Rob Pincus Video

[Frank Jack Fiamingo 58]

 

 

ENJOY. Parts 2 through 4 are available on our website www.nj2as.com under "MEDIA".

 

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[Joelk 61]

I was just wondering if any progress has been made regarding Rob's offer to do a training class in NJ to benefit NJ2AS?

[Frank Jack Fiamingo 58]

I was just wondering if any progress has been made regarding Rob's offer to do a training class in NJ to benefit NJ2AS?

 

I know that Tom is working on it. I will ask him to do an update.

 

Thank you,

[Tom-NJ2AS 31]

Still working on it. Rob gave us a generous offer, but we need it to work with the ranges.

 

Thanks

[Joelk 61]

Still working on it. Rob gave us a generous offer, but we need it to work with the ranges.

 

Thanks

Thanks for the quick reply. I hope it can get worked out.

[Rob Pincus 12]

I think we missed the window of opportunity for the Spring season, but I really hoping that we can get something on the calendar for 2012... If it this difficult to book a range, no wonder you guys are needed ! :-)

[Frank Jack Fiamingo 58]

I think we missed the window of opportunity for the Spring season, but I really hoping that we can get something on the calendar for 2012... If it this difficult to book a range, no wonder you guys are needed ! :-)

 

Yes - sadly we did not get much cooperation from anyone. Most places do not like to allow "outside" trainers to use their facilities. *VERY* short-sided in my humble opinion, by that is the way things are in New Jersey.We will try for next season. I am sorry, Rob. It was a VERY nice offer you made to the NJ2AS.

 

Thank you,

[Joelk 61]

Yes - sadly we did not get much cooperation from anyone. Most places do not like to allow "outside" trainers to use their facilities. *VERY* short-sided in my humble opinion, by that is the way things are in New Jersey.We will try for next season. I am sorry, Rob. It was a VERY nice offer you made to the NJ2AS.

 

Thank you,

As you guys are close to Anthony from Gun for Hire why don't you ask him to set the course up at South Jersey Shooting club, as it is my understanding that he has the exclusive rights to run training classes there? I know their action range would work well as I have taken other pistol and carbine courses there before the exclusive deal went into effect.

[Caine 147]

Frank - have you contacted Ray Woodrow III from the Buckeye Gun Club in Barnegat? http://www.buckeyegunclub.com/

 

Chris Fry/MDTS (who, coincidentally, has hosted Rob up in NY) does classes there a few times a year. It's a slightly less "formal" range and may be more open to something like this.

[Frank Jack Fiamingo 58]

As you guys are close to Anthony from Gun for Hire why don't you ask him to set the course up at South Jersey Shooting club, as it is my understanding that he has the exclusive rights to run training classes there? I know their action range would work well as I have taken other pistol and carbine courses there before the exclusive deal went into effect.

 

For legitimate business reasons they are unable to accommodate us.

[Frank Jack Fiamingo 58]

Frank - have you contacted Ray Woodrow III from the Buckeye Gun Club in Barnegat? http://www.buckeyegunclub.com/

 

Chris Fry/MDTS (who, coincidentally, has hosted Rob up in NY) does classes there a few times a year. It's a slightly less "formal" range and may be more open to something like this.

 

We will give it a try, Caine!

[Joelk 61]

For legitimate business reasons they are unable to accommodate us.

I guess I shouldn't even ask why. I asked him (and Art) at the meeting and he didn't seem to interested then either.

 

We will give it a try, Caine!

IM sent to facilitate contact.

[Tosser 61]

For legitimate business reasons they are unable to accommodate us.

 

 

Would that legitimate business reason be he doesn't want a Nationally recognized trainer providing training that well surpasses what he offers at a rate significantly lower than he charges?

 

I can see clearly now. Christ it's only one class. That would be a minor cut into his market share.

[Frank Jack Fiamingo 58]

Would that legitimate business reason be he doesn't want a Nationally recognized trainer providing training that well surpasses what he offers at a rate significantly lower than he charges?

 

I can see clearly now. Christ it's only one class. That would be a minor cut into his market share.

