Question about NJ transportation law - in practice

[halbautomatisch 60]

Technically it is legal for a FPID card holder to have an unloaded and uncased long gun on a gun rack in a truck. Funny, I just had this conversation with a fellow from PA over at CJ today. He was explaining how the Marlin 45-70 he was shooting was his "truck gun", that got the convo started.

 

As long as you aren't doing anything else with the long gun that would break the law, like pointing it at people, or threatening to use it on someone, etc, I don't think that LE could charge you with anything. That being said, as always... this is NJ, and this behavior will cause issues unless you are out in the wilderness or a hunting area. All about context and discretion when it comes to guns in NJ.

 

From what I recall, it would need to be cased or wrapped or in the trunk. I believe it's a fish and game regulation that also applies to bows and crossbows.

[Qel Hoth 33]

From what I recall, it would need to be cased or wrapped or in the trunk. I believe it's a fish and game regulation that also applies to bows and crossbows.

 

I would argue (theoretically only for obvious reasons...) that that doesn't apply to a long gun if the person possessing it has an FPID.

 

2C:39-5 Unlawful Possession of Weapons

 

c.Rifles and shotguns.

 

(1) Any person who knowingly has in his possession any rifle or shotgun without having first obtained a firearms purchaser identification card in accordance with the provisions of N.J.S.2C:58-3, is guilty of a crime of the third degree.

 

(2)Unless otherwise permitted by law, any person who knowingly has in his possession any loaded rifle or shotgun is guilty of a crime of the third degree.

 

 

2C:39-4 Possession of weapons for unlawful purposes

 

a.Firearms. (1) Any person who has in his possession any firearm with a purpose to use it unlawfully against the person or property of another is guilty of a crime of the second degree.

 

 

2C:39-2 Presumptions

 

a. Possession of firearms, weapons, destructive devices, silencers, or explosives in a vehicle. When a firearm, weapon, destructive device, silencer, or explosive described in this chapter is found in a vehicle, it is presumed to be in the possession of the occupant if there is but one. If there is more than one occupant in the vehicle, it shall be presumed to be in the possession of all, except under the following circumstances:

 

(1) When it is found upon the person of one of the occupants, it shall be presumed to be in the possession of that occupant alone;

 

(2) When the vehicle is not a stolen one and the weapon or other instrument is found out of view in a glove compartment, trunk or other enclosed customary depository, it shall be presumed to be in the possession of the occupant or occupants who own or have authority to operate the vehicle; and

 

(3) When the vehicle is a taxicab and a weapon or other instrument is found in the passenger's portion of the vehicle, it shall be presumed to be in the possession of all the passengers, if there are any, and if not, in the possession of the driver.

 

b. Licenses and permits. When the legality of a person's conduct under this chapter depends on his possession of a license or permit or on his having registered with or given notice to a particular person or agency, it shall be presumed that he does not possess such a license or permit or has not registered or given the required notice, until he establishes the contrary.

 

 

Rifle is unloaded on a gun rack in your truck, there is no occupant, truck is registered to you, you have a FPID in your possession.

 

Under 2C:39-2 a (2), the rifle is in your possession. 2C:39-5 c (1) doesn't apply because you have a FPID. 2C:39-5 c (2) doesn't apply because it is unloaded. 2C:39-4a doesn't apply because you have no intent to use it unlawfully.

 

 

Rifle is unloaded on a gun rack in your truck, you are the only occupant, you have FPID in your possession.

 

Under 2C:39-2 a, the rifle is in your possession. 2C:39-5 c (1) doesn't apply because you have a FPID. 2C:39-5 c (2) doesn't apply because it is unloaded. 2C:39-4a doesn't apply because you have no intent to use it unlawfully.

 

 

Rifle is unloaded on a gun rack in your truck, multiple occupants, all have FPID in their possession.

 

Under 2C:39-2 a, the rifle is in possession of all occupants. 2C:39-5 c (1) doesn't apply because everyone has a FPID. 2C:39-5 c (2) doesn't apply because it is unloaded. 2C:39-4a doesn't apply because you have no intent to use it unlawfully. However, possible 2C:58 issues.

 

As always, IANAL.

[Justjules 0]

NJFID + long gun... no need to follow 39-6 exemptions... and the whole "reasonably necessary" stop thing. It just has to be unloaded.

