"Assault Weapon" Clarification, Please

[Chip 0]

The main link in the NJ Firearms Laws sticky is dead and the NRA summary is a bit vague. I'm wondering if anybody has a link to a definitive list of "assault" features, and how many of them you are allowed to have on a rifle before it becomes too scary-looking for legal possession in NJ. I know mag capacity is a maximum of 15 and barrel length is a minimum of 16" no matter what. I'm not sure what the other features are that are either outright illegal or illegal in certain combinations. Thank you for your help.

[GRIZ 3,369]

Go to NJSP.org, public information, click on firearms, go to laws.

[PK90 3,573]

ATF temporarily took down their link to New Jersey Title 2C, so you will have to deal with the NJ Legislature Website for 2C.

 

For Chapter 39, click the bottom SEARCH button, then browse.

 

For Chapter 58, click the bottom SEARCH button, then browse.

 

For the Admin Code, open folders on left, then browse for Title 13, Chapter 54, then browse.

[Chip 0]

Thanks. Using your instructions, I found the PDF here. This appears to be the definition of an "assault rifle":

 

i. A semi-automatic rifle that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least

two of the following:

(1) A folding or telescoping stock;

(2) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;

(3) A bayonet mount;

(4) A flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash

suppressor; and

(5) A grenade launcher;

 

Also, anything on the naughty list is automatically banned, as is anything "substantially identical" to any of these rifles:

 

Algimec AGM1 type

Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder such as the "Street Sweeper" or "Striker 12"

Armalite AR-180 type

Australian Automatic Arms SAR

Avtomat Kalashnikov type semi-automatic firearms

Beretta AR-70 and BM59 semi-automatic firearms

Bushmaster Assault Rifle

Calico M-900 Assault carbine and M-900

CETME G3Chartered Industries of Singapore SR-88 type

Colt AR-15 and CAR-15 series

Daewoo K-1, K-2, Max 1 and Max 2, AR 100 types

Demro TAC-1 carbine type

Encom MP-9 and MP-45 carbine types

FAMAS MAS223 types

FN-FAL, FN-LAR, or FN-FNC type semi-automatic firearms

Franchi SPAS 12 and LAW 12 shotguns

G3SA type

Galil type

Heckler and Koch HK91, HK93, HK94, MP5, PSG-1

Intratec TEC 9 and 22 semi-automatic firearms

M1 carbine type

M14S type

MAC 10, MAC 11, MAC 11-9 mm carbine type firearms

PJK M-68 carbine type

Plainfield Machine Company Carbine

Ruger K-Mini-14/5 F and Mini-14/5 RF

SIG AMT, SIG 550SP, SIG 551SP, SIG PE-57 types

SKS with detachable magazine type

Spectre Auto carbine type

Springfield Armory BM59 and SAR-48 type

Sterling MK-6, MK-7 and SAR types

Steyr A.U.G. semi-automatic firearms

USAS 12 semi-automatic type shotgun

Uzi type semi-automatic firearms

Valmet M62, M71S, M76, or M78 type semi-automatic firearms

Weaver Arm Nighthawk

[theduke 2]

one thing that people are comenly mistaken about the nj asault weapons ban is about pistol grips and thumbhole stocks in nj on semi auto shotguns. I was informed by many peopl including the owner of a very prominent nj firearms retailer that both are illegal. I brought this up to my local NRA recruiter/recruiter and after some digging around he put me in touch with the NJ firearms investigation unit who were able to clarify the above restrictions for me. According to them thumbhole stocks on semi auto shotguns are 100% legal and I have this in writing from the the fire arms investigation unit If you have a specific question give them a call I was suprrised when calling they put me in touch with an officer they described as a firearms phanatic and he was more than happy to go over my specific question .

[halbautomatisch 60]

i. A semi-automatic rifle that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least

two of the following:

(1) A folding or telescoping stock;

(2) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;

(3) A bayonet mount;

(4) A flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash

suppressor; and

(5) A grenade launcher;

 

 

There has been some debate on this forum as to whether or not this applies to all semi auto rifles or only clones of the ones named on the list, since this is not written into the law (2C), but rather it's in the administrative code (title 13). It would probably be safest to use this as a standard on any rifle until (if ever)a judge makes a determination.

[PK90 3,573]

one thing that people are comenly mistaken about the nj asault weapons ban is about pistol grips and thumbhole stocks in nj on semi auto shotguns. I was informed by many peopl including the owner of a very prominent nj firearms retailer that both are illegal. I brought this up to my local NRA recruiter/recruiter and after some digging around he put me in touch with the NJ firearms investigation unit who were able to clarify the above restrictions for me. According to them thumbhole stocks on semi auto shotguns are 100% legal and I have this in writing from the the fire arms investigation unit If you have a specific question give them a call I was suprrised when calling they put me in touch with an officer they described as a firearms phanatic and he was more than happy to go over my specific question .

