You guys believe these stats??

[Norseman 2]

Or is there evidence to refute it?

 

To quote Leonard Skynard, "Handguns are made for killing, aint good for nothing else." While cars and pools and hammers have other primary uses. The stats (rounded up in 1999 and down in 2012 are from the FBI. One right wing site (http://usconservatives.about.com/od/capitalpunishment/a/Putting-Gun-Death-Statistics-In-Perspective.htm uses 32,000 gun related deaths per year, and says 60% are suicides, but then goes on to show almost all other gun homicides are gang related. I find its lack of citations dubious. The CDC says that gun homicides account for 3.6 deaths per 100K, while all homicides are 5.3 deaths per 100K. I have not plumbed their data to verify, but the CDC, isn't exactly the Huffington Post. Peace have a good week

 

 

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[Howard 538]

I guess he never heard of things like IDPA, USPSA or other competitive shooting events where handguns are used for sport.  I assume he is saying the millions of police officers use their side arms routinely for killing - I would argue they are there more for the intimidation factor (as are the dark glasses).  I guess he never heard that it is people with guns that keep the government from taking away his first amendment rights to say stupid things like that either.

[Shane45 807]

I need to find a study done by a professor at Harvard I believe. Readers digest his findings where there are about 30k gun deaths a year and suicide accounted for 2/3rds. He said it was very surprising to him as he expected actual homicides to account for more than it did but the data didn't support it.

[Steve_G 51]

Who is Leonard Skynard?

[Shane45 807]

Not the one I was looking for but interesting just the same!

 

http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf

[illy 1]

Or is there evidence to refute it?

 

To quote Leonard Skynard, "Handguns are made for killing, aint good for nothing else." While cars and pools and hammers have other primary uses. The stats (rounded up in 1999 and down in 2012 are from the FBI. One right wing site (http://usconservatives.about.com/od/capitalpunishment/a/Putting-Gun-Death-Statistics-In-Perspective.htm uses 32,000 gun related deaths per year, and says 60% are suicides, but then goes on to show almost all other gun homicides are gang related. I find its lack of citations dubious. The CDC says that gun homicides account for 3.6 deaths per 100K, while all homicides are 5.3 deaths per 100K. I have not plumbed their data to verify, but the CDC, isn't exactly the Huffington Post. Peace have a good week

 

 

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http://extranosalley.com/?p=27241

 

Someone came by searching for “what percentage of american murders are gang related.”

Since all murders are not solved, and an actual motive is only a matter of conjecture for many more, an exact answer is not possible.

Doing some data mining with 2010 numbers, and extrapolating from the number of murders solved by arrest to all known murders, it appears that approximately 78 percent, slightly more than three out of every four murders, are gang related.

For 2010, the FBI reported 14,478 murders and non-negligent homicides. Of those, approximately 11,290 were in some way gang related.

And, for those of a thoughtful turn of mind, those numbers mean that were it not for gang activity, the United States homicide rate would be in the 1 per 100,000 range.

[jm1827 284]

Who is Leonard Skynard?

A high school gym teacher...

[Norseman 2]

A high school gym teacher...

Lmao

 

I did correct him on that one.

 

I also said I don't believe 19,200 people commit suicide with a gun each year. At that rate in about 10-15 years they wouldn't have to worry about taking our guns away because all gun owners would be dead.

 

 

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[Shane45 807]

You don't have to be a gun owner to use a gun to commit suicide.....

[raz-0 1,259]

Or is there evidence to refute it?

 

To quote Leonard Skynard, "Handguns are made for killing, aint good for nothing else." While cars and pools and hammers have other primary uses. The stats (rounded up in 1999 and down in 2012 are from the FBI. One right wing site (http://usconservatives.about.com/od/capitalpunishment/a/Putting-Gun-Death-Statistics-In-Perspective.htm uses 32,000 gun related deaths per year, and says 60% are suicides, but then goes on to show almost all other gun homicides are gang related. I find its lack of citations dubious. The CDC says that gun homicides account for 3.6 deaths per 100K, while all homicides are 5.3 deaths per 100K. I have not plumbed their data to verify, but the CDC, isn't exactly the Huffington Post. Peace have a good week

 

 

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His stats are form the CDC. The problem is that the gang related numbers are an extrapolation from a study done that collected data from 12 large cities. I think anything that tries to put out a meaningful number that applies across the board is not engaging in sound math. At the same time, the results of that study are statistically meaningful that they should not be ignored. The important take away is that once you pass the level of simple assault, violent crime is heavily co-exhibited with other criminal acts, and that gang affiliation correlates significantly more strongly than simply looking at the criminal record of the perpetrator. IIRC depending on city, the range for correlation of homicide with gang affiliation spanned 60%-79%. Having a criminal history was something like 6 times more correlated than having no criminal history, and criminal history with gang affiliation was 3 times that of just having a criminal history. 

