I'm J-Frame (or similar) shopping

[302w 83]

I need a CCW handgun and my pickiness and cheapness has led me towards a S&W 642. I'm wondering if any of you have any advice towards a different J-Frame for any reason at all. My price limit is $400 or so, and I am sticking to S&W even though someone is going to say get a LCR. I want the 642 because I can get one new with S&W's lifetime warranty and the centennial is an interesting design. It seems as if all of the other J-Frames are basically the same as a 36.

 

I kind of want a Model 10 or 64 K frame snub, but I want something that can easily be had. The LEO trade in snub guns are hit or miss for availability. 

[Jon 264]

Do it and you won't regret it. Also, it's worth buying new since they hold their value so well. Finally, order an Apex Tactical trigger($25) and install it before you shoot the gun.

[302w 83]

Are the stock triggers on these things okay? Only because every S&W revolver I have used had a fantastic trigger. No J-Frames though

[Jon 264]

The trigger is okay but REALLY heavy. Like, 13lbs. The Apex kit is well worth the $25 and 15min install.

[GRIZ 3,369]

You're about 20 years late to find a good supply of 2" 10s or 64s.

 

I prefer steel J frame size guns myself as the weight makes tames recoil and speeds recovery time.  You might look at Taurus small frame guns and you can get a steel frame for your price point.I realize for your price range S&W steel frames are out of the question new.    I had an issued stock 640 (DAO) that I used to ding IPSC size steel targets with all day long.

 

That gets me to my next point which is I've never been a fan of swapping out springs in a carry revolver.  When you do so you slow down the cycling of the gun and that 3 or 4 lbs you save in trigger pull may be the difference between the round going off or a light hit. There is a lot less mass in the hammer on a J frame to help that primer go off. I know a lot of people on this forum think a 12 lb trigger pull is impossible to shoot well with but I know different.  The agency i worked for Issued Glock 9mms and thats the only handgun you trained on in school.  However, they had J frame S&Ws in the inventory for issue as BUG/off duty.  A lot of these agents never shot a gun of any type until they got in the academy.  If they wanted a revolver I gave them a day on the range and about 400 rds through one.  These were all stock with about a 12 lb trigger.  When they qualified many maxed the qual course.  If you are willing to learn how to shoot a 12 lb trigger it can be done by anyone,  Too many people lighten triggers not to gain an edge but as a crutch to mask poor technique.  Unless you do something that requires a lot of grabbing you may have to condition the muscles in your fingers and hands.  Using a hand exerciser or squeezing a rubber ball will do it.

 

Smooth is much more important than light in a revolver trigger.  I tried to explain this to one of the gun game guys on this forum but he was not interested in hearing anything.  He was surprised when he found out Miculek uses extra power springs (he couldn't shoot as fast as he does if he didn't.

 

If you want to smooth up a new revolver just lube the internals liberally and dry fire it 500 times.  You may get a blister on your finger if you do this all at once but you will feel it smooth up.  And its free.

[Jon 264]

I hear what you're saying GRIZ, but the Apex kit also smooths up the trigger to the exact same feel as one with 500 rounds through it(per a guy whose opinion I trust that put over 1k through his personal j-frame), and while it reduces the trigger weight, it only drops it to 9lbs. Also, I only load CCI primers and have yet to experience a FTF in 4-500 rounds.

 

ETA: Also, with the Apex kit I can now stage the trigger for longer shots, and I have been able to hit my 8" steel @ 100yds with it.

[iCARRY 0]

Can't wait to get my first revolver. I too will be picking up the 642. The heavy trigger is not going to bother me. As long as it is smooth, it won't be a problem.

[GRIZ 3,369]

I hear what you're saying GRIZ, but the Apex kit also smooths up the trigger to the exact same feel as one with 500 rounds through it(per a guy whose opinion I trust that put over 1k through his personal j-frame), and while it reduces the trigger weight, it only drops it to 9lbs. Also, I only load CCI primers and have yet to experience a FTF in 4-500 rounds.

