Need Help Getting My New Saiga 922r Compliant

[BobC 0]

Hello all, my name is Bob, I am a new member to the forum from the Middlesex County area. I have just purchased this 7.62x39 Saiga rifle from Atlantic Firearms http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct1018.aspx and would like to make some modifications to it and was wondering if someone could guide me along while keeping it 922r legal. I have read articles and watched videos and just cant seem to grasp some of it. The gun has a 24mm thread already on the gun to accept a Muzzle Brake I am interested in this one from aa-ok.com http://aa-ok.com/ak74-brake-24mm-thread.html I would also like to add a new stock and pistol grip like this one from Tapco http://tapco.com/products/saiga/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=159 I understand I will need to pin the stock. And beside these few changes I would like to shoot the 15 rd surefire magazine with this gun for now. Can anyone help me make these changes and keep the gun legal? Much appreciation in advance Bob.

[jvheitz 5]

Hi Bob..

I am nearly complete with my conversion of the stock saiga 7.62. See the pinned thread in this section

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php?/topic/21787-saiga-conversion-information/

as well as this thread on 922 compliance:

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php?/topic/26413-922-compliance-work-in-progress/

 

Vlad has been very helpful and put out a great deal of information on converting these.

[BobC 0]

From what I have read it sounds to me that a USA made muzzle brake is legal and does not count as long as it is pinned and welded? And the same with the stock and pistol grip if they are US made and fixed it should be 922 compliant without changing internal parts? If that is true I just need to figure out how to keep the 15 round mags legal in the gun.

[jvheitz 5]

Bob,

Quoted from Vlad's conversion thread:

NJ assault weapon ban...

 

is the gun specifically listed as being banned by name? NO it is a clone.. so that means it is legal as long as you play the evil features game...

 

a semi automatic rifle is to be considered substantially identical if it has a detachable magazine and at least TWO of the following features...

 

* Pistol grip (this is the ONE "evil feature" you will have)

* bayonet lug (CAN'T HAVE)

* flash hider or threaded barrel capable of accepting a flash hider (if you want a muzzle BRAKE you can have it.. just needs to be pinned and welded)

* folding or telescopic stock (CAN'T HAVE)

* grenade launcher (CAN'T HAVE)

 

so a standard Saiga is good to go per NJ AWB laws providing you follow that info..

 

and

 

next is 922 compliance.. the gun is imported as a sporting rifle (low capacity magazine, no pistol grip, etc.) if you negate the sporting function (adding higher cap magazine, and pistol grip.. you need to take the total amount of imported parts present on the rifle.. and replace them with US made parts..

 

http://gunwiki.net/G...erifyCompliance

 

the gun comes with 14 countable parts... these are foreign parts you will replace with US parts... you need to get the parts count down to 10... I recommend 9 just so there is a buffer.. you can NOT count parts that are not there yet..

 

meaning ADDING a US made pistol grip cancels itself out.. there was no pistol grip on the rifle when it was imported..

adding a foreign pistol grip would add an additional part to the original list.. making one more part to make up for..

adding a US made one cancels itself out because you go from 14 countable parts.. to 15.. but then since it is a US made pistol grip the part comes back off.. leaving the overall count unchanged..

 

most people do the following for simple compliance..

US made stock - 1 part

US made pistol grip - no change

US made fire control group (I recommend Tapco G2 they are great..) - 3 parts

US made hand guard - 1 part

 

this would get you down to 9 foreign parts total netting a rifle that is 922 compliant..

 

at the end of all this you end up with a gun that is both 922 and NJ compliant..

 

 

For NJ you need the muzzle brake pinned/welded

In addition to changing your stock for 922 compliance, I believe you also need to change your trigger group and hand guard to get total foreign parts down to 10.

Changing the stock to US made gives you 13 foreign, adding a pistol grip still leaves you with 13.

[M4BGRINGO 139]

Good thing our government doesn't require the automobile manufacturers to comply with a stupid rule like our wonderful 922 rule or we would all be walking............

 

James, did you finish your conversion yet?

[jvheitz 5]

Good thing our government doesn't require the automobile manufacturers to comply with a stupid rule like our wonderful 922 rule or we would all be walking............

 

James, did you finish your conversion yet?

 

99% complete..

I am waiting for the bullet guide from CSS. Stuck with the stock 10 round mag until then. I posted some pics in the thread.

