Does anyone have experience with transporting through NY?

[Matt 0]

I am legally allowed to own in NJ and in CT (CCW in CT as well) but the problem is NY is the ONLY state in the country that does not allow any transportation of firearms through the state without a permit (which is in direct conflict with federal law). I had a law school friend look into court cases on this matter and it seems that in general the outcome has been in favor of the person transporting (upheld by federal law even though it is denied through state law) but I dont want to be another trial and error case for this discrepancy. I would like to bring my gun to CT but it sounds like a bad idea. any experience?

[V65Magnafan 0]

I'm an American currently residing in Canada. I can legally carry in about 34 states. NY and NJ are not included, of course. Theefore, I must travel through NJ and NY under the protection of 926A.

 

Research: Title 18 Part 1 Chapter 44 Section 926A Interstate transportation of firearms. It's available for download on the Internet. I would advise having a copy with you as you travel.

 

To be safe, I contacted the relevant NYS Police officer at the detachment through which I travel to get from Ontario to Pennsylvania. He assures me that the NYSP is not interested in stopping me and prosecuting me, provided that I take a reasonably direct route through the state--even if the border guards notify him that I am travelling with a firearm. 926A will give you the details re travel. And, anyway, why would a police officer stop my vehicle if I am not speeding or breaking any driving laws, and if all my vehicle lamps are functioning? And even if he does, why would he search my trunk? And even if he does, I'm covered by 926A, provided that I am following its directives.

[Malsua 1,422]

I am legally allowed to own in NJ and in CT (CCW in CT as well) but the problem is NY is the ONLY state in the country that does not allow any transportation of firearms through the state without a permit (which is in direct conflict with federal law). I had a law school friend look into court cases on this matter and it seems that in general the outcome has been in favor of the person transporting (upheld by federal law even though it is denied through state law) but I dont want to be another trial and error case for this discrepancy. I would like to bring my gun to CT but it sounds like a bad idea. any experience?

 

It is not legal for you to own a pistol in NY. You are however protected under the federal law on transport provided you are transporting a legal firearm from a place that it is legal for you to have to a place that is legal for you to have it. I would also adhere to the 10 round mag limit _just in case_.

 

My advice to you is to put them in the trunk and travel directly through the state, no outrageous speeding and do your fueling before you cross. If you are pulled over for speeding, don't volunteer any information just do your yes sir, no sir, it won't happen again routine and get out of there. Do not consent to any searches, make them get a warrant.

 

Do not be in possession of more than 5 firearms as that means you intend to traffic firearms under NY law.

 

If you have a secure place for your handgun in CT, leave one there and limit the amount of crossing you will be doing.

 

The best advice is to simply never take a pistol into NY for any reason but there is no way to get to CT without going through NY unless you do it on a boat or plane.

[Blackfox 1]

This is new to me, friend of mine owns land in Stanford NY, been there several times over the years for recreational shooting, transporting rifles, shotguns, pistols, revolvers, never had any problem and we were stopped for speeding. I guess we were lucky.

[Dewhitewolf 8]

Just transport your firearm(s) unloaded and in the trunk. Drive through the state--don't stop for sight seeing. You may stop only for fuel or emergencies (i.e., flat tire).

 

If you get pulled over, don't volunteer anything. IF they ask, don't consent to a search. IF they proceed with a search, say that the search is without your consent, then invoke your right to an attorney. At this point, they are not your friends, no matter what they tell you.

[rscalzo 3]

which is in direct conflict with federal law

 

Where did you get that idea? Read the law and follow it and you will not have a problem. Travelling through NY is covered. ending your trip in NY would cause the problem.