 

The 60% of firearms deaths are suicides thing is generally accepted though. IIRC it has spanned like 52%-64% with the majority of years being between 58-60%. 

[raz-0 1,259]

Lmao

 

I did correct him on that one.

 

I also said I don't believe 19,200 people commit suicide with a gun each year. At that rate in about 10-15 years they wouldn't have to worry about taking our guns away because all gun owners would be dead.

 

 

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Your intuitive math skills are bad. 

 

Taking the gun grabbers numbers (i.e. not favorable to RKBA), about 20% of the populace owns a gun. That's over 6.2 million owners. at 19,200 per year that's 3269.8 years to go through them all.  There's also jsut short of 4 million annual births (and the rate is falling), but if 20% of them turn out to be eventual gun owners, you are minting about 790k new ones a year, so 3.2 millenia won't quite be enough to get through the problem. Even at 2% you are about 4 times replacement. 

[raz-0 1,259]

His stats are form the CDC. The problem is that the gang related numbers are an extrapolation from a study done that collected data from 12 large cities. I think anything that tries to put out a meaningful number that applies across the board is not engaging in sound math. At the same time, the results of that study are statistically meaningful that they should not be ignored. The important take away is that once you pass the level of simple assault, violent crime is heavily co-exhibited with other criminal acts, and that gang affiliation correlates significantly more strongly than simply looking at the criminal record of the perpetrator. IIRC depending on city, the range for correlation of homicide with gang affiliation spanned 60%-79%. Having a criminal history was something like 6 times more correlated than having no criminal history, and criminal history with gang affiliation was 3 times that of just having a criminal history. 

 

The 60% of firearms deaths are suicides thing is generally accepted though. IIRC it has spanned like 52%-64% with the majority of years being between 58-60%. 

 

OK, my memory is bad. It was 5 cities, and criminal record did beat out gang affiliation for totals and correlation.  and for some reason I can't find the CDC document, they appear to only ahve an executive summary easily findable anymore. 

 

But another way to go on it is this link https://www.nationalgangcenter.gov/Survey-Analysis/Measuring-the-Extent-of-Gang-Problems

 

They list for 2010 a total of 2,020 gang homicides. CDC for 2010 has firearms deaths as 606 from accidental discharge, 19392 from suicide, 11078 were homicide. THe homicide total for all cuases was 16,259, so about 12.4% of all homicides were gang related. Assuming that gangs have the same distribution as all other groups in how they commit homicides, that'd imply that about 1373 were gang related. This is a sketchy assumption. 

 

That leads to the question of do you trust those numbers. To answer that, lets look at chicago. the city itself claimed 80% of homicides are gang related. the national gang center claims ~50%. 

[Norseman 2]

Your intuitive math skills are bad.

 

Taking the gun grabbers numbers (i.e. not favorable to RKBA), about 20% of the populace owns a gun. That's over 6.2 million owners. at 19,200 per year that's 3269.8 years to go through them all. There's also jsut short of 4 million annual births (and the rate is falling), but if 20% of them turn out to be eventual gun owners, you are minting about 790k new ones a year, so 3.2 millenia won't quite be enough to get through the problem. Even at 2% you are about 4 times replacement.

Yeah I was trying to be sarcastic. However I would think if those numbers were accurate though you'd hear a lot more about gun suicides ...don't you think?

 

 

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[raz-0 1,259]

Yeah I was trying to be sarcastic. However I would think if those numbers were accurate though you'd hear a lot more about gun suicides ...don't you think?

 

 

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No, how often do you hear about hospital slip ups and other such things.

 

Once you are out of high school, there really isn't much cultural imperative to gossip about such things regarding people you don't know.

[Shane45 807]

I think they are accurate numbers. I have looked at several studies independent from each other that all came to about the same conclusion.

[Shane45 807]

This site says there are about 30,000 suicides a year and over half are with firearms. So it seems to be in the ballpark. I think you underestimate just how large the US population is...

 

http://www.save.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.viewpage&page_id=705d5df4-055b-f1ec-3f66462866fcb4e6

[raz-0 1,259]

This site says there are about 30,000 suicides a year and over half are with firearms. So it seems to be in the ballpark. I think you underestimate just how large the US population is...

 

http://www.save.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.viewpage&page_id=705d5df4-055b-f1ec-3f66462866fcb4e6

 

Yeah people suck at estimating the scale of things. All those guess how many whatevers are in the jar contest are a good example. WHenever I happen to run across one of those shows about how some common processed food is made always reminds me how many people the US has. When they dump a package of tomato paste that's abotu 25% of the size of my house, and that'll keep the aseembly line buzzing for the next 2 hours, and its' a product I eat maybe twice a year.... kind of puts it in perspective. 

[Krispeed 0]

 

jm1827 ...Just noticed the info on the bottom of your post.       what are they saying ???