 

I dont understand the states position on being more strict for Handguns...I can tell you I would rather get in a gunfight with someone with a hand gun than a Shotgun or rifle. You have a better chance of survival getting shot with a hand gun than a shotgun of high power rifle.

[Qel Hoth 33]

I dont understand the states position on being more strict for Handguns...I can tell you I would rather get in a gunfight with someone with a hand gun than a Shotgun or rifle. You have a better chance of survival getting shot with a hand gun than a shotgun of high power rifle.

 

I think it has more to do with ease of concealment than stopping power. Hence the minimum lengths (state and federal) for rifles/shotguns, ban on collapsing and folding stocks, etc.

 

I can walk into a store with a handgun in my waistband and you wont know until I pull it out. Much harder to pull off with a rifle or shotgun. (Not that criminals dont have SBS, folding/collapsing stocks anyway...

[Justjules 0]

I think it has more to do with ease of concealment than stopping power. Hence the minimum lengths (state and federal) for rifles/shotguns, ban on collapsing and folding stocks, etc.

 

I can walk into a store with a handgun in my waistband and you wont know until I pull it out. Much harder to pull off with a rifle or shotgun. (Not that criminals dont have SBS, folding/collapsing stocks anyway...

 

We find kids with 3 feet long Machetes concealed in their jeans..You see the close these kids wear?

[Qel Hoth 33]

We find kids with 3 feet long Machetes concealed in their jeans..You see the close these kids wear?

 

Never said it was impossible, just a lot harder.

 

Plus a machete is 36"x4"x1/2". AR is more like 36"x10"x2-3" Little bit bigger means more chance of it printing, plus its A LOT heavier, would need to be supported in some way.

[hd2000fxdl 422]

Im sure in this sue happy state you could be held civilly liable..Cant think of anything criminally unless you made an unessential stop somewhere to get a cup of coffee.. :keeporder:

 

If your a FID holder you're not required to go to and from a exempt location with a long gun, handgun yes, not a long gun..

[LorenzoS 100]

Not familiar with those names, please educate.disregard, googled them.

 

So now that you're familiar with those cases, can you begin to appreciate why there is little comfort in statements like "I can assure you no cop in NJ is wasting their time arresting a lawful gun owner on any of your concerns."

 

I also call your attention to fellow officer "ar15f117" over here with an entirely mixed up notion of what is legal or illegal in the state and proclaims "I guarantee you that a competent Police Officer will arrest and charge the individual with unlawful possession of a firearm." for what is clearly a perfectly legal transport activity. I do not believe this is the only police officer with a policy to falsely arrest first and let the judge sort it out later.

[Justjules 0]

So now that you're familiar with those cases, can you begin to appreciate why there is little comfort in statements like "I can assure you no cop in NJ is wasting their time arresting a lawful gun owner on any of your concerns."

 

I also call your attention to fellow officer "ar15f117" over here with an entirely mixed up notion of what is legal or illegal in the state and proclaims "I guarantee you that a competent Police Officer will arrest and charge the individual with unlawful possession of a firearm." for what is clearly a perfectly legal transport activity. I do not believe this is the only police officer with a policy to falsely arrest first and let the judge sort it out later.

 

The Airport scenario I can see being a high profile type of incident and in this day and age with tensions being high as far as security (or the joke that they call security) I can see the cops making a judgement call that may have at the time seemed to them the right thing to do. I for one would not make that type of call and would put it on the back of a superior officer to do so. Also another thing to consider is the Port Authority is a private police agency that answer to themselves and the airport is private property owned by the P.A. What might be legal and make sense on the street just outside the airport, may not be legal or make sense inside the airport.

One other thing to consider is the media reporting of the facts of the case may be skewed to fit the author of the articles agenda. We all know the media does not care about reporting the facts as much as conforming to whatever picture they wish to paint at the time. An anti gun reporter will report the facts of the case from his perspective, and an an anti cop pro gun reporter would report the facts different also. There may be fact of the case that we are not aware of or privileged to, and have to draw our own conclusions from what we are told by those reporting the incident to us.

 

The second case where the guy was summonsed back to the scene,I will agrre that the cops may have acted improperly but once again we were not there at the scene and can not determine the type of urgency the mother portrayed when calling 911. She obviously called fearing that her son was suicidal and the cops were obligated to investigate the incident. It is a double edged sword at that point, as a responding officer do you take the civil liability of simply talking to the person on the phone and later he does commit suicide then the family sues you. Or do you have him respond back to the scene and make the determination as to his mental state from there. Both option come with risk and liability as we can see from the end result. The only issue we need to ask is, what prompted the search of his closed trunk to find the fire arms?? That is where the whole thing goes bad...