 

A non-resident citizen may possess a rifle or shotgun in New York, as long as it is unloaded while being transported. No person may carry, possess or transport a handgun in or through the state unless he has a valid New York license. New York does not issue licenses to non-residents nor does it recognize licenses issued by other states. (A provision of federal law provides a defense to state or local laws which would prohibit the passage of persons with firearms in interstate travel. If a person is traveling from any place where he may lawfully possess and transport a firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and transport such firearm and the firearm is unloaded and in the trunk. In vehicles without a trunk, the unloaded firearm shall be in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console. Necessary stops, e.g., gasoline and rest, seem permissible.) A member or coach of an accredited college or university target pistol team may transport a handgun into or through New York to participate in a collegiate, Olympic or target pistol shooting competition provided that the handgun is unloaded and carried in a locked carrying case and the ammunition is carried in a separate locked container. An alien may possess a rifle or shotgun for use while hunting provided he has a valid New York hunting license. "If such (handgun) license is issued to an alien, or to a person not a citizen of and usually a resident in the state, the licensing officer shall state in the license the particular reason for the issuance and the names of the persons certifying to the good character of the applicant." Non-resident target shooters may enter or pass through New York State with handguns for the purposes of any NRA approved competition if the competitor has in his possession a copy of the match program, proof of entry and a pistol license from his state of residence. The handgun must be unloaded and transported in a locked opaque container.

 

 

been there several times over the years for recreational shooting, transporting rifles, shotguns, pistols, revolvers, never had any problem

 

That is a violation of New York law.

[Malsua 1,422]

Non-resident target shooters may enter or pass through New York State with handguns for the purposes of any NRA approved competition if the competitor has in his possession a copy of the match program, proof of entry and a pistol license from his state of residence. The handgun must be unloaded and transported in a locked opaque container.

 

 

Traveling to CT for CCW does not meet the requirement quoted above. There is no provision for traveling through the State of NY with a pistol except under the enumerated exemptions which boil down to NRA events and Olympic events, therefore taking a pistol through NY is a violation of NY Law. The federal transport laws offer some protection but there is still significant harm(financial at least) that can be done by an over zealous prosecutor out looking to make bones.

 

As I said before, the best advice is for non residents to never take a pistol into NY for any reason.

 

In the real world, most cops would probably let you go assuming you've not got drugs or outstanding warrants and even if the cops booked you most prosecutors probably wouldn't pursue it.

 

The risk is not zero and that's the bottom line.

[rscalzo 3]

There is no provision for traveling through the State of NY

 

Yes there is. Traveling through and traveling To is getting mixed up here. Traveling through under the Federal law is spelled out in NY law.

 

Traveling to CT for CCW

That was not the original question. Transportation through the state was the question. If one wishes to carry through the state, one must have a Concealed Carry Permit valid in NY.

[djg0770 481]

Traveling through and traveling To is getting mixed up here. Traveling through under the Federal law is spelled out in NY law.

 

Non-resident target shooters may enter or pass through New York State with handguns for the purposes of any NRA approved competition if the competitor has in his possession a copy of the match program, proof of entry and a pistol license from his state of residence. The handgun must be unloaded and transported in a locked opaque container.

 

Yup - it's right there in the quote you supplied. Traveling THROUGH requires an NRA event...

[rscalzo 3]

You keep missing this part of the paragraph which is contained in the first few sentences.

 

(A provision of federal law provides a defense to state or local laws which would prohibit the passage of persons with firearms in interstate travel. If a person is traveling from any place where he may lawfully possess and transport a firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and transport such firearm and the firearm is unloaded and in the trunk. In vehicles without a trunk, the unloaded firearm shall be in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console. Necessary stops, e.g., gasoline and rest, seem permissible.)

[V65Magnafan 0]

Bingo.

 

If you are travelling through, you are fine. However, if you stop with your gun in the car for anything more than a bathroom break, you had better be going to a NRA sanctioned event in NYS. Presumably, you can legally uncase and possess your handgun at a NRA sanctioned event in NYS even if you do not have a NYS pistol permit.

 

Is this correct?

[Malsua 1,422]

I didn't miss anything. The federal laws provide a defense. This clearly indicates that there's legal hot water that you need defended from. If it were legal, you wouldn't need a defense from it.

 

This means that you could be charged under NYS laws. If you are ultimately vindicated under a federal laws, that's just wonderful, you've still spent money and time defending against the state laws.

 

I think we can all agree that traveling through the state of NY to a destination beyond NY with a handgun will probably never be a problem for that vast majority of folks.

 

If you happen to go through an anti-gun jurisdiction with an anti-gun prosecutor, you could be out thousands of dollars before you get in front of a judge that dismisses the case.