 

ETA: Also, with the Apex kit I can now stage the trigger for longer shots, and I have been able to hit my 8" steel @ 100yds with it.

You have to remember springs control three things in a revolver. Reliable ignition, reliable functioning, and trigger pull. A stock gun S&W or Ruger is set up for a good balance of all three. If you want to "improve" your revolver you can have two but not all three. For example many feel the trigger pull on a Colt is awesome. Colt achieved that by cutting back on the function reliability. Even in the weakened state brought about by my advanced age I can still outrun the trigger on a stock Python or Detective Special and lock the gun up. Can't do that with a stock S&W Now if you don't think you will be shooting fast in a defensive situation you need to think again. I saw a surveillance tape of shooting that took place in a fast food place about 10 years ago. The LEO shot the bad guy 11 times with his Glock 26 in under 2.5 seconds. He hit the bad guy 9 times and he was dead before he hit the ground. The LEO was not a "gun guy" and rarely shot when he didn't have to.

 

Just something to keep in mind.

[Jon 264]

You have to remember springs control three things in a revolver. Reliable ignition, reliable functioning, and trigger pull. A stock gun S&W or Ruger is set up for a good balance of all three. If you want to "improve" your revolver you can have two but not all three. For example many feel the trigger pull on a Colt is awesome. Colt achieved that by cutting back on the function reliability. Even in the weakened state brought about by my advanced age I can still outrun the trigger on a stock Python or Detective Special and lock the gun up. Can't do that with a stock S&W Now if you don't think you will be shooting fast in a defensive situation you need to think again. I saw a surveillance tape of shooting that took place in a fast food place about 10 years ago. The LEO shot the bad guy 11 times with his Glock 26 in under 2.5 seconds. He hit the bad guy 9 times and he was dead before he hit the ground. The LEO was not a "gun guy" and rarely shot when he didn't have to.

 

Just something to keep in mind.

 

Fair enough. I will need to try more rapid-fire stuff before I can be fully confident with the gun. Doing rapid-fire drills on the clock I've gotten down to 0.24 splits without an issue. I'll certainly update if I find myself outrunning the trigger.

[kman 56]

Alternatively, my Ruger SP-101 trigger is so hard to pull that my wife's friend could not even pull the trigger.  Index finger did not have the strength to pull it back.  Could not fire the gun double action.  Now that is ridiculous.

[remixer 1,645]

I got a couple of J-Frames in stock. take a look at my firearms page.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

I know where there's a stainless 66 snubbie layin' in the sales case.  They're "around" but you have to look hard to find one!

 

As far as trigger jobs, I've had some work done on my IDPA 4" 586 as well as my PPC 6" with bobbed hammer and Williams sights.  Both guns are smooth as butter.  I can outrun the PPC gun even though I have some arthritis.  So Griz makes a good point!  My 586 isn't that LIGHT, just really smooth from the internals being stoned, etc., so it will go bang with any ammo as fast as you pull the trigger.  I'd carry it to guard my life, no problem.

 

Many years ago there was a Pistolero who shot PPC at Old Bridge before I became a member.  Old timers will tell the story of his being able to shoot a 560 x 600 with his snubbie K-frame.  PRACTICE long enough and you get used to what you're shooting....don't matter if it's black powder or the latest plastic fantastic, muscle memory will help!

[302w 83]

Whats a standard double action pull? My 4" 64 has an absolutely fantastic trigger, but it was well used by Australians before I got it. Speaking of Colts... My dad has a Detective Special that I love, but the trigger is awful on the thing.

 

Remixer, thanks for the offer but I have to change my address and apply for permits. Could be three months, could be a year for all I know.

[CommonSense 0]

The 642 is the absolutely best choice in your price range. For reliability and liability purposes, leave it bone stock! Practice to get used to the trigger. I'm not going to give you my resume; but trust me, I know what I'm talking about.