Round ball in a modern muzzle loader

[Larry1851 0]

Hi. Most of the modern muzzle loaders I see (CVA and TC Arms) have a barrel twist of 1:28, which "they" say is a fast barrel and is suitable for sabots and conicals. Does that mean that patched round balls can not or should not ever be fired out of one of the new ones? Will they still work, if not just for shooting paper. Just curious.

 

P.S.. The more I see people shooting muzzle loaders, the more interested I become. I had the chance to shoot an old flint lock recently and a newer inline muzzle loader and really, really enjoyed it. Great...now I have one more way for my money to part with me! lol.

 

Thanks.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

I'm shooting from the hip here - Smokin50 (Dave) ought to be along soon to straighten me out - but as I recall, patched round ball rifling is on the order of 1:42 - much, much slower. I would expect considerably poorer accuracy with a PRB out of a fast twist barrel due to the sprue introducing considerable yaw when spinning at those speeds. Just a guess, but that's my story and I'm stickin' to it. Dave?

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[Larry1851 0]

Thanks, Bob. So it won't destroy the rifle if you shoot a round ball out of it, though. As you note, there would be considerable loss of accuracy, cause it spins so fast. Makes sense.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

I'm shooting from the hip here - Smokin50 (Dave) ought to be along soon to straighten me out - but as I recall, patched round ball rifling is on the order of 1:42 - much, much slower. I would expect considerably poorer accuracy with a PRB out of a fast twist barrel due to the sprue introducing considerable yaw when spinning at those speeds. Just a guess, but that's my story and I'm stickin' to it. Dave?

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

 

^^^^^THIS^^^^^

 

Bob, you're almost spot-on! Everything you say is true, except that the twist rate is 1:48 from most half-stock Hawken style rifles, and even slower 1:60 , 1:66 out of the old patched round ball-only rifles. The '48 twist is considered a "tweener" and will usually do very good at both projectiles. The inline sabots like the '28 & '24 twist and so do long conicals.

 

See you later--Happy Easter!

 

Dave

[Smokin .50 1,907]

One more thing, post Easter Meal:

 

Patched round balls don't behave with a fast twist at "normal" velocities, so the only way to tame them is to use more powder than necessary. Some rifles can self-straighten the PRB's in a fast spin scenario under the ideal conditions given (no wind and a heavy charge for maximum speed). I watched a fellow shoot his inline with PRB's every month. He was able to find a "sweet spot" up near max powder levels that worked almost as good as a "tweener" barrel like I have. And just an FYI, even swagged Hornady factory balls don't like a fast twist barrel, and they don't have any sprues at all!

 

Dave

[DaddyNick 408]

I've shot prb out of faster twist guns. it wont ruin the gun. accuracy inside 40-50 yards is fine. once you go beyond that thats when things get squirrely.

[MosinRob 1]

Hi. Most of the modern muzzle loaders I see (CVA and TC Arms) have a barrel twist of 1:28, which "they" say is a fast barrel and is suitable for sabots and conicals. Does that mean that patched round balls can not or should not ever be fired out of one of the new ones? Will they still work, if not just for shooting paper. Just curious.

 

P.S.. The more I see people shooting muzzle loaders, the more interested I become. I had the chance to shoot an old flint lock recently and a newer inline muzzle loader and really, really enjoyed it. Great...now I have one more way for my money to part with me! lol.

 

Thanks.

If you really want to get into prb shooting then you should get yourself a old style percussion or flint muzzleloader. If you want to shoot a few rounds and learn about it, come on down to old bridge one sunday. I'll let you take a few shots out of my rifle's and muzzleloader pistols

[Sonnylee 20]

I'm fairly new to the sport and started with an inline rifle and was shooting PRB from it, I must say I was scoring pretty good.

The only thing was that I had to clean the barrel after 5-10 rounds because the patch and ball was getting tight to push down.

I was shooting a Thompson firehawk percussion 50 cal. 70 grains 2f.

Grouping was acceptional.

 

[BarkNBite 15]

A 1:42 Bbl.....used to be and still is a sabot or conical Bbl.......a 1:90 is a Round ball Bbl.......slow......all my custom flinters are 1:90.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

A 1:42 Bbl.....used to be and still is a sabot or conical Bbl.......a 1:90 is a Round ball Bbl.......slow......all my custom flinters are 1:90.

 

Just for giggles, who makes a '42 twist? I think you meant to say '48 twist, but no matter........

 

I've cut playing cards in half with the "tweener" at several club's events over several years, with both patched round balls as well as 370 grain .50 caliber T/C Maxi's. Earned my Distinguished Expert in Muzzleloading Rifle with the same $300 (now $400) gun. Not to be a PITA, but I wouldn't be too quick to tell someone to use sabots in a traditional sidelock......

 

Next Sunday we'll have 15-20 Shooters at Old Bridge's Black Powder League Match. Why don't you come as my guest and bring your '90 twist rifle. I'd love to see it!

 

Dave

[BarkNBite 15]

Just for giggles..............Sharps Percussion and some Southern Mtn. Bbls. 1:48 that comes on most production guns today can be used for both naturally but not the best for PRB accuracy. I'll pass on your invitation to your club shoot.....I've shot with the best in the country and the world at times over the years, only been doing this for over 26yrs. But I like a guy who claims to know it all......all the time. We'll just keep watchin'..........

[Smokin .50 1,907]

I never claimed that the '48 "tweener" twist was the best at ANYTHING, I merely stated what I was able to accomplish with my inaccurate, "unsnobified", off-the-shelf, cheapie rifle, and then stated it's not necessary to recommend sabots in off-the-shelf sidelocks to Newbies.

 

I never said I know it all. I only know what's worked for ME (and dozens of others I've had the pleasure of shooting with) and am more than happy to pass it along. I feel sorry for you. Keep watchin' and pontificating....for some can cut the mustard and some have only fond memories from long ago..........

[Larry1851 0]

Certainly a lot of food for thought here. Thanks.

[MosinRob 1]

Just for giggles..............Sharps Percussion and some Southern Mtn. Bbls. 1:48 that comes on most production guns today can be used for both naturally but not the best for PRB accuracy. I'll pass on your invitation to your club shoot.....I've shot with the best in the country and the world at times over the years, only been doing this for over 26yrs. But I like a guy who claims to know it all......all the time. We'll just keep watchin'..........

You may have claimed to have shot with the best but that doesn't mean you are. If I hang out with Dale Earnhardt Jr does that mean Im a professional driver too. Now Smokin .50 has a DX in pistol and rifle. Not too many can say that. I have seen how he can shoot. So if its between you and him on the pepsi challenge, your just pissing in the wind. Remember it's better to remain silent and be thought a fool, Then to speak up and remove all doubt.