 

The risk is _NOT_ zero. The only way to make the risk zero is to not bring a handgun into NY. Traveling through NY every day from NJ to CT and back with a handgun just isn't a good idea. Will you get away with it? Probably. I wouldn't risk it repeatedly.

[rscalzo 3]

In 2005, the Office of the Attorney General, Department of justice informed New York State that interstate transportation was not to be impeded is done so in accordance to the standards set under 18 U.S.C., Section 926A.

 

While you may believe that they will chose to ignore it, in recent history that doesn't seem to be the case.

[Malsua 1,422]

In 2005, the Office of the Attorney General, Department of justice informed New York State that interstate transportation was not to be impeded is done so in accordance to the standards set under 18 U.S.C., Section 926A.

 

While you may believe that they will chose to ignore it, in recent history that doesn't seem to be the case.

 

I assume you're talking about this: http://www.nraila.org/images/DOJltrTSA.pdf Which only is specific about airports.

 

Furthermore, even after this 2005 date, there are cases still ongoing. Such as this one: http://www.nraila.org/pdfs/torracoreply.pdf -- that document is dated 27 Oct 2008, roughly 17 months ago. Not 2005.

 

This is still ongoing problem.

[rscalzo 3]

The issues are somewhat different. The issue at hand (all involving airports) are the fact that a continuous journey was not made by the defendants. One issue I see possibly causing a problem is the fact that the defendant in one case is using dual residency which is a touchy issue when dealing with the ATF and state's firearm's laws. But that's another issue.

 

Disregarding if that were true or not as I'm not a legal expert, it doesn't really parallel a direct journey by motor vehicle. Of course one could run afoul if the journey were to be interrupted more than necessary and what that may be is anyone's guess.

 

So getting back to the original question, a trip from NJ to CT. Would an overnight stay be reasonable. Probably not barring some unforeseen circumstance such as inclement weather. Fuel? Of course. Stop for food? Most likely.

 

Outside of incidents at the airports, I'm not aware of recent issues of a transportation in a motor vehicle. I'd be interested to read them.

[V65Magnafan 0]

Well, airline travellers have officially declared their firearm. On the other hand, auto travellers obviously have not.

 

Here are two hypotheticals:

 

Will a traveller's auto or driving style attract the interest of a police officer? And will that police officer have enough probable cause to stop you, get you to open your trunk, get you to open your case, and have the wherewithall to prove that you made a stop in NYS sufficient to void Title 18? All without a warrant?

 

Or, if an auto with Texas plates, let's say, and an NRA sticker on the rear window, and a pro-gun sticker on the bumper provide reasonable cause for a NYS LEO to pull it over. And, if a few brass casings were in plain view, would this be enough to get the trunk open without a warrant? And, could the LEO prove that the Texan made a stop sufficient to void Title 18? Does the officer have the power to search you or your vehicle to find a motel receipt showing that you slept overnight in the state?

 

And, when a prosecutor is handed this evidence--and photos of a Glock trunk locked, case locked, and trigger locked, with ammo separate...will he or she think that there are far more important cases to pursue?

 

I'm not advocating breaking the law. I'm just wondering.

[rscalzo 3]

Does the officer have the power to search you or your vehicle to find a motel receipt showing that you slept overnight in the state?

 

No....and No.

[bulpup 98]

As a former NYC resident I just want to add a little to this even since it is already mostly answered.

 

Be aware that NY does not consider "locked in the trunk" or "locked in the car in the glove box." to be secure. That is why you do not want to stop and get out to do anything other than maybe pump gas. Don't even take a leak. I don't know what they would charge you with, but the NYC license division made it perfectly clear that the weapon would be considered unsecured and I would lose my permit.

 

It is kind of a good idea anyway. There was a time back in the nineties when you would here about trunks opened and items removed in less than a minute. You don't hear about that much anymore but I had seen it happen one day by chance just looking out my office window. The guy did it so fast and with a purpose so it looked like he owned the car and was just opening his trunk.

[V65Magnafan 0]

Thanks Bulpup,

 

When I lived in NYC, I can recall being stopped for a light in the West 70's and watching a heroin addict lift a battery from a parked car. No hood locks in those days. Remember the "no radio" signs?