can be legally transporting a handgun without a carry permit. It makes little sense, it makes criminals out of law-abiding citizens, and it must be challenged and changed, but until then, we have to live under that shadow of fear that the slightest deviation, intentional or not, may put any of us in exactly the same situation.

 

Gun control is never about guns, but always about control.

[kenw 293]

Aitken, 27, became a cause celebre for gun advocates when he was arrested last year in Mount Laurel for possession of three handguns he legally purchased in Colorado but didn’t have a carry permit for in New Jersey.

I don't normally post twice in a row, but I had this thought last night and needed to put it into words.

 

It's time to do whatever we can to change the tone of these conversations. Are we really "gun advocates"? I don't think so.

 

Are carpenters "hammer advocates"? Are chefs "knife advocates"? And especially, are people who are pro-choice on abortion "baby murder advocates"? This kind of extreme rhetoric has to stop. We are Recreational Shooters, or Firearms Competition Enthusiasts or whatever else we are, but we aren't gun advocates. There can't be an advocacy for a thing, any thing. There are no advocacy issue organizations whose goal is based on a thing. They want to eliminate or allow a thing, and the result will be some societal change, but the thing that is their target is secondary to their desired goal.

 

So, we aren't "gun advocates". We're advocates for the rights that are inherent in our humanity, and that our government was chartered to protect and defend. We're advocates for the safety and security of ourselves, our families, and our society. We're advocates for freedom from oppression and tyranny. We're advocates for equality under the law. But, we're not gun advocates. Once we can turn the conversation away from the object, and towards the result, then we may have a chance of being heard.

[Malsua 1,422]

 

Are carpenters "hammer advocates"? Are chefs "knife advocates"?

 

Are people that burn up their nut sack on an airplane "Bomb advocates"?

[vladtepes 1,060]

to a friends house to do some work on it.

 

this has come up in conversation with some of my friends before... technically.. if you do that.. unless your "friends house" also doubles as a licensed gunsmith.. I am pretty sure you are technically breaking the law.. as we know in NJ everything is prohibited with exceptions and "going to your friends house" lol is not worded into the law..

[Bob2222 317]

this has come up in conversation with some of my friends before... technically.. if you do that.. unless your "friends house" also doubles as a licensed gunsmith.. I am pretty sure you are technically breaking the law..

 

 

Does NJ license gunsmiths?

 

That is, if the smith doesn't sell either firearms or ammunition from his shop -- that would require licensing. The NJSP website seems vague about this detail.

[vladtepes 1,060]

Does NJ license gunsmiths?

 

That is, if the smith doesn't sell either firearms or ammunition from his shop -- that would require licensing. The NJSP website seems vague about this detail.

 

 

I am confident that there is some type of licensing process.. at the very least registering a "business" with the town that you live in..

[vladtepes 1,060]

they appear to lump all that stuff together..

 

Q7.

 

 

How do you become a gunsmith, retail or wholesale firearms dealer, or get information on ammunition sales and/or gunsmithing?

 

Download Form

 

 

A7.

 

 

You must first obtain a letter from your local zoning official which states that firearm and/or ammunition sales are permitted from your location.

 

Once you receive this letter, send the original to the:

 

New Jersey State Police

Firearms Investigation Unit

Post Office Box 7068

West Trenton, New Jersey 08628-0068.

 

You will then be sent an application package which should be completed in its entirety and forwarded to the Firearms Investigation Unit.

[BigHayden 77]

It's time to do whatever we can to change the tone of these conversations. Are we really "gun advocates"? I don't think so.

 

How about this? We're civil rights advocates.

[vladtepes 1,060]

How about this? We're civil rights advocates.

 

 

+1

[Bob2222 317]

they appear to lump all that stuff together..

 

That's what I read, too -- "firearm and/or ammunition sales are permitted from your location." What if no firearms sales or ammo sales are involved at the smith's shop?

 

If said friend owns a machine shop, in an area zoned for machine shops, and you wanted, say, a lower tapped and threaded for a screw, is it illegal to have the work done? What about plating or refinishing? Most smiths don't have the capability do that. Where does the gun go?