 

As far as him later being convicted on the charge of transporting hollow point bullets from one residence to another on a technicality that the law doe not have provision for it, well thats just retarded...But understand the law was made by politicians, prosecutors and lawmaker..So their the ones with their heads up their a$$e$ when it comes to how stupid the law is.

[H.M. Murdock 0]

I've got a question -- is the physical FID card the actual permit or is it just the proof that you are permitted?

 

Every Sunday after shooting, myself, 2 judges and an attorney stop by the diner for breakfast.

 

They didn't serve me breakfast the last time I sat at a table with 3 attorneys.

[johnp 45]

I've got a question -- is the physical FID card the actual permit or is it just the proof that you are permitted?

 

Most on here have come to understand the law to say, that if you have gone through the process of obtaining an FID card, you are allowed to store an UN-loaded long gun in your vehicle, and none of the exemptions apply. (resonable deviation,etc.) But I for one would still recommed keeping your FID in your wallet.

 

Did I answer your question? I'm not really sure.

[H.M. Murdock 0]

Most on here have come to understand the law to say, that if you have gone through the process of obtaining an FID card, you are allowed to store an UN-loaded long gun in your vehicle, and none of the exemptions apply. (resonable deviation,etc.) But I for one would still recommed keeping your FID in your wallet.

 

Did I answer your question? I'm not really sure.

 

So, hypothetically, if I've got the unloaded long gun in my vehicle AND, for whatever reason, the LEO discovers this AND I've misplaced my FID card while in transit.. is the combination of my D/L, SBI # and right thumb equivalent to presenting the FID card either during the stop or in front of a judge (to get the charges dismissed in case the officer decides to arrest)?

[Justjules 0]

So, hypothetically, if I've got the unloaded long gun in my vehicle AND, for whatever reason, the LEO discovers this AND I've misplaced my FID card while in transit.. is the combination of my D/L, SBI # and right thumb equivalent to presenting the FID card either during the stop or in front of a judge (to get the charges dismissed in case the officer decides to arrest)?

 

What I would do as the stopping officer, is call the township you live or the state police and see if you actually had an FID card and take all steps necessary to verify.. We do it all the time when serving domestic violence TRO's. We check our records to see if the offender is a licensed fire arm owner prior to going there to serve or arrest. Usually a TRO results in the seizure of the offenders weapons and FID card till the case is resolved.

[ianargent 7]

I'm mobile, so I don't have the exact citation, but there's a bit in the FID laws that states (basically) that the presumption must be that if you are not in possession of FID that you do not have one. Laminate and carry your card.

[H.M. Murdock 0]

What I would do as the stopping officer, is call the township you live or the state police and see if you actually had an FID card and take all steps necessary to verify.. We do it all the time when serving domestic violence TRO's. We check our records to see if the offender is a licensed fire arm owner prior to going there to serve or arrest. Usually a TRO results in the seizure of the offenders weapons and FID card till the case is resolved.

 

Ahh, thank you sir

 

I'm mobile, so I don't have the exact citation, but there's a bit in the FID laws that states (basically) that the presumption must be that if you are not in possession of FID that you do not have one. Laminate and carry your card.

 

Mine is laminated but I clip it to my log book because the state, in its infinite wisdom, has made the FID card too large to fit in a standard wallet. You'd need an entire cow to make a wallet big enough to hold the damned thing!

[ianargent 7]

Mine fits, barely, into a vertical credit card pocket in my wallet. Just in case I get a sudden urge to buy ammo :-)

[NJDrew1 0]

Mine fits, barely, into a vertical credit card pocket in my wallet. Just in case I get a sudden urge to buy ammo :-)

 

Yep, the government is stupid, even when it comes to designing ID cards that you're forced to carry. The least they could have done was to make the size small enough where you won't munge it up in your wallet.

[halbautomatisch 60]

I would argue (theoretically only for obvious reasons...) that that doesn't apply to a long gun if the person possessing it has an FPID.

 

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Rifle is unloaded on a gun rack in your truck, there is no occupant, truck is registered to you, you have a FPID in your possession.

 

Under 2C:39-2 a (2), the rifle is in your possession. 2C:39-5 c (1) doesn't apply because you have a FPID. 2C:39-5 c (2) doesn't apply because it is unloaded. 2C:39-4a doesn't apply because you have no intent to use it unlawfully.

