do i change my hold for trap vs sporting clays?

[Barms 98]

Took trap lessons on a sporting gun.  Did quite well.

 

then bought my own field gun:  Beretta AL391.   did very not-so-well.

 

Just got back from 4 rounds of trap.   First two rounds I did okay  (13, 14).   One of the guys in the group who was very friendly asked me how I sight down the barrel.  I said "the way I was taught, to see the bead but not see any rib."   He asked to shoulder my gun.   He said "next time when you shoulder it make it so you have a little of the rib in your vision under the bead"  as he mimicked a slight "tilt up" on the barrel as he explained to me the mechanics of a trap gun and the rising birds.

 

Man oh man I was vaporizing clays my next two rounds.  18 and 19.   It was magical difference.   So here is my question about trap vs sporting and a field gun.  Was I just holding THAT gun the wrong way from day one (seeing no rib) and that was making me miss?  Or did my change having a little "tilt up" on the barrel only work because in trap the birds are RISING?

 

I'm very excited about my new hold position, but on the way home I was wondering does that hold position only work for rising birds, therefore if I go to shoot sporting should I go back to "no rib" view?  

 

when you are considering your reply please realize I am not asking about "where do I aim" in trap vs sporting.   Right now I just want to focus on my shouldering and how the barrel is positioned in my view.   For the life of me I couldn't tell you where i'm aiming on the bird I am just following a "gun follows the eyes tracking the bird" scenario and its working fine for me.   Some day I will get into the position of the clay itself, but right now I just want to focus on my gun and the right starting view.

 

[Parker 213]

In the privacy of your home, with your unloaded shotgun, mount your shotgun with your eyes closed. Do it repeatedly until it feels comfortable and natural. Now open your eyes and see how much of the rib you see. Is it just the bead, or worse; nothing? That will indicate to you whether the stock fits you, or how much you need to raise your face on the stock if need be. But, you don't want to be lifting your head off the stock to see a bit of rib, which helps to compensate for rising birds on a trap range. Trapshooters have their guns set so that they see the clay all the time, never blocking it out with the bead.

 

Field guns have different buttstock dimensions than sporting guns. Sporting guns will have a slightly higher comb and heel, more parallel to the bore, than a field gun. Trap guns may have an adjustable comb for height or even a Monte Carlo comb. Lifting your head off the stock of a field gun will eventually result in misses. Lifting your head off the stock causes you to stop your swing and not follow through. You are better off with a properly fitted stock so your cheek weld is consistent. So, if you need to raise you face you can get an adhesive pad that will raise your face on the stock, or a slip-on device like a Beartooth which has spacers of varying thicknesses to adjust accordingly.

 

Beretta's have higher DAC (drop at comb) & DAH (drop at heel) dimensions that some American shotguns. 

 

You should pattern your shotgun to see where its point of impact is relative to your point of aim.

1) take a 2' or 3' square sheet of white paper as a target and draw a small 3" aiming dot in the center
2) pace off 13 yards and post the target at eye level
3) using a full choke tube, shoot for the center of the aiming dot with an ordinary birdshot load
4) the majority of your pattern at this range should be 2"-3" wide.

You should see any deviation of the core of the pattern left or right at this range. If the majority of your pattern is 1" above the aiming dot, your gun is printing a 60%/40% pattern at about 40 yards; meaning slightly high, with 60% of the pattern above the point of aim. This is preferable for some trap guns and what some shooters prefer, but for a hunting gun used for game you should be dead-on, or 50%/50%. High/low deviation is sometimes easier for the shooter to compensate for in a shotgun than when confronted with a left/right deviation, which can be detrimental.

 

PS - Shoot a round of skeet with your AL391 and you'll notice you won't need to compensate with seeing a "bit-o-rib" to break targets.

 

[GCE61 0]

Parker gave some solid advice, and if you can pattern your 391 it will go a long way in understanding where the POI is and how you need to mount the gun for Trap.

 

"do i change my hold for trap vs sporting clays?"

Yes... you can.

Trap- Registered Trap is usually shot by pre-mounting the shotgun to your shoulder before calling pull. By doing this you can mount the gun in a way to see more rib, and this mount will allow you to hit rising targets while still "seeing" the target. If you looked straight down the rib, on a rising target you'd have to swing up & thru the target to hit it therefore blocking it from your sight. You've already recognized the differences in your original post and saw how the different sighting picture using more rib had you hitting better. If you look at guns designed for the game of "Trap" you'll see that they all have a high rib so the shooter is always to see the clay target while shooting it in a rising flight.

 

SportingClays- Shooting SC's is usually done by holding the shotgun at a "low ready" position, and then after calling for the bird you mount the gun to shoulder and make the shot. SC's is a different game than Trap. In SC's the targets are a random mix of directions. So I would say to mount the gun to shoulder an look straight down the barrel (no rib), and concentrate on shooting in front of the bird, leading the bird and shooting where it's "going to be" vs "where it is". If you look at guns designed for the game of SC's, they are designed more like a field gun to shoot point of aim = point of impact.

 

"gun follows the eyes tracking the bird" scenario and its working fine for me" - Excellent! Keep in mind that this method will work for you in Trap or SC's. Remember that in Trap you have the option to setup before calling the bird and your setup will be to see more rib, then just use the "eyes follow the bird" method to shoot. When shooting SC's, just mount the gun to shoulder naturally looking straight down the rib and use the same shooting style.

 

By the way, Lehigh Valley Sporting Clays is a great range & tons of fun. I know it may be a bit of a drive from Wayne but it's a blast!

Good luck!