 

Actually, no that isn't the reason. If anything Anthony has been generous as possible to the NJ2AS. He has donated his facilities regularly for our meetings both in Belleville and in Winslow. He is donating his and his trainer's time to run a beginning shooters program for me. He even got the range time donated. So, *ANY* implication that Anthony does not do everything in his power to help our organization is coming from a lack of knowledge. I understand that not everyone can know everything about what we are doing, but I think it would be a good thing if people did not make incorrect assumptions about those things they don't know about.

 

Thanks Guys.

[Tosser 61]

Actually, no that isn't the reason. If anything Anthony has been generous as possible to the NJ2AS. He has donated his facilities regularly for our meetings both in Belleville and in Winslow. He is donating his and his trainer's time to run a beginning shooters program for me. He even got the range time donated. So, *ANY* implication that Anthony does not do everything in his power to help our organization is coming from a lack of knowledge. I understand that not everyone can know everything about what we are doing, but I think it would be a good thing if people did not make incorrect assumptions about those things they don't know about.

 

Thanks Guys.

 

It's good to hear Anthony's generosity, but please fill me in as to why it cant be run there, being as Gun For Hire controls exclusive rights to that facility. In the past I know SJSC has held training with national instructors, because I personally hosted classes for a couple years there. The only difference now is the agreement with Gun For Hire.

 

Thanks, but I'm just trying to make this happen for the benefit of the NJ2AS and it's members. Pincus is an awesome opportunity!

[Frank Jack Fiamingo 58]

It's good to hear Anthony's generosity, but please fill me in as to why it cant be run there, being as Gun For Hire controls exclusive rights to that facility. In the past I know SJSC has held training with national instructors, because I personally hosted classes for a couple years there. The only difference now is the agreement with Gun For Hire.

 

Thanks, but I'm just trying to make this happen for the benefit of the NJ2AS and it's members. Pincus is an awesome opportunity!

 

No, I totally get your concern and I thank you. We will make it happen. Unfortunately, it went off my radar. It should not have, but I was juggling a LOT of personal and NJ2AS affairs and I wasn't personally involbved enough in the effort. That will change and I will be able to devote more time to the NJ2AS. I have started to receive a lot more help from the members recently, and that will free me up to keep my eyes on the highest priority items - like bringing Rob in to do training. I guess we are still experiencing some growing pains. I *CAN* say this. It is becoming obvious (at least to *ME*) that we are getting a *LOT* more "right" than we are doing wrong. All we can do is improve on that record. and *THAT* is exactly what we are going to do.

 

The next court date for our lawsuit against the NJ Division of State Police is scheduled for Friday November 4, 2011. If opposing counsel doesn't ask for, and/or isn't granted yet ANOTHER extension - perhaps we can obtain a ruling. If any one isn't doing something that day, and would like to view the proceedings - you are welcome to attend. I believe it is an open court. It was pretty boring the last two times, and we don't actually get to say anything, but in some ways it is interesting to watch.

 

In any event - the wheels of justice move slowly in NJ, ESPECIALLY (it seems) when it comes to anything having to do with the RKBA! :-(

[Tosser 61]

No, I totally get your concern and I thank you. We will make it happen. Unfortunately, it went off my radar. It should not have, but I was juggling a LOT of personal and NJ2AS affairs and I wasn't personally involbved enough in the effort. That will change and I will be able to devote more time to the NJ2AS. I have started to receive a lot more help from the members recently, and that will free me up to keep my eyes on the highest priority items - like bringing Rob in to do training. I guess we are still experiencing some growing pains. I *CAN* say this. It is becoming obvious (at least to *ME*) that we are getting a *LOT* more "right" than we are doing wrong. All we can do is improve on that record. and *THAT* is exactly what we are going to do.

 

The next court date for our lawsuit against the NJ Division of State Police is scheduled for Friday November 4, 2011. If opposing counsel doesn't ask for, and/or isn't granted yet ANOTHER extension - perhaps we can obtain a ruling. If any one isn't doing something that day, and would like to view the proceedings - you are welcome to attend. I believe it is an open court. It was pretty boring the last two times, and we don't actually get to say anything, but in some ways it is interesting to watch.

