Discussion about carrying in your own business

[AnthonyG 36]

Some back story to lead to my question, basically my family has owned a food business for 15+ years but being I was too young to be a co owner in the business when it started. As I got older and owned firearms I never even thought of being able to legally carry in the business plus the need isn't really there for the most part since the local PD is in our store all the time.

 

I had intentions of leaving family business and going off to become a LEO in jersey the waiting game is pretty long here but I was willing to go through the paces. Now it brings me to the purpose of my post few months ago my father came across a new business venture but being hes getting older he could not run it. Few weeks back he made me a very strong offer to take majority ownership of this new business and he would fund it.

 

Now this had me thinking a few nights ago, since I would be a co owner and there is some need in protection. The normal business hours are till at least 10 pm every night but Sundays, in summer may even be open later. My staff is going to be mostly younger adults from what I am learning and the closing staff would be hopefully a competent manager and a few kids. From a robbers point of view I would think it might seem like a easy hit.

 

I know you have the right to defend your property and land, and this does extend to business's however the land the store would be on isn't owned by me it is leased so is it something I would have to bring up with the landlord? Is there anything else I need to think of and or consider? Thanks in advance.

[tj462nj 32]

Ant, you only need to own the business, not the property, you are legal to carry.

[aguilar64 9]

You might want to ask RTSP, it seems that every guy that works there is carrying and I'm pretty sure not everyone there owns the business.

[Scott204 1]

Just an FYI in NJ YOU MAY NOT USE DEADLY FORCE to protect property.

[Malsua 1,422]

You might want to ask RTSP, it seems that every guy that works there is carrying and I'm pretty sure not everyone there owns the business.

 

Unless they are current or former Law enforcement or owners, they are breaking the law.

 

 

Edit to add: RTSP has a range exemption that doesn't exist in the question framed in the first post. I've amended this in a post below.

Edited April 3, 2012 by Malsua

[this_is_nascar 162]

Unless they are current or former Law enforcement or owners, they are breaking the law.

 

 

Please post the law that says that. Every guy that works at Hague's that I've even seen is carrying in the premises and I know they ALL don't own the place. I find it hard to beleive the owners would risk their business by allowing this if it was illegal.

[SpecialK 193]

Unless they are current or former Law enforcement or owners, they are breaking the law.

 

So you can only draw from a holster at a range if you are current or former LEO? The whole place is a range, therfore anyone can carry a gun on their hip if they want while inside the building (with permission of the staff of course). That's the way I look at it and I tend to use logic though which isn't so popular in NJ I find.

[Malsua 1,422]

So you can only draw from a holster at a range if you are current or former LEO? The whole place is a range, therfore anyone can carry a gun on their hip if they want while inside the building (with permission of the staff of course). That's the way I look at it and I tend to use logic though which isn't so popular in NJ I find.

 

Right. The range exemption. I was forgetting that it was at a range. I was connecting the previous question about "generic business" and "Those guys are carrying guns and they're not owners, how are they doing it".

[Dewhitewolf 8]

As far as RTSP goes, it is my understanding that the four guys who own the place are co-owners. That alone allows them to carry in their place of business. Aside from that, I believe two (perhaps three) of them are active LEO's.

 

You do not need to own the land the business is on; you only need to own the business. Your right to carry at your business is limited to the business premises--it is not a right to carry to or from your business, or to carry while in a company vehicle.

 

Evan Nappen had a case where ownership of a business was at issue--the client claimed the business was his because he managed it and ran everything having to do with it. However, the business was actually owned by someone else, to whom he paid a monthly check. The client in that case lost, because he was not the actual owner of the business. So my advice is to make sure that your ownership (or even partial ownership) is unmistakable. Of course, it's a good idea to talk to an attorney about liability as well.

[AnthonyG 36]

Yeah my co ownership would be in ink for sure so that would not be a issue, my concern was although I will own the business but not the physical land would that hurt my right to arm myself.

Our current policy in my family business that we tell our employees is give someone whatever they want its not worth losing your life. I would continue that policy into the new business however, if a gun was waved in front of my face. I consider that a threat to my life and I would act upon that and only act in that situation.

[halbautomatisch 60]

Yeah my co ownership would be in ink for sure so that would not be a issue, my concern was although I will own the business but not the physical land would that hurt my right to arm myself. Our current policy in my family business that we tell our employees is give someone whatever they want its not worth losing your life. I would continue that policy into the new business however, if a gun was waved in front of my face. I consider that a threat to my life and I would act upon that and only act in that situation.