 

 

Rifle is unloaded on a gun rack in your truck, you are the only occupant, you have FPID in your possession.

 

Under 2C:39-2 a, the rifle is in your possession. 2C:39-5 c (1) doesn't apply because you have a FPID. 2C:39-5 c (2) doesn't apply because it is unloaded. 2C:39-4a doesn't apply because you have no intent to use it unlawfully.

 

 

Rifle is unloaded on a gun rack in your truck, multiple occupants, all have FPID in their possession.

 

Under 2C:39-2 a, the rifle is in possession of all occupants. 2C:39-5 c (1) doesn't apply because everyone has a FPID. 2C:39-5 c (2) doesn't apply because it is unloaded. 2C:39-4a doesn't apply because you have no intent to use it unlawfully. However, possible 2C:58 issues.

 

As always, IANAL.

 

It's a fish and game law, the important part is in red below.

 

 

 

 

 

7:25-5.23 Firearms and missiles, etc.

(a) Except when legally engaged in deer or black bear hunting during the prescribed firearm seasons,

respectively, no person shall have in his or her possession in the woods, fields, marshlands or

on the water any shell or cartridge with missiles of any kind larger than No. 4 fine shot. This shall

not apply to persons properly licensed and permitted for hunting during the special eastern coyote,

red fox and gray fox hunting season, exclusively, who may use fine shot no smaller than #4 (.13

inches in diameter) or larger than #T (.20 inches in diameter). This shall not preclude farmers or

their agents from using shot not larger than No. 4 buckshot to control woodchuck causing damage

or a properly licensed person from hunting woodchuck with a rifle during the woodchuck season.

For hunting woodchuck, center-fire rifles of .25 caliber or smaller or rim-fire rifles may be used.

Center-fire rifles larger than .25 caliber may also be used provided that the bullets used do not exceed

100 grains in weight. All center-fire rifle ammunition used in hunting woodchucks must be

hollow point, soft point or expanding lead core bullets. All rim-fire rifle ammunition used in hunting

woodchuck must be hollow point or soft point type. Also excepted is the use of a muzzleloading

rifle, .36 caliber or smaller, loaded with a single projectile during the prescribed portion of the

squirrel season in designated areas. Waterfowl hunters may possess and use shotgun shells loaded

with T (.200") steel fine shot or smaller or other non-toxic shot authorized by Federal regulations no

larger than T (.200") shot and properly licensed persons hunting for raccoon or opossum with

hounds or engaged in trapping for furbearing animals may possess and use a .22 caliber rifle and

raccoon, or opossum or legally trapped furbearing animals other than muskrat. Notwithstanding the

foregoing, this subsection shall not preclude agents and/or permittees operating under an approved

Special Deer Management Permit (N.J.A.C. 7:25-5.32) from shooting deer with a rifle or a rifle

equipped with a silencer or suppressor if that permit so specifically provides. Rifles for this purpose

shall be restricted as specifically provided in that permit to include only .22, .223, .270 and .45 caliber

or other calibers approved by the Division. Only highly frangible bullets shall be employed in

.223 and .270 caliber rifles. Bullets employed in .22 and .45 caliber rifles shall be restricted to those

designed to provide maximum expansion and limited penetration. As a part of a Special Deer Management

Permit, use of .22 rim-fire ammunition is restricted to euthanasia of captive deer only.

(b) All persons in possession of a rifle while hunting or trapping must have in addition to their

proper license, a valid and proper rifle permit.

© Except as may be permitted for waterfowl hunting in accordance with Federal regulations

and as provided for agents and/or permittees operating under an approved Special Deer Management

Permit (N.J.A.C. 7:25-5.32), no person shall use in hunting fowl or animals of any kind, any

shotgun capable of holding more than three shells at one time or that may be fired more than three

times without reloading. Except as provided for agents and/or permittees operating under an approved

Special Deer Management Permit (N.J.A.C. 7:25-5.32), no person shall use in hunting or

trapping of any kind, a rifle loaded with more than three cartridges. No person shall have in his or

her possession while deer hunting on Monmouth Battlefield State Park any shell or cartridge with

missiles of any kind other than shotgun slugs or No. 4 or No. 000 buckshot.