 

In any event - the wheels of justice move slowly in NJ, ESPECIALLY (it seems) when it comes to anything having to do with the RKBA! :-(

 

 

Frank, thanks for all you do for us here in NJ.

 

However, I don't know how your post relates to my question...

 

To help take some of the work load off you, if you want, I can help you get this off the ground. I have experience hosting classes with nationally know trainers and running shooting matches. Please feel free to reach out if you need a point man on this. Read this as I am volunteering to help.

[Joelk 61]

Frank, sorry for some of the harshness, but I know some of the South Jersey guys, like Tosser, and even myself to some degree, are a little disappointed that South Jersey Shooting Club and Gun for Hire have made an agreement to exclude all other trainers, as we enjoyed taking training classes there with various trainers. As you have seen, between the laws and ranges, it is difficult to get good trainers to come to NJ as it is, without ranges/NJ trainers specifically excluding them.

 

It just seems hard to believe, particularly without a clear reason, that a range that used to have no problem hosting classes (I attended a few there, some that Tosser set up), now can't host Rob for any other reason than that Gun for hire, who has exclusive rights to host classes there, doesn't want it to happen. I even spoke to Art from SJSC at the NJ2AS meeting when Rob made his offer and he was all for a class, but told me to talk to Anthony who did not seem interested.

 

Hopefully you can work something out at Buckeye (who has been very accommodating to various training and forum events)!

[Frank Jack Fiamingo 58]

Frank, thanks for all you do for us here in NJ.

 

However, I don't know how your post relates to my question...

 

To help take some of the work load off you, if you want, I can help you get this off the ground. I have experience hosting classes with nationally know trainers and running shooting matches. Please feel free to reach out if you need a point man on this. Read this as I am volunteering to help.

 

OH! EXCELLENT! OK, Well, please give me a call on my cell anytime tomorrow prior to 6:30M (I have a wake to attend). (732-233-6506). I will put a committee together. I know JoelK is interested,, and also MAK. I think you guys would be great working together. I will ask JoelK to call me as well, and I have MAK - Mike's number and email, so I will get in touch with him. HEY, I really appreciate the offer of help.

 

THANK YOU.

[Frank Jack Fiamingo 58]

Frank, sorry for some of the harshness, but I know some of the South Jersey guys, like Tosser, and even myself to some degree, are a little disappointed that South Jersey Shooting Club and Gun for Hire have made an agreement to exclude all other trainers, as we enjoyed taking training classes there with various trainers. As you have seen, between the laws and ranges, it is difficult to get good trainers to come to NJ as it is without ranges/NJ trainers specifically excluding them.

 

It just seems hard to believe, particularly without a clear reason, that a range that used to have no problem hosting classes (I attended a few there, some that Tosser set up), now can't host Rob for any other reason than that Gun for hire, who has exclusive rights to host classes there, doesn't want it to happen. I even spoke to Art from SJSC at the NJ2AS meeting when Rob made his offer and he was all for a class, but told me to talk to Anthony who did not seem interested.

 

Hopefully you can work something out at Buckeye (who has been very accommodating to various training and forum events)!

 

No, Actually I appreciate that you guys are willing to assist me with this. I asked Tosser to call me, and I would like you to do the same. Anytime tomorrow before 6:30. Probably 9 AM to 12 Is best. I have a lunch meeting. and then say between 2PM and 6 PM. My personal cell is (732) 233-6506. Let's get a committee of guys together who can get this done. I am *VERY* happy to have the help.

 

As far as the rest is concerned - I owned and ran two successful businesses for over 30 years before I retired. I still keep an interest in one. There are times that people have to make business decisions and they can't always please everyone all the time. I don't want to second guess anyone on this. I am just thrilled to get the amount of support I *DO* get from not only Anthony, but also people like Chet Wilson of ShootNJ and his people - Dawn and Grant, etc. Cam Green has also offered to help. So, I am actually very fortunate to have all these guys on my team. I am a glass half full kinda guy. It has worked for me as a businessman, and so far - it is working (for the most part) with the NJ2AS. There is more we CAN do, and there is more we WILL do. And having you guys join in and volunteer like this only serves to support my position. Please call me tomorrow, or if you prefer me to call you, just PM me and I will be happy to do so. My life is an open book. EVERYBODY has my cell number. :-) I am expecting a surprise call from the Attorney General's office any day now. :-) Eh - i am old, what can they do to me. :-)

 

Thanks guys. I am looking forward to working more closely with you.

