Midwest

I agree with the gun laws before 1934...

Looks like the site is back up, again..

I though they were up last week, they did have a couple times when the site was running good one minute and later nothing on the site would open up. I thought it was another server problem again...but maybe not. I was reading the "Hall of Shame" one of the last times I was there.

Under New Jersey's new law, possession of BB gun merits three-year sentence http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2046116/posts Under a new state law, Narciso's possession of the weapon qualifies as a Graves Act offense. Narciso could face what prosecutors and criminal defense attorneys call a "hard three," meaning three years with no prospect of parole.

The part that comes into question is if the authorities in NJ find that pistol. If you lived in another state and then moved here ( and can prove it) , and then you were later caught with it (and not used illegally)... your defense could be that you bought it before you moved here. If you always lived in NJ, and since pistols are registered (including pistol BB guns and black powder pistols), and then you were caught with it...what would your defense be? Where and who did you get the bb pistol from? You in theory could not have a defense, unless you can prove you got it before the law went in effect in NJ...in 1966. If you got a blackpowder gun rifle or BB gun rifle and got caught with it. You could show them your FID and that might cover it, since rifles are not registered in NJ. Pistols bought in NJ (after 1966) have a paper trail...and it the prosecutor wants to pursue it...they could find where and when that pistol was bought at. If there is no record of the pistol, then the only way you could have it in NJ is if you bought it in another state before you moved here. If it is an older pistol, you might be able to use the defense that it has been in the family since the mid 1960's. Keep in mind the above scenarios are just if you were stopped and it was found in the trunk and secured in a box and they wanted to pursue it further for some reason. If caught using the above illegally, they could use the Graves amendment and throw three years at you in Rahway (according to the many 'NJ lawyer blog' advertisements that I see on the net).

Kentucky accepts New Jersey's carry permit...even though NJ doesn't accept Kentucky's. http://www.nraila.org/recmap/recguide.pdf

Before the 1966 FID Gun Law Does anyone have stories or information on buying a firearm before the NJ Firearms I D card requirement law went in effect in NJ circa 1966? 1. Were BB Guns and Blackpowder firearms available in department stores or just gun stores? Was there any buying restrictions on them? 2. Was there a permit process to buy a pistol before the 1966 law? Is is the same as it is now, where you have to apply for it? When did that law go in effect? 3. Were long guns and rifles available in department stores and elsewhere or just in gun stores? Any restrictions? 4. Was mail order of guns permitted? I read on another forum stories about how it was before the 1968 GCA where people were able to buy at department stores, hardware stores even gas stations as well as mail order. I researched information on the net and found scant information about firearms and stories about them in New Jersey before the FID card requirement came into being circa 1966 (some two years before 1968 GCA). I did track down 1924 as the year a carry permit was required in NJ. Thanks in advance

There was talk about KY dropping the permit requirement altogether like Vermont,Alaska, Arizona and Wyoming. But if they got rid of the permit altogether, then it would hurt residents who wanted to carry in other states. I think they were going to keep the permit (optional) for that purpose. Looking around the net I saw mention of other states including Maine, South Carolina and New Hampshire considering dropping the conceal carry permit requirement as well. And since Wyoming, I have not heard of any other state ready to vote on any actual bill. I do not think that Kentucky bill went anywhere, I have not heard anything more about it since the early part of 2011. I have no idea how far it went. However it did make news on pro gun sites at the time. The odd thing about it though, there was the Bill HB 113 Conceal Carry without a permit.http://lrc.ky.gov/RECORD/11RS/HB113.htm And there was yet another bill at the time,( http://lrc.ky.gov/RECORD/11RS/HB313.htm) HB 313 which expanded the areas in a car one could carry without it being deemed concealed. The glove box exemption was expanded to include the center console and any compartment in the vehicle in HB 313. And I believe both bills were being voted on around the same time. Some wondered why two important bills related to concealed carry, being voted around the same time, also had numbers that were pretty close to one another 113 and 313. One would steal thunder from another? By design? http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2671821/posts ----------------------------------------------------------------------- "Concealed Carry In Kentucky Without A License LEGISLATIVE ACTION ALERT SUPPORT HB 113 - http://www.lrc.ky.gov/record/11RS/HB113.htm Rep. Mike Harmon from Danville, the sponsor of this new concealed carry bill...." "..... This is a good bill, and would add Kentucky to Vermont, Alaska, and Arizona as states that do not require a state issued license to practice the fundamental and unalienable right to keep and bear arms, regardless of whether a weapon is openly carried or concealed."