(d) It shall be legal to use a .22 caliber rifle and .22 caliber short cartridge only for hunting raccoon

and opossum with hounds and for killing legally trapped animals other than muskrats on State

wildlife management areas.

53

(e) Within the areas described as portions of Passaic, Mercer, Hunterdon, Warren, Morris and

Sussex Counties lying within a continuous line beginning at the intersection of Rt. 513 and the New

York State line; then south along Rt. 513 to its intersection with Rt. 511; then south along Rt. 511 to

its intersection with Rt. 46; then west along Rt. 46 to its intersection with Rt. 80; then west along Rt.

80 to its intersection with Rt. 15; then north along Rt. 15 to its intersection with the Morris-Sussex

County line; then south along the Morris-Sussex County line to the Warren County line; then

southwest along the Morris-Warren County line to the Hunterdon County line; then southeast along

the Morris-Hunterdon County line to the Somerset County line; then south along the Somerset-

Hunterdon County line to its intersection with the Mercer County line; then west and south along

the Hunterdon Mercer County line to its intersection with Rt. 31; then south along Rt. 31 to its intersection

with Rt. 546; then west along Rt. 546 to the Delaware River; then north along the east

bank of the Delaware River to the New York State Line; then east along the New York State Line to

the point of beginning at Lakeside; and in that portion of Salem, Gloucester, Camden, Burlington,

Mercer, Monmouth, Ocean, Atlantic, Cape May and Cumberland counties lying within a continuous

line beginning at the intersection of Rt. 295 and the Delaware River; then east along Rt. 295 to its

intersection with the New Jersey Turnpike; then east along the New Jersey Turnpike to its intersection

with Rt. 40; then east along Rt. 40 to its intersection with Rt. 47; then north along Rt. 47 to its

intersection with Rt. 536; then east along Rt. 536 to its intersection with Rt. 206; then north along

Rt. 206 to its intersection with the New Jersey Turnpike; then northeast along the New Jersey Turnpike

to its intersection with Rt. 571; then southeast along Rt. 571 to its intersection with the Garden

State Parkway; then south along the Garden State Parkway to its intersection with Rt. 9 at Somers

Point; then south along Rt. 9 to its intersection with Rt. 83; then west along Rt. 83 to its intersection

with Rt. 47; then north along Rt. 47 to its intersection with Dennis Creek; then south along the west

bank of Dennis Creek to its intersection with Delaware Bay; then northwest along the east shore of

Delaware Bay and the Delaware River to the point of beginning; persons holding a valid and proper

rifle permit in addition to their current firearm hunting license may hunt for squirrels between the

last Saturday in September and the Friday following the first Monday in November, inclusive; and

between the first Saturday in January and the third Monday in February, inclusive, using a .36 caliber

or smaller muzzleloading rifle loaded with a single projectile.

(f) Except as specifically provided below for waterfowl hunters, semi-wild and commercial preserves,

trappers, woodchuck hunters, raccoon and opossum hunters, muzzleloader deer hunters,

muzzleloader squirrel hunters, and muzzleloader bear hunters, it shall be illegal to use any firearm

of any kind other than a shotgun. Nothing in this subsection shall prohibit the use of a shotgun not

smaller than 20 gauge nor larger than 10 gauge with a rifled bore for deer and black bear hunting

only. Persons hunting black bear shall use a shotgun not smaller than 20 gauge or larger than 10

gauge with lead, lead alloy or copper slug only. Persons hunting deer shall use a shotgun not smaller

than 20 gauge or larger than 10 gauge with the lead, lead alloy or copper slug only; or, a shotgun

not smaller than 20 gauge nor larger than 10 gauge with the buckshot shell. It shall be illegal to

have in possession while deer hunting any firearm missile except the 20, 16, 12 or 10 gauge lead,

lead alloy or copper slug; or, if hunting deer the 12, 10, 16 or 20 gauge buckshot shell. Shotgun

shells containing a single spherical projectile may not be possessed or used in deer or black bear

hunting. (This does not preclude a person legally engaged in hunting on semi-wild or commercial

preserves for the species under license or a person legally engaged in hunting woodcock from being

possessed solely of shotgun(s) and nothing larger than No. 4 fine shot, nor a person engaged in

hunting waterfowl only from being possessed solely of shotgun and nothing larger than T (.200

inch) steel shot or other bismuth non-toxic shot authorized by Federal regulations during the shot54

gun deer seasons). A legally licensed trapper possessing a valid rifle permit may possess and use a

.22 rifle and short rimfire cartridge only while tending his or her trap line. Farmers or their agents

may use shot not larger than No. 4 buckshot to control woodchuck causing damage.