[vladtepes 1,060]

+1 to jvheitz

those are the relevant links..

 

From what I have read it sounds to me that a USA made muzzle brake is legal and does not count as long as it is pinned and welded? And the same with the stock and pistol grip if they are US made and fixed it should be 922 compliant without changing internal parts? If that is true I just need to figure out how to keep the 15 round mags legal in the gun.

 

just to be %100 clear

parts that were NOT on the gun when imported only count if you add foreign parts.. meaning this...

 

a muzzle device adds one more countable part..

if you use a US made one.. that countable part is canceled out..

if a foreign one.. then you must make adjustments elsewhere to make up for that foreign part..

 

and as per NJ law.. yes the muzzle device can NOT be a flash hider.... and MUST be a brake ONLY.. this device must be permanent on the gun.. meaning removing it would cause damage.. generally pinned and welded is the way to go..

 

 

for clarity...

 

Changing the stock to US made gives you 13 foreign, adding a (US MADE) pistol grip still leaves you with 13.

[vladtepes 1,060]

I would also like to add a new stock and pistol grip like this one from Tapco http://tapco.com/pro...d&productId=159 I understand I will need to pin the stock. And beside these few changes I would like to shoot the 15 rd surefire magazine with this gun for now. Can anyone help me make these changes and keep the gun legal? Much appreciation in advance Bob.

 

do not put that garbage on your gun.. move the fire control group forward... put in the time to do the work right the first time.. TRUST ME.. it makes all the difference in the world...

 

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php?/topic/21787-saiga-conversion-information/

 

 

[BobC 0]

Thanks for the help so far...in reading I see that a lot of people recommend the Single hook G2 trigger group. When I order this will I need anything else to change it out? one site says I will need a Axis Pin Retaining Plate or spring to hold the trigger group in place and a disconnect spring? Also Vlad can you recommend a how-to or follow along for moving the fire control group forward? Thanks I am a noob to this stuff.

[jvheitz 5]

Bob,

Here is what I did:

I finally have my rifle (thanks to Chris at BTS)!

Stripped it down last night, looked everything over, and watched some more youtube conversion videos. Winslow is almost 2 hours from me, so I went online to CSS.

First looked through their conversion kits. Did not find anything with the wooden stock/grip/etc. listed there, so I guess I am purchasing everything separately.

I plan on installing the bullet guide. Watched a few vids, this seems quite simple really. (not in stock, have to wait until 12/21)

Also, I guess since I am putting the tapco wood (http://store.carolin...il?sfs=76ccc77e) I will need to:

1. Move the trigger guard

2. Change the gas tube (http://store.carolin...il?sfs=76ccc77e)

3. Add Handguard retaining lower bracket (http://store.carolin...il?sfs=76ccc77e)

 

Trigger:

1. Replace the trigger (http://store.carolin...il?sfs=76ccc77e)

2. Install axis pin retaining plate (http://store.carolin...il?sfs=7dbd461c)

3. Disconnector spring (http://store.carolin...il?sfs=52f5da9f)

 

unfortunately a lot of the parts are not in stock at CSS (gas tube, axis pin retaining plate, bullet guide).

Am I forgetting something?

Also, I am not sure on moving the trigger guard, cant I just replace it with something like this (http://store.carolin...il?sfs=2b4bd147)?

 

I wound up replacing the trigger guard instead of trimming it and reusing it. I am still waiting for my bullet guide, and will update my thread once that is done.

 

Also get the plugs to fill the holes left from the rivets (http://store.carolin...le-plugs/Detail)

 

Thanks again to Vlad - he was very helpful.

See the links in his signature for conversion info.

[vladtepes 1,060]

Thanks for the help so far...in reading I see that a lot of people recommend the Single hook G2 trigger group. When I order this will I need anything else to change it out? one site says I will need a Axis Pin Retaining Plate or spring to hold the trigger group in place and a disconnect spring? Also Vlad can you recommend a how-to or follow along for moving the fire control group forward? Thanks I am a noob to this stuff.

 

if you are moving the trigger forward.. you will need the following parts...

 

AK pistol grip (and screw to mount it)

AK pistol grip nut

AK stock

AK fire control group (I use a Tapco G2 and am very happy with it)

AK Axis pin retainer clip

Nylon plugs to fill the holes (unless of course you are a good welder)

 

you can reuse the Saiga trigger guard

you can also reuse the Saiga disconnecter spring..