Kentucky has a mandatory course that must be passed before getting the Carry Permit. Here is how the two part process is done in my state. And no I have not gone for my Concealed Carry permit yet. http://www.kc3.com/kyccw/license_process.htm Basically, you watch some videos, handgun safety, rules and regulations, take a written test, live fire qualification test at a range, demonstrate safety practices and how to clean your gun. If you pass you get a certificate in the mail. Cost about $80 Step two http://kentuckystatepolice.org/conceal.htm "An applicant for a CCDW license must complete an application form at the sheriff's office in his or her county of residence. The applicant must also pay the $60 application fee at the time of application (active and retired peace officers that meet the requirements of KRS 237.110(7) are exempt from paying the application or renewal fee). The sixty-dollar fee is to be allocated as follows: * Payment of twenty dollars to the sheriff of your county of residence. * A check or money order for forty dollars (the portion of the CCDW fee allocated to the KSP and the Administrative Office of the Courts by statute) payable to the Department of State Police. The KSP will collect the portion of the fee designated for the Administrative Office of the Courts on its behalf. Applications that are not accompanied by a check or money order for forty dollars ($40.00) payable to the Department of State Police will be returned unprocessed to the sheriff of the applicant's county of residence. The application will be sent to the Kentucky State Police within five working days. The application form, completed under oath, must include the following: * Name, Address, Date of Birth, Gender and Social Security Number. * Recent color photograph: full head shot no smaller than 3 ½ x 4 nor larger than 4x5 inches. * A photocopy of a certificate or an affidavit or document certifying completion of a firearms training course offered or approved by the Department of Criminal Justice Training." They will then mail you a notice that your permit is ready and you bring the notice with you to the Sheriff's Office and get your permit. I think it takes 30 to 60 days....

Looks like 18 to purchase in NJ according to this...I thought it was 21 . As far as the handgun belonging to someone else, it has to be under direct supervision of a parent or guardian or with a FID. However this seems contradictory as the OP is 20 and the law says 18. http://www.njsp.org/info/pdf/firearms/njac-title13-ch54.pdf 13:54-1.5 Prerequisites for a permit to purchase handgun or a firearms purchaser identification card (a) Every person issued a permit to purchase a handgun, or a firearms purchaser identification card, shall be 18 years of age and of good repute in the community in which he lives. http://www.nraila.org/issues/factsheets/read.aspx?id=43 New Jersey - No person under 18 shall possess, carry, fire, or use a firearm except under the following circumstances: 1. In the actual presence or under the direct supervision of a parent or guardian, or some other person who holds a Permit to Carry or Firearm Identification Card (FID); or 2. For the purpose of military drill under the auspices of a legally recognized military organization and under competent supervision; or 3. For the purpose of competition or target practice on a firing range approved by the governing body of the municipality in which the range is located or the National Rifle Association and which is under competent supervision at the time of such supervision or target practice; or 4. For the purpose of hunting during the regularly designated hunting season, provided he possesses a valid hunting license and has successfully completed a hunter`s safety course.

"Fresno attorney Mark Coleman said he plans to challenge the California law that prohibits residents from possessing assault rifles because the law is arbitrary." Read more: http://www.fresnobee.com/2011/11/03/2601951/kingsburg-man-charged-with-possessing.html#ixzz1clCr0HTh While I could possibly see him challenging California law on the AWB. I don't think he will be able to challenge the Hughes Amendment and GCA 38 among others. If others have tried to challenge those laws, and they are still in effect today. What makes him think that he can? Hey I believe that the second amendment must not be infringed like everyone else does, the courts have ruled differently. As for a precedent coming out of this that will affect everyone's gun rights...if this goes to the Supreme Court...the decked is now stacked against us. It could affect us. If it goes just to the California Supreme Courts and the main focus is on California's AWB. Then I cannot see how a that one aspect would affect us. There are many things at work here....

Thanks for the clarification, please delete my 'NJ Carry permit found on Google' post. Just on a side note I was looking around to what the 'pistol purchase' permit looks like. I could not find it anywhere, though I did find a few photos of what a NJ FID looks like. Thanks for posting the correct Carry Permit photos.

I found a NJ Carry Permit on the net in a Google search.

I found a reference to a curio and relics license from a NJ State Police site. http://www.njsp.org/info/pdf/firearms/njac-title13-ch54.pdf Page 17 at 99.9% 13:54-3.14 Permanent record of receipt and disposition of firearms and ammunition (d) Body armor penetrating bullets shall only be sold to a Federally licensed collector of firearms and ammunition who possesses a valid Collector of Curios and Relics License as defined in Title 18 U.S.C. sec. 921(a)(13) or to the Armed Forces of the United States or the National Guard, law enforcement agencies and licensed firearms dealers."

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Maybe carry permits for Armed Guards who work in NJ, but live out of state?

You have my permission, go right ahead!