 

PS - I know there have been others who have offered to help. For a LONG time I was bogged down in the nitty-gritty of making the NJ2AS happen. If I didn't respond, and you haven't lost interest, please accept my apology for not getting back to you right away. Feel free to call me at the same number. Frankly (no pun intended), there was a long time where I couldn't even figure out *WHAT* I could delegate out and what I couldn't. It is becoming a *LOT* clearer the more we grow and the more our programs are starting to come together. For those who are interested, we are running such events as "Beginning Shooters" programs and Women's Programs" Like a "Refuse to be a Victim". This program is particularly dear to my heart, as my wife is studying to become a rape victim advocate. I would rather see her devote her time to advocating for women to be able to DEFEND against rape instead of just "surviving" it... But I digress.

 

Anyway, if you thought I was being an asshole and not accepting offers of help - it really wasn't that. I am not and have never been a "natural" leader. I am learning how to do this each step of the way. Basically, I am happy when I don't muck things up. I feel that you guys have been patient and I appreciate it. We are now at the point where we not only *CAN* use your help - but we are starting to learn HOW to use it. So - "mea culpa", let's move on. Anyone who is still interested, please call me and I will get you involved. We have a BIG meeting with Evan Nappen coming up. We need to PROMOTE the hell out of that. I am having posters and fliers designed and printed up as we speak. I will need people to get them out to the ranges, clubs, gun stores, legion halls, libraries and HELL - doughnut shops for that matter. If they let us post it - it is a good place.

 

I am lining up David Jensen (The Attorney for the SAF/ANJRPC lawsuit) and Alan Gura (you all KNOW who *HE* is) to address our Society in the New Year. Both have already agreed, and it is just a matter of scheduling. We have more appearances planned for Mark Walters Armed American Radio, Tom Gresham's Gun Talk Radio, Gun for Hire radio and other venues. We are being heard, and it is only going to improve over time. Operation Establish Compliance is alive and well. We are finishing the vetting process for Plaintiffs for the first town we are going after, and there is more on the way. So PLEASE stay tuned.

 

BTW - our Video is STILL getting more and more views every day. If you haven't seen it yet - please check it out on our home page at www.nj2as.com. I think you will ENJOY it as much as I do. OK, enough for tonight. Those of you who have not joined the NJ2AS might want to consider doing so now. I am going to have to raise the dues for new members in the near future (increased processing, web, and other costs make it necessary), but right now it is still only $25.00. It is a small price to pay for being a part of the organization that is going to change the gun laws in New Jersey. See you guys soon. AND THANKS!

[Tosser 61]

Frank

 

I'll be away for the next few days. I'll give you a call on Sunday and we can Confrence call in JoelK I have his contact info. When is good for you then?

[gunforhire 826]

Would that legitimate business reason be he doesn't want a Nationally recognized trainer providing training that well surpasses what he offers at a rate significantly lower than he charges?

 

I can see clearly now. Christ it's only one class. That would be a minor cut into his market share.

FYI I had no weigh in on the SJSC to host another school. I do not even know the details. Surpasses my training? Have you taken any of my classes?

 

Anthony

[gunforhire 826]

As you guys are close to Anthony from Gun for Hire why don't you ask him to set the course up at South Jersey Shooting club, as it is my understanding that he has the exclusive rights to run training classes there? I know their action range would work well as I have taken other pistol and carbine courses there before the exclusive deal went into effect.

Joel, I told SJSC that I did not have a problem with another trainer. I believe there was an issue with the cost to rent the facility. I was not involved in the details I only have an agreement with GFH using the facility, I do not own or control the range.