 

Nappen has said NJ's laws often contradict one another. He seems to make a decent living from all this.

[BigHayden 77]

UPDATE(2): But Bryan Miller, executive director of CeaseFire NJ, an organization devoted to reducing gun violence, cautioned that gun-rights advocates shouldn't read too much into Christie's decision. "We hope that no one intent on mayhem takes the governor's action to be an indication that New Jersey will be light on gun crime," he said.

 

http://www.philly.com/dailynews/local/20101222_Freed__gun-owner_wants_to_clear_his_name.html?page=2&c=y

 

Is it me, or is Miller trying to link *gun rights advocates* with people with intent for mayhem?

 

He's taking a page from Paul Helmke's playbook. The Brady Bunch has been pulling that crap a lot recently too.

[Cemeterys Gun Blob 165]

He's taking a page from Paul Helmke's playbook. The Brady Bunch has been pulling that crap a lot recently too.

 

 

Anything to spread fear, paranoia, and generate cash flow......

 

I expect it to get VERY over the top very soon....

[ianargent 7]

How about this? We're civil rights advocates.

Or "freedom advocates". "human-rights advocates" for pro-carry folks.

[kenw 293]

The problem with the "civil rights advocate" tag is that we're then clumped together with all the entitlement nutjobs who believe that having a nice car is a civil right, free college education for illegals is a civil right, a comfortable retirement is a civil right, gay marriage is a civil right, etc.

 

We need to be separated from them. Maybe "Constitutional rights advocates" would be better.

[kenw 293]

Anything to spread fear, paranoia, and generate cash flow......

 

I expect it to get VERY over the top very soon....

It can't get much more over the top than "Pro-gun forces of darkness", can it?

[Turbofire 2]

Did anyone read the article in the link? What the f*ck is with these reporters? Is it total ignorance, stupidity or intentional lying to the public? Twice in the article:

 

Aitken, 27, became a cause celebre for gun advocates when he was arrested last year in Mount Laurel for possession of three handguns he legally purchased in Colorado but didn’t have a carry permit for in New Jersey.

 

To defend some reporters (plenty of biased ones) it's very difficult to explain this case accurately without a NJ gun law-101 course as a prerequisite. I think some of the misinformation is a result of trying to condense all the info into a short summary for laymen.

Maybe we should go along with the misquote, won't this qualify as demonstrable need for a carry permit?

 

 

I have the same morbid fascination with Miller as I do with Kim Jong Il in that his unwavering faith to his chosen ideology, beyond all human emotion, is astounding.

[njpilot 671]

To me it sounded as if they were deliberately tried to mislead in the story by not mentioning up front that there are exemptions. To me it sounded as if they were just another anti-gunner. We all know the laws suck and are ridiculous.

 

We know Brian did break laws, but if we was living at his parents home, even temporarily, and was now moving his things to his apartment, as far as I know that is covered by the exemptions and doesn't require a carry permit.

 

Just for my own knowledge, can someone tell me which exemption allowed me to transport a handgun to and from EWR when I went on vacation a few months ago, or did I break the law then?

[BigHayden 77]

Just for my own knowledge, can someone tell me which exemption allowed me to transport a handgun to and from EWR when I went on vacation a few months ago, or did I break the law then?

 

If you were renting a property (or own property there), you are covered, as rentals are considered residences. Of course, if your case is heard by a judge like Morley, even that might not help you avoid the 7 year slam sentence.

[vladtepes 1,060]

The problem with the "civil rights advocate" tag is that we're then clumped together with all the entitlement nutjobs who believe that having a nice car is a civil right, free college education for illegals is a civil right, a comfortable retirement is a civil right, gay marriage is a civil right, etc.

 

We need to be separated from them. Maybe "Constitutional rights advocates" would be better.

 

 

all those nut jobs seem to get everything at the slightest hint of lawsuit...

while we get literally nothing..

 

looks to me like being a nut job puts you on the winning team.. maybe we are simply too nice.. maybe we should act as if we are entitled.. after all WE ARE..