1. Persons who are properly licensed may hunt for deer with a muzzleloader rifle during the six

day firearm deer season and the permit muzzleloader rifle deer season. Persons who are properly

licensed may hunt for black bear with a muzzleloader rifle during a prescribed black bear season.

Muzzleloader rifles used for hunting deer or black bear are restricted to single-shot single barreled

weapons with flintlock or percussion actions, shall not be less than .44 caliber and shall fire a single

missile or projectile. Only one muzzleloader rifle may be possessed while hunting. Double barrel

and other types of muzzleloader rifles capable of firing more than one shot without reloading or

holding more than one charge are prohibited. Persons who are properly licensed may hunt for deer

with a single-shot, single barreled, flintlock or percussion action, smoothbore muzzleloader during

the permit muzzleloader rifle season. Single shot, smoothbore muzzleloaders used during the permit

muzzleloader season shall fire a single missile or projectile and shall not be smaller than 20 gauge

or larger than 10 gauge. Double barrel and other types of smoothbore muzzleloaders capable of firing

more than one shot without reloading or holding more than one charge are prohibited during the

permit muzzleloader season. Persons who are properly licensed may hunt deer with double barrel,

smoothbore muzzleloader during the six day firearm and permit shotgun deer seasons. Smoothbore

muzzleloaders used for deer hunting during the six day firearm and permit shotgun deer seasons

shall not be smaller than 20 gauge or larger than 10 gauge, and shall fire a single missile or projectile,

or buckshot no smaller than No. 4 (.24 inch) or larger than 000 (.36 inch). Only one muzzleloader

rifle or smoothbore muzzleloader may be possessed while deer hunting.

2. Properly licensed persons 10 years of age and older engaged in hunting with a muzzleloader

rifle must have in possession a proper and valid rifle permit. Properly licensed persons 10 years of

age or older, hunting during the muzzleloader rifle permit deer season with a smoothbore muzzleloader,

must also have in possession a proper and valid rifle permit. Rifle permits for 10 to 17 year

olds will be valid for muzzleloader deer hunting, muzzleloader squirrel hunting, muzzleloader

woodchuck hunting and muzzleloader bear hunting.

3. A muzzleloader is considered unloaded when, in the case of a percussion cap rifle or shotgun,

the percussion cap has been removed from the nipple; in the case of a flintlock, when the powder is

removed from the pan and a boot or cover made of a nonmetallic material is placed over the frizzen.

4. Only black powder or black powder equivalents, including Clean Shot, GOEX Clear Shot and

Pyrodex, may be used with a muzzleloading firearm when engaged in hunting any game species

during the prescribed seasons enumerated within the current Game Code. Modern smokeless powder

is strictly prohibited while hunting game with a muzzleloading firearm.

5. Whenever a firearm is in a motor vehicle, in addition to the requirements found in N.J.A.C.

7:25-5.23(f)4 (unloaded), it shall be enclosed in a securely fastened case.

[Justjules 0]

Some idiot politician and and lawyers came up with that mumbo jumbo...WTF?? How the hell can the average person know all that crap??

 

Seriously, Hunting a friggin bear with 1 shot???Are they for real??

[NJDrew1 0]

NJ at it's finest.

[Parker 213]

 

Seriously, Hunting a friggin bear with 1 shot???Are they for real??

Sure, why not? Muzzleloaders can be pretty formidable. .50 & .54 cal. muzzleloaders loaded with 300 gr. or 350 gr. sabots or the .54 with 430 gr. MaxiBall can have retained energies at 100 yds. equal to a .44 Mag. handgun at the muzzle. The .54 can deliver a ton of energy at the muzzle.

[Justjules 0]

Sure, why not? Muzzleloaders can be pretty formidable. .50 & .54 cal. muzzleloaders loaded with 300 gr. or 350 gr. sabots or the .54 with 430 gr. MaxiBall can have retained energies at 100 yds. equal to a .44 Mag. handgun at the muzzle. The .54 can deliver a ton of energy at the muzzle.

 

Im not familiar, Is that enough to take down a bear with one shot? What if you just wound him and piss him off, is it easy to reload and fire again? It just seems a bit silly to only be allowed what amounts to a modern civil war musket, to hunt...Whats their motive behind these silly laws I would actually be embarrassed to have to arrests someone for hunting a badger with the wrong caliber gun..