 

Anthony

[Frank Jack Fiamingo 58]

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. Anthony is correct. SJSC was willing to allow us to use the range, but it wasn't cost effective. I have to admit that I was not as involved in this project as I should have been. I did try to make it clear that Anthony is not the problem. If I misrepresented the situation in any way it was due to a lack of knowledge about what transpired. I can only repeat that Anthony has been NOTHING but supportive of *ALL* our efforts. I think we can put this to bed. We will make the classes happen. However, this is not about How good Anthony's classes are - the are THE ABSOLUTE BEST AVAILABLE. People come from all over the Country to attend his classes. There is a reason for that.

 

At any rate, I do not see a reason to extend this thread any further. I am satisfied that we are doing our best to bring these programs to our members and guests. If anyone screwed up on this it was me, and I take full blame. Let's work together to make these classes happen and also to initiate additional programs.

[Tom-NJ2AS 31]

I was in contact with SJSC and as always they were more than willing to help out. We are trying to make the training more affordable for people to sign up. Its great to have a couple of guys but we need to have 12 each at 3 locations. We will make this work. Enough with the bad thoughts, everyone go back to being happy!

[gunforhire 826]

Thank you Frank but there is NO need for you to defend me or my school.

 

The proof is in the success that I have achieved in the oppressive State of NJ with a small group of very skilled seasoned instructors.

 

The real sad story is that the reason they we pro 2A people are in the mess we are in in NJ is that a vast majority are always looking to attack and disparage each other, especially successful ones. The other side is much more organized then we are and have done more to advance their anti gun causes because of that.

 

I know every day that I do more personally, professionally, and financially to help further the 2A cause in NJ because it is my passion. Do I have financial reasons for what I do? You bet! Without $$ I could not be volunteering and donating my time, facilities, instructors, guns, and ammo to ALL of the NJ and national 2A groups the way I do.

 

When you get to the level that Gun For Hire has achieved there will always be detractors. I believe that it is healthy and you are doing something right when you are not pleasing everyone.

 

My solace is in the ten's of thousand of people we have trained since 1992 with not ONE single complaint. Not a bad track record and I am very, very proud of my team.

 

When someone takes a Comparative stab at my classes without ever taken one of my courses I take personal offense to that.

 

It is quite typical to accuse me of putting the wrench in the plans before knowing all of the details. I am glad that not everyone can afford my high prices.

 

Anthony

[bry@n 195]

Not for anything but I think that was pretty Eff'd up that anybody would call Anthony out without having anything to back it up. Just because a business deal between GFH & SJ has pissed them off, now it's okay for them to call people out because they have an axe to grind?

 

That is wrong and I think they owe Anthony an apology.

[Tom-NJ2AS 31]

Well said Bryan. like i said before this was all about trying to give a good deal to our members which we are still working on. My friend actually just took one of Anthonys classes without knowing that i knew him. He texted me while he was there saying how professional they were and how much he learned. Lets get this back on course!

[Joelk 61]

I am happy to apologize to Anthony if I was wrong, but I was told that Gun for Hire has exclusive rights to run training at SJSC at the NJ2AS meeting by Art Barton of SJSC, who I understand also works for Gun for Hire. I also know of other people who have approached SJSC about hosting classes and they were told that Gun for Hire has exclusive rights to host training classes there.

 

I have not made any comments on the quality of Gun for Hire training as I have not taken any. I have been a fellow student with Art Barton at SJSC in the past, but I will refrain from going into what happened then

[gunforhire 826]

I am happy to apologize to Anthony if I was wrong, but I was told that Gun for Hire has exclusive rights to run training at SJSC at the NJ2AS meeting by Art Barton of SJSC, who I understand also works for Gun for Hire. I also know of other people who have approached SJSC about hosting classes and they were told that Gun for Hire has exclusive rights to host training classes there.

 

I have not made any comments on the quality of Gun for Hire training as I have not taken any. I have been a fellow student with Art Barton at SJSC in the past, but I will refrain from going into what happened then

All good Joel, no need to apologize to me for anything. We have debated in the past and I appreciate your insight and candid responses.

 

Anthony