Transporting to a firearms course

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

I plan to attend a GFH course in south Jersey in a couple of weeks, about two and a half hours from where I live. (They're not giving the same course in this area until next month.) If I drive down the night before and stay in a hotel, will I be in violation of NJ law? Which would be better, keeping my HG in the car or bringing it into my room. Having to drive 2 1/2 hours for a 9:00 AM course could be done, I guess; but I would prefer to be there the night before so I can be refreshed and rested the next morning.

[kenw 293]

You have no idea how much it pisses me off that we even have to ask such questions, and constantly parse the absurd laws to make sure we don't wind up afoul of them.

 

That said, it's my understanding that if the room is registered to you, you're considered to be "in possession" of the property and should be fine. I imagine the gun will be more secure in your room with you than left in the car overnight.

[Malsua 1,422]

 

That said, it's my understanding that if the room is registered to you, you're considered to be "in possession" of the property and should be fine.

 

Can you give me some detail on that? Is there some case precedent on possessing a hotel room?

 

As to the point I agree, if you are in possession of the hotel room, it is legal to have a handgun. The Revell case specifically noted it was not legal for him to have a gun in a hotel room.

 

And to the larger issue...if you take a gun into a hotel room, how would a legal authority ever be aware of it to test the premise? Hypothetically speaking here, if a gun was in a case inside of a suitcase, how would anyone ever know what was in there?

[kenw 293]

Can you give me some detail on that? Is there some case precedent on possessing a hotel room?

 

As to the point I agree, if you are in possession of the hotel room, it is legal to have a handgun. The Revell case specifically noted it was not legal for him to have a gun in a hotel room.

 

And to the larger issue...if you take a gun into a hotel room, how would a legal authority ever be aware of it to test the premise? Hypothetically speaking here, if a gun was in a case inside of a suitcase, how would anyone ever know what was in there?

I can not give you a precedent, it is simply my understanding. I'm sure one the legal experts here will eventually make it clear to us.

 

If so, then Old Glock Guy would be transporting his NJ compliant firearm, in a legal manner, from one exempted location (home) to another (a property in his possession) and from there to another (the range), and finally back home. No airports or other non-exempted locations.

 

Let's not forget that the charges against Revell were dismissed.

 

His claim was for relief for his treatment and the return of his property, and yes, the Court's reading of FOPA was narrowly focused to see it as vehicular transportation through the state without the consideration of a possible overnight stay.

 

Gregg C. Revell v. Port Authority of New York and New Jersey

 

I wonder if anyone coming in to NJ from out of state to shoot at any of the larger events takes an overnight stay, or gets the Hell out of Dodge as fast as their little feet (wheels) can carry them, and stays in a hotel in America.

 

 

ETA:

 

From the NJ Administrative Code Definitions Table

“Occupant” means any person or persons, including guests, in actual physical possession or occupancy of a unit of dwelling space on a regular basis. For purposes of assigning specific duties or responsibilities, the term “occupant”, unless the text indicates otherwise, shall mean the tenant, lessee, head of the family or household, or other adult person or emancipated minor assuming basic responsibility for the continued renting or occupancy of the dwelling space.

 

“Hotel” means any building, including but not limited to any related structure, accessory building and land appurtenant thereto, and any part thereof, which contains ten or more dwelling units or has sleeping facilities for 25 or more persons and is kept, used, maintained, advertised as, or held out to be, a place where sleeping or dwelling accommodations are available to guests. “Hotel” also means any facility that is commonly regarded as a hotel, motor hotel, motel or established guesthouse in the community in which it is located. “Hotel” does not include those facilities that are excluded by statute. (See N.J.S.A. 55:13A-3(j).))

 

“Guest” means any person who occupies a unit of dwelling space either as a temporary occupant or transient in an establishment holding itself out as serving transients or on a temporary or permanent basis in an establishment providing housekeeping or dining services on a regular basis to occupants.

§ 5:10-2.2 Definitions

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

Guys, thanks for your helpful replies. That's kind of what I surmised, but I appreciate your supporting opinions. Kenw, I agree with you that it's a shame that we even have to be asking these kinds of questions all the time.

[ianargent 7]

I would suppose that the hotel stay would be "a diversion reasonably necessary under the circumstances." Though I an sure there are prosecutors who would disagree

[Dan 177]

Your sole leg to stand on is having a good story around "and in the course of travel shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances."

 

• Attending a course early AM (transporting/possessing a HG is allowed for in exemptions)
• Live far away
• Drive down evening before so you can get some sleep before the course
• Go directly home after course

You have to ask yourself if you feel you can defend in court that the hotel stay was a reasonably necessary deviation under the circumstances. Be careful of "reasonably necessary", it is a double edged sword. Anti's love to use the word "reasonably" because it is subjective and can be twisted any which way in court. I would focus on "necessary". It would have to be something very compelling, like you would be very tired for the early morning course if you drive down that morning... compromising yours and others safety during the course.

 

The sad truth is that with a HG if you are not going directly to/from the exempted travel location, you are "at your own peril" for charges to be brought against you in NJ.

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

Thanks for the input. I made the drive on Friday evening, and it took almost three hours, so I probably would have either been late to arrive and/or exhausted if I had done it the next morning. Kept the HG in the room with me overnight. The place was a bit sketchy, so it would have been a good idea to keep it ready, but I can't say what I did, since I have no way of knowing who might be reading this. Also, it seemed like it would have been unreasonable to skip dinner, then breakfast and lunch the next day because I had the HG with me. Again, reluctant to say how I handled it, other than it's a shame that NJ laws might cause law-abiding citizens like us to potentially face criminal charges for what would seem to be reasonable actions.

[Dewhitewolf 8]

My advice is to keep a low profile and don't attract attention. If anyone asks you at the course, just say you drove up that morning. Other than that, if anything unexpected happens, do not consent to any searches.

[ianargent 7]

I've often wondered about taking a handgun on an out-of-state trip. Obviously, the portion outside the state is outside the remit of NJ law; but what about the section within NJ? Especially if I don't go to a range, and never planned to go to a range, out of state.

[Jon 264]

I've often wondered about taking a handgun on an out-of-state trip. Obviously, the portion outside the state is outside the remit of NJ law; but what about the section within NJ? Especially if I don't go to a range, and never planned to go to a range, out of state.

 

FOPA. Is the gun legal at the beginning and ending points of your trip? If so, you're covered.

[ianargent 7]

Doesn't cover the origin or destination if possession is not legal at those endpoints. Possession of a firearm is illegal in NJ if you're not in transit to/from an allowed destination. It certainly won't stop an arrest.