 

that is all off the top of my head..

some if not all of those are going to need to be US made to keep you 922 compliant..

[BobC 0]

Thanks so much I'll start hunting this stuff down tomorrow. Good thing I am on vacation this week. Also I plan on using the plastic mags for now I would like to use the 15 rd surefire mags. I have read a few places that these mags add 3 points? I don't understand how they are wording that. I get that the mag is made up of 3 countable points but if they are plastic US made mags does it make a difference? I am pretty new to guns but from what a lot of people have told me I came to believe 15 rounds was the max for guns in Jersey...?

[vladtepes 1,060]

Thanks so much I'll start hunting this stuff down tomorrow. Good thing I am on vacation this week. Also I plan on using the plastic mags for now I would like to use the 15 rd surefire mags. I have read a few places that these mags add 3 points? I don't understand how they are wording that. I get that the mag is made up of 3 countable points but if they are plastic US made mags does it make a difference? I am pretty new to guns but from what a lot of people have told me I came to believe 15 rounds was the max for guns in Jersey...?

 

 

the government decided at some point.. that certain parts of a gun are integral to its function.. these parts became "countable parts" the reason this even exists is because there was a time where imported guns were being purchased as kits and then just assembled to circumvent law.. the idea behind 922 compliance is.. it is perfectly legal to assemble a gun.. the 922 compliance dictates if the gun is to be considered an imported gun or a US build.. the gun being a "US build" allows for the use of certain features that cause guns not to be imported..

 

for example...

A Russian built Saiga is allowed to be imported in a sporting configuration.. this configuration includes the sum of its sporting parts.. trigger... hammer.. magazine body.. follower.. gas piston.. etc..

ALL of these parts are what creates a Russian built sporting Saiga rifle..

You then go to make the gun NON sporting (pistol grip.. increased mag capacity, etc...) you can not do that to a Saiga in its imported Russian configuration..

if you replace enough of the Russian parts with US parts.. you are essentially changing enough of the gun to have it considered no longer its original imported self.. and a US made gun can have non sporting parts..

 

it is honestly a stupid law.. but it is the way it is.. it basically is an attempt to halt importation of "scary" mil spec guns..

 

so when you use US made mags.. that are ALL US.. you end up with THREE countable parts.. magazine body.. floor plate.. and follower.. the government has decided that these are "countable parts" individually.. so a whole magazine equates to three.. BUT keep in mind the second you use the original Saiga mag.. you just lost three.. so I prefer to NOT rely on the magazine for parts count...

 

if you use US stock US pistol grip US fire control group (Tapco G2) and a US made brake.. that SHOULD get you down to 10 foreign parts and you should be good to go.. as it is 10 OR less foreign parts..

[BobC 0]

Vlad, I like the stock you use looks like an AR style where can I pick one up for my Saiga conversion?

[vladtepes 1,060]

Vlad, I like the stock you use looks like an AR style where can I pick one up for my Saiga conversion?

 

it is kind of pricey considering in NJ it would have to be pinned and you would not be able to utilize the ability to adjust....

 

BUT if you wanted it anyway you would need the following..

 

carolina shooter supply OR Ace internal block adapter..

ACE pig nose adapter...

AR buffer tufe

then AR stock of your choice..

 

I never used this setup while in NJ because it just seemed wasted..

[BobC 0]

Thanks, it looks so damn good on the gun though. I ordered all of my conversion stuff from Carolina Shooters today cant wait to get to work on this thing very excited.

[vladtepes 1,060]

good luck with it.. let me know if you have any issues..

[jvheitz 5]

Bob - did you order the bullet guide? Been trying to order that for a couple of weeks now, but they dont show any stock. I emailed Greg a few times and he said they were still on order and hes not sure when they are coming in.

[BobC 0]

Finally tackled this project. My father purchased the same gun. Here is a before and after pic using his standard Saiga against mine. Getting the Bold Hold Open back into place was a SOB. Thank you Vlad and everyone else for all the help.

[vladtepes 1,060]

if that barrel is threaded.. it NEEDS to have something on there permanently attached.. if it is just open threads or thread protector that is not permanent.... it is an AW violation per NJ law..

 

but besides that good job..

[BobC 0]

Thanks, Yeah I have been waiting for my muzzle brake for 3 weeks ordered from AA-OK.com and havent heard anything. I am about to drop them an email.