 

Please post a copy of this letter.

Also, I have to ask rhetorically, what is considered a thumbhole stock? At what point or degree of grip tilt does a standard stock become a thumbhole stock then become a pistol grip stock?

[vladtepes 1,060]

Please post a copy of this letter.

Also, I have to ask rhetorically, what is considered a thumbhole stock? At what point or degree of grip tilt does a standard stock become a thumbhole stock then become a pistol grip stock?

 

 

when the pistol grip is conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.... :oh:

[Chip 0]

There has been some debate on this forum as to whether or not this applies to all semi auto rifles or only clones of the ones named on the list, since this is not written into the law (2C), but rather it's in the administrative code (title 13). It would probably be safest to use this as a standard on any rifle until (if ever)a judge makes a determination.

The preceding sentence in the PDF I linked says:

A semi-automatic firearm should be considered to be "substantially identical," that is, identical in all material respects, to a named assault weapon if it meets the below listed criteria:

Since any rifle that meets the criteria (detachable mag and two features) is "substantially identical" to an assault rifle, it is legally considered an assault rifle, regardless of make or model. At least that's how it seems to read.

 

 

Also, I have to ask rhetorically, what is considered a thumbhole stock? At what point or degree of grip tilt does a standard stock become a thumbhole stock then become a pistol grip stock?

when the pistol grip is conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.... :oh:

It's a legitimate question. Is this a thumbhole stock? How about this or this? Is there a point at which it stops being a thumbhole and starts being a pistol grip that just happens to connect to the stock at the bottom? What about a stock shaped like this that only connects at the bottom of a pistol grip? I suppose I'm preaching to the choir here, but these rules are both silly and vague.

 

Related question: Are any AR-variants NJ legal? It seems that any version/clone would be considered "substantially identical" to an AR15, which is on the ban list.

[PK90 3,573]

FOUND THIS.

If web of hand formed by thumb and index finger is above line, it is legal. Below the line would be considered a pistol grip.

WHAT SAY YOU?

 

[PK90 3,573]

The Admin Code (NJAG Guideline) refers to firearms that are on "the list", ONLY.

If it is on "the list", then you must play the evil features game with clones.

HOWEVER, the NJSP Firearms Unit says that ALL firearms must comply with the feature restrictions.

I have also been told on several occasions by the NJSP that thumbhole stocks are LEGAL, but therein lies the problem.

WHAT is a thumbhole stock?

 

[Dan 177]

Another example that many NJ gun laws need to be treated like quantum superposition. IMO, choosing to incorporate a thumbhole stock to scratch off the "pistol grip" off the evil list can put you in the state of being legal and illegal at the same time, with the outcome of the final state being determined upon observation in the NJ court system. Particularly as to whether or not the prosecutor can convince the jury that the particular thumbhole stock that you are using "protrudes conspicuously" enough below the action of the gun. Without a clear definition of what is "conspicuous", it can go either way.

[PK90 3,573]

AND, it really doesn't matter what the law says. If someone were to be charged with "Unlawful Possession of Weapons" (2nd degree crime) because their thumbhole stock looks like it could be a pistol grip, 99.9% of defendants would accept a plea agreement because of the vagueness of the law and total BS a trial would put them and their families through. You will never see case law on this. It will be left a totally gray area until the next anti-gun law makes it more restrictive.

[MrP 81]

FOUND THIS.

If web of hand formed by thumb and index finger is above line, it is legal. Below the line would be considered a pistol grip.

WHAT SAY YOU?

 

 

Where is this documented? It's VERY interesting. I won't be buying an AR in the near future but it brings up quite a few questions. Namely, how do they define "grip" if someone grips higher than another, do they run less risk of being illegal? Also this is absurdly silly, even for NJ.

[PK90 3,573]

Well, since there is no definition in the law as to what is a thumbhole stock verses a pistol grip, then one must use some standard of reference.

[Dan 177]

I would take California's lead as one position as to what is not considered a "pistol grip" for an AR. Just look at the monsterman grip as an example. My link

 

It makes me furious that we have to play these silly games to avoid a felony charge followed up by 10 years in the slammer.

[Chip 0]

Speaking of "silly California games", does the "bullet button" mod that some use in CA also get around the NJ assault rifle definition by making the magazine non-removable?

[alowerlevel 77]

Speaking of "silly California games", does the "bullet button" mod that some use in CA also get around the NJ assault rifle definition by making the magazine non-removable?

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php?/topic/25387-detachable-mag-requirement-in-nj-law-repercussion-and-compliance/

[halbautomatisch 60]

A semi-automatic firearm should be considered to be "substantially identical," that is, identical in all material respects, to a named assault weapon if it meets the below listed criteria:

 

Again this is in Title 13 - the administrative code - not 2C or 2A which is actual law. To state it simply, that evil features game is a former AG's interpretation of the law, ultimately it is up to a judge or jury to decide what the law is, not the AG or the cops.