Here is my reply in the comment section there. "Some clarifications might be in order. There are laws on the books in all 50 states (including Florida) that ban violent offenders, convicts and felons from obtaining guns. Furthermore, ALL States require a State, Federal background check, fingerprints and photographs, in addition to a mandatory safety and shooting course for a CCW permit. The National Right to Carry Reciprocity is not 'about' the NRA or any organization. It is about the right for law abiding citizens to defend themselves and their family legally regardless in what State they are in. HR 822 is law for the people and the right to protect themselves. This seems something that New Jersey seems to have a hard time dealing with. Trusting its own people.....unlike over 40 states that do trust its law abiding citizens."

Regarding Mississippi's two tiered system and how it works. from http://www.handgunlaw.us/notices.htm 5th paragraph down "Mississippi DPS has announced that they have certified Enhanced Instructors who can train permit/license holders for an endorsement to their permit/license that allows them to carry in many of the places off limits in Mississippi law. I have still not obtained information on how this will affect those who can carry in Mississippi with a permit/license Mississippi honors. They can’t get an endorsement so all places in MS Law will most likely be off limits to those carrying in Mississippi under a reciprocity agreement."

Welcome to the forum.

Agree, I also could see NJ develop a CCW that would be more restrictive than the carry permit they have now. In fact I could envision a two tier carry permit. Currently as I understand it, the carry permit they have now is basically available to retired LEO's and armed guards and 'connected/high profile people'. I don't think that will change. Armed guards on the job would still need to access areas like banks and maybe government buildings. Or wherever their job requires them to be armed...on the job. So in theory the state would develop a 'neutered' CCW that would have so many clauses and high qualifications that would 'satisfy' 822 but keep the people from having the same CCW rights as say here in KY or elsewhere. The State of NJ could argue that ordinary citizens should not carry in the same areas as armed guards do. That would open the door to a 'two tiered' carry permit. I'm sure that State would add more conditions onto the 'citizen carry permit'. Although I sure don't want to give them any ideas. Before anyone dismisses a two tiered carry permit. Mississippi now has a two tiered CCW scheme. Now I am NOT advocating a two tiered permit system. I am merely making an observation that a two tiered system 'might' be NJ's 'response' to HR 822. I believe the citizens of their own State should be able to carry pretty much wherever they are. The law abiding citizens of the state should have the same rights as armed guards, retired leos, connected/high profile people do. NY State has a two tiered pistol permit, people in upstate NY can get carry permits in some counties. But the carry permit is not valid in New York City. Some would add that the NY State Pistol Permit is multi-tiered. Full Carry NY State, Full Carry NYC and NY State, Premise Permit, Target Permit. (By the way, if HR 822passes I would not surprise me if Illinois would follow the NY State model with the Illinois carry permit 'not valid in Chicago'...although Chicago is really where a CCW would be most needed)

Yes correct, I should have reworded that we have White Castle in addition to the NY/NJ Metro area. Also we have no real pizzeria's here, just the chain stores like Domino's, Snappy and Big John's. I prefer NY style Pizza that is made there. There are no places that feature NY/NJ Pizza here. Though there is a place in Orlando FL area I was told. Snappy Pizza here offers Chicago Pizza style though, it is thick like a cake...yuk. We do not have diners here either. They might have one or two in Cincinnati. I like the Hot Grill in Clifton NJ, nothing like that here unfortunately. Though we do have Skyline and GoldStar Chili and "Cheese Coneys".

My friends were mentioning proposals to combine city and county services to lower taxes. I have not heard anything since, it sounded like a good idea. I mentioned I have been looking at the firearms laws including laws before the 1968 GCA. Tennessee used to have a 15 day waiting period to buy a pistol. California had a requirement to go to the Sheriff to get a permit to buy a handgun and had a 3 day waiting period supposedly before the 1968 GCA. I found something interesting on another site that said in 1947, NJ had a Constitutional Convention where the Second Amendment was left out of the new constitution by mistake. "I find it embarrassing to explain that, for practical purposes, the Second Amendment does not really apply to New Jersey. Delegates to the 1947 New Jersey Constitutional Convention believed that the right of the people to keep and bear arms was so obvious and universally accepted that they did not include it the wording in our state Constitution - a presumptive error of epic proportions." http://conservativenewjersey.com/handguns-banned-in-new-jersey My question, is this true? Did the omission help make the 1966 NJ FID law easier to pass? Has there been a proposal to put the Second Amendment back in the constitution of NJ? Would it make it a difference if the constitution was changed to reflect the second amendment? And could it change the current "FID/PP" requirements and 'May Issue' in anyway? Since I don't live in NJ, I readily admit I don't know all the facts. Thanks again for welcoming me to the forum.

Welcome to the forum.

Welcome to the forum.