[Parker 213]

Im not familiar, Is that enough to take down a bear with one shot? What if you just wound him and piss him off, is it easy to reload and fire again? It just seems a bit silly to only be allowed what amounts to a modern civil war musket, to hunt...Whats their motive behind these silly laws I would actually be embarrassed to have to arrests someone for hunting a badger with the wrong caliber gun..

Not silly at all, and perfectly legal, and certainly capable. How do you feel about bear hunting in our neighboring states (PA & NY) with muzzleloader's and/or bow & arrow? Perfectly legal, and challenging. (Ask yourself: How did our forefathers manage with primitive weapons hundreds of years ago? A Civil War musket WAS the weapon of choice and the assault weapon of its day, correct?)

 

And hunters are successful every year with primitive-style weapons based upon harvest summary reports in the two states I referenced. Quite a number of New Jersey hunters used muzzleloader's in last year's bear hunt and some were successful. (Note: NJ still will not allow bow hunting for black bear.) Hopefully before making any arrests you'll avail yourself to the N.J. Game Code to understand what's legal for taking game in New Jersey. http://www.state.nj....code2011-12.pdf

[Dan 177]

It's a fish and game law, the important part is in red below.

 

AFAIK , only applies if you are engaged in hunting activities, or perhaps on hunting grounds, etc.

[Justjules 0]

 

Not silly at all, and perfectly legal, and certainly capable. How do you feel about bear hunting in our neighboring states (PA & NY) with muzzleloader's and/or bow & arrow? Perfectly legal, and challenging. (Ask yourself: How did our forefathers manage with primitive weapons hundreds of years ago? A Civil War musket WAS the weapon of choice and the assault weapon of its day, correct?)

 

And hunters are successful every year with primitive-style weapons based upon harvest summary reports in the two states I referenced. Quite a number of New Jersey hunters used muzzleloader's in last year's bear hunt and some were successful. (Note: NJ still will not allow bow hunting for black bear.) Hopefully before making any arrests you'll avail yourself to the N.J. Game Code to understand what's legal for taking game in New Jersey. http://www.state.nj....code2011-12.pdf

 

I was simply asking if one shot wouls take down a bear. And pointing out the fact that you should be allowed to hunt with you weapon of choice. I thing your interpeting my statement incorrectly.

[Parker 213]

Yes, a single-shot of adequate caliber necessary to break heavy bone and penetrate deeply from any angle is sufficient. ("It's the Indian, not the the arrow.") Some states have minimum requirements for caliber. NJ errs on the safe side with more than adequate choices.

[woodentoe 14]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that concerns about stopping power is not what leads to the restriction to shotgun (rifled slug guns) and muzzleloaders. But, rather, the terminal ballistics and effective maximum range is diminished in both of those while still offering adequate muzzle velocity and power.

 

Densely populated state + unimpeded missed 30-06 round = bad

[ianargent 7]

It's not like NJ is the only place with caliber restrictions on hunting due to concerns about overshooting/overpenetration

[Justjules 0]

It just seemed like NJ is a little over "BEAR" ing with their laws...yuk yuk yuk...

[Parker 213]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that concerns about stopping power is not what leads to the restriction to shotgun (rifled slug guns) and muzzleloaders. But, rather, the terminal ballistics and effective maximum range is diminished in both of those while still offering adequate muzzle velocity and power.

 

Densely populated state + unimpeded missed 30-06 round = bad

 

Yes, that is probably true, but technology and progress has changed a bit. While buckshot and traditional Forster slugs had their limitations when it came to range and accuracy, advances in ammunition (sabot slugs) have extended the range of modern, scoped slug guns and muzzleloaders to be true 200-yard weapons. And, if you have private land to hunt on in NJ, you can hunt woodchucks with a centerfire rifle provided the bullet weight is under 100 grs. Your .22-250 or .243 Winchester with HP's are acceptable yet they easily can transverse into another county if misused. ("Densely populated?" - Sure would make a good case for handgun hunting in New Jersey, wouldn't it?)

 

Illinois is one big wide open state once outside the Chicago area, yet only shotguns and muzzleloaders are legal for big game hunting there, in addition to handguns. NY still has shotgun-only counties for big game hunting, and buckshot is illegal for big game there too. All states are different. Including those with views on Sunday hunting vs. no hunting on Sunday's.