[Jaws 1]

Sorry, not trying to steal your thread but 2 quick questions. I do not want to do a full conversion. I was thinking of adding the ace stock with attached pg and a quad rail forearm. If I understand correctly that makes it not legal with regards to 922r? Also is the ace stock with attached pg crap as well? I really like the one on my AR.

[vladtepes 1,060]

Sorry, not trying to steal your thread but 2 quick questions. I do not want to do a full conversion. I was thinking of adding the ace stock with attached pg and a quad rail forearm. If I understand correctly that makes it not legal with regards to 922r? Also is the ace stock with attached pg crap as well? I really like the one on my AR.

 

there is no point bothering to mess with the gun with any of that garbage that is any less than a full conversion..

as others have seen time and time again.. the correct conversion creates an entirely different gun.. the factory fire control group is GARBAGE... the proper conversion can be done with a drill.. screwdriver.. and a rock.. there is no logical reason to put any of that shortcut garbage on there... I am not trying to be harsh.. but those stock pg combo things are ALL junk.. they are stupid.. and they actually make the gun worse than factory..

 

it is my opinion that once you add a pistol grip 922 compliance must be taken into account..

 

just do the conversion properly.. you will be amazed.. just like the 8 million other people who have done it.. some of which are on this board..

 

did I mention that the stock pg combos are complete trash?

[Jaws 1]

 

 

there is no point bothering to mess with the gun with any of that garbage that is any less than a full conversion..

as others have seen time and time again.. the correct conversion creates an entirely different gun.. the factory fire control group is GARBAGE... the proper conversion can be done with a drill.. screwdriver.. and a rock.. there is no logical reason to put any of that shortcut garbage on there... I am not trying to be harsh.. but those stock pg combo things are ALL junk.. they are stupid.. and they actually make the gun worse than factory..

 

it is my opinion that once you add a pistol grip 922 compliance must be taken into account..

 

just do the conversion properly.. you will be amazed.. just like the 8 million other people who have done it.. some of which are on this board..

 

did I mention that the stock pg combos are complete trash?

 

Hmm I guess it will be quad rail only then.

[vladtepes 1,060]

quad rail is IMO heavy and awkward on AK.. mounting of weapon accessories can be achieved in other ways.. what do you need to mount on the gun?

[Jaws 1]

quad rail is IMO heavy and awkward on AK.. mounting of weapon accessories can be achieved in other ways.. what do you need to mount on the gun?

 

Like to mount optics and bipod. Not a fan of the Russian way of mounting on the side.

[vladtepes 1,060]

Like to mount optics and bipod. Not a fan of the Russian way of mounting on the side.

 

what kind of Saiga are you mounting a Bipod to?

 

if you want a red dot type optic then there is NO better way than the Ultimak rail with an Aimpoint ($600) or Primary arms ($120?) red dot on it.. it will cowitness your irons.. and you wont have this big obnoxious heavy rail on the front of the gun.. the forward mount is ideal for reflex sights..

 

for a traditional magnified scope there is no better system than the side mount.. as a magnified scope will be better closer to your eyes...

 

as for bipod... I can't really imagine a use for one? but if you want one can't you just mount a Harris or similar unit to the factory swivel mount on the stock handguard..

 

http://thegunwiki.com/Gunwiki/ProcInstallBipodSaiga

 

I am in no way trying to knock you.. you can do what you like.. but I have "been there done that" I have had wood.. rails.. plastic.. have had MANY Saigas in MANY configurations.. just trying to save you the trouble of reducing the efficiency of the weapon.. also.. why not converting it.. it is very simple and makes a HUGE difference.. a lot more of a difference than rails and bipods..

[M4BGRINGO 139]

Ordered all my stuff a few days ago from CSS, we'll see how the conversion goes. James, you ready for a phone call?

[Jaws 1]

7.62x39 I like the idea of bipod supported shooting. Never had a rifle like that so I want to set up the saiga with a bipod. No real reason just want to try and see. A rail would give me quick detach. I'll look into the ultimak, thanks.

 

Converting, I don't want to f up the rifle. Never done anything like it, have little patience and equally bad with tools and directions. Not a good combo which leads to me buggering stuff up.

[Jaws 1]

Who knows though. Have to read up on everything. A new trigger would be nice.