 

Is the building stand alone on the property, or is it on the property with other business? (like a strip mall). If you are leasing the building with the property exclusively, you should be OK anywhere on the property. If the property is also leased to others, you would be OK only inside your leased portion of the building.

[Adam 6]

if a gun was waved in front of my face. I consider that a threat to my life and I would act upon that and only act in that situation.

 

I don't know you from Dick Cheney, so I could be wrong with this question but also consider...

 

Are you trained to do so?

[vladtepes 1,060]

if a gun was waved in front of my face. I consider that a threat to my life and I would act upon that and only act in that situation.

 

with all due respect.. as just asked..

you get a loaded shotgun with one in the chamber.. finger on the trigger cracked out thug who looks at your dead body as just more street cred..

what exactly do you plan to do.. what will you do with that holstered gun that will make the slightest bit of difference.. how do you plan to unholster.. aim.. fire.. with a loaded gun stuffed in your face... millimeters away from being another statistic on the news.. dont get me wrong.. I am all for self defense.. the ability to preserve ones life.. but if you have a loaded gun waved in your face... you better have a hell of a lot of training to even consider reacting to that.. keep in mind.. if you miss.. you are accountable for every round that wizzes past him out towards the public...

 

the point is not to knock your or question your ability.. but instead to serve as a reality check.. sometimes reality is not as fun.. but it needs to be considered.. especially when considering shooting another individual in a crisis situation..

[AnthonyG 36]

with all due respect.. as just asked..

you get a loaded shotgun with one in the chamber.. finger on the trigger cracked out thug who looks at your dead body as just more street cred..

what exactly do you plan to do.. what will you do with that holstered gun that will make the slightest bit of difference.. how do you plan to unholster.. aim.. fire.. with a loaded gun stuffed in your face... millimeters away from being another statistic on the news.. dont get me wrong.. I am all for self defense.. the ability to preserve ones life.. but if you have a loaded gun waved in your face... you better have a hell of a lot of training to even consider reacting to that.. keep in mind.. if you miss.. you are accountable for every round that wizzes past him out towards the public...

 

the point is not to knock your or question your ability.. but instead to serve as a reality check.. sometimes reality is not as fun.. but it needs to be considered.. especially when considering shooting another individual in a crisis situation..

 

I agree with what your saying and I think I misrepresented myself, the way I said it made me come off as, oh he has a gun so I am gonna shoot him, I didnt mean it that way. I was saying basically the only time I would consider unholstering is if the threat was armed as well.

As far as my firearm skills I make efforts to practice defensive measures when I can, I am by no means a trained pro but I am a strong believer in muscle memory and consistency,I make a strong effort to follow the rules of safety every time I use my firearms.

 

In a robbery situation I would avoid escalating it at all costs and as I mentioned before, give them anything they wanted.I would rather keep my gun holstered and keep up the odds for a safe out come if there was a chance of me killing someone innocent in the background.

[vladtepes 1,060]

I agree with what your saying and I think I misrepresented myself, the way I said it made me come off as, oh he has a gun so I am gonna shoot him, I didnt mean it that way. I was saying basically the only time I would consider unholstering is if the threat was armed as well.

As far as my firearm skills I make efforts to practice defensive measures when I can, I am by no means a trained pro but I am a strong believer in muscle memory and consistency,I make a strong effort to follow the rules of safety every time I use my firearms.

 

In a robbery situation I would avoid escalating it at all costs and as I mentioned before, give them anything they wanted.I would rather keep my gun holstered and keep up the odds for a safe out come if there was a chance of me killing someone innocent in the background.

 

I totally understand and agree.. was not picking on you in any way... I am no different than you.. just a regular person who is a gun enthusiasts.. I carry my gun every day... and sometimes I am left wondering when would I and when would I not use it... deploying the weapon in the face of a weapon is a sticky situation... but doing nothing may get you killed as well...

[BarkNBite 15]

FYI............had an incident many years ago where I was confronted in the dark of the morning by a man wanting my money..without going into details, about 5'-0 separated us. Lucky for me I had my hand on my Model 36 in my coat pocket and not in a holster......he saw in my eyes his time was up and decided to leave without incident. If that gun was holstered, things might have turned out different.