Gas piston upper question

[Sell682 1]

For a gas piston upper will you require a different BCG then one used in blowback systems ?

[Lalo 13]

That is correct. The piston BCG will look almost like a direct impingement BCG with the biggest difference being the gas key. Also, piston uppers might use proprietary components that can only be obtained through the manufacturer so it's not like you can switch parts from rifle to rifle like you do with direct impingement systems.

 

[Sell682 1]

Thanks I guess same is true for charging handle?

[bhunted 887]

Charging handle is the same..... I wouldn't worry too much if you get a high end rifle or use an Adams conversion kit. Everything is the same otherwise. I really love my LWRC M6A2.....

[Shawnmoore81 623]

Adams arms uppers are good quality and they make the kit for other companies. I have a sig 516 and it's a great gun. Only flaw is the weight.

[bhunted 887]

Yea, but the weight is not due to it being piston... piston system is not that weight critical. Good guns like the LWRC, Sig, HK, etc... are just heavy , good quality arms...

[Displaced Texan 11,750]

Weight isn't the issue I have with piston AR's.....it's the proprietary nature of them that concerns me. There is no single 'standard' like in DI AR's, and I find that to be a HUGE drawback.

[Vlad G 345]

Weight isn't the issue I have with piston AR's.....it's the proprietary nature of them that concerns me. There is no single 'standard' like in DI AR's, and I find that to be a HUGE drawback.

 

Thats my problem as well. If manufacturer X leaves that market or abandons the product and you need a spare part you are SOL.

 

It makes no sense to me, seeing how most of the "DI sucks" rhetoric is pretty much nonsense.  Oh wait, your bottom price, made with crappy steel, by untrained chimps AR, shooting wolf, keeps jamming so it must DI's fault, quick go buy a $2000 piston gun to solve the problem. Err .. what if you bought a $1500 DI gun to begin with?

 

Meh. 

[Sell682 1]

I'm not saying one is better then the other not intended this tread to go in that direction. I'm just looking to diversify my portfolio if you know what I mean

[Displaced Texan 11,750]

I'm not saying one is better then the other not intended this tread to go in that direction. I'm just looking to diversify my portfolio if you know what I mean

I get your point.

 

Unless you are shooting prolonged full auto, or suppressed, I see no practical advantage to piston.

[SgtToadette 59]

I get your point.

 

Unless you are shooting prolonged full auto, or suppressed, I see no practical advantage to piston.

Simplified cleaning is a big plus for me. Plus, and this is strictly a personal thing, the idea of spreading gunk all over the operating system gives me the heebie-jeebies. I like the simplicity of the AK platform but the ergos and customizability of the AR, so piston made sense for me.

 

As for aftermarket availability, I can see the point, but it seems to be splitting hairs. Piston guns from reputable companies are fine rifles as are DI guns from reputable companies. There are some things that DI does better (usually in terms of weight and accuracy (usually)) and some things pistons do better (like isolating carbon buildup and increased reliability in adverse environments).

[bhunted 887]

Never realized how much blow back I get in the face with DI nor how really freaken dirty they can get. I get nothing spewed in my face and mine hardly gets dirty after 100s of rounds. Obviously not the only reasons but....

 

 

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Typos courtesy Apple...

[Vlad G 345]

I never personally understood the gas in the face thing, as none of my rifles do it, but hey, I guess its possible, but my understanding is that it is an issue with suppressed guns not normal ones.

 

My primary experience is in competitive circles, where we can't afford the guns to fail either (with lower consequences then social situations, of course). At every level, the only people using piston guns are people getting payed to do so by their sponsors. To me, that is a clue.

 

Also cleaning isn't really an issue, I don't clean my ARs with any degree of regularity and they still work.

[Vlad G 345]

Btw I may be giving the impression that I'm saying DI or nothing. That's not the case, I just think that if you want a piston gun get one designed from the ground up as such. The Adams guys are good people, they support the shooting sports, etc, but I'm not sure of the wisdom of modifying the AR platform this way. They've done it better then most, but maybe if you want a piston gun go with a SCAR or something along those lines.

[Displaced Texan 11,750]

I DO keep my weapons fastidiously clean (I have an excuse, I'm ex Navy, raised by a former USMC Gunny...it was beaten into me at a VERY young age!!!), but the truth is, DI AR's don't NEED to be clean to run.

A prime example is the 'Filthy 14'.

 

I don't think I've ever noticed gas in the face, but I've never shot suppressed AR's, they may spit back, I don't know.

 

My personal belief is that the proprietary nature of piston guns outweigh the small gains of piston, for MY needs. Your mileage may vary.

That being said, whatever it is you prefer, get out and shoot them!!!

[RUTGERS95 890]

Btw I may be giving the impression that I'm saying DI or nothing. That's not the case, I just think that if you want a piston gun get one designed from the ground up as such. The Adams guys are good people, they support the shooting sports, etc, but I'm not sure of the wisdom of modifying the AR platform this way. They've done it better then most, but maybe if you want a piston gun go with a SCAR or something along those lines.

why?  lwrc passed the SEAL OTB test and of all rifles ever tested, only 2 did this. 

[Vlad G 345]

why? lwrc passed the SEAL OTB test and of all rifles ever tested, only 2 did this.

I guess is my personal sense of neatness? You end up stretching a horse into a camel. For example most piston ar platforms still use the stock as part of the recoil system, and a long carrier. This means you can't fold the stock unlike purpose built guns with short carriers and a forward recoil system. That sort of thing irks me. I know why the do it (so you can sell uppers and reuse some aftermarket bits) but it seems like a bit of a waste.

 

Mind you, I don't love the scar design, but I think it is the right direction if you want to abandon DI.

[bhunted 887]

I don't quite get your Scar thing as a gp alternative.

Since I've had my LWRC M6A2, I've nothing but praise for it. It runs clean, no blow back, easy to clean, blah blah blah. The piston system is pure simplicity. I did not buy it because of the piston mind you. There were more factors that added to the pot. The accuracy, one of them is unreal.

I have nothing against DI... I'm on my 3rd AR and they are both DI... I still like them... Especially the one I added the boron bolt carrier to. They are all fine weapons. Piston is just another fine rifle in the AR platform which in this case is my fav....


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[Sell682 1]

Thanks guys for all this insight. I will probably buy a dedicated Adam arms complete upper and give it a try ( saw some for sale with decent pricing). I never experienced the DI gas in the face situation, as I have a DI AR. Based on what you guys are saying the proprietary situation does seem like an issue but that's why I'm going with a named brand ... Hopefully they will be around a while and in most cases if they decide to go under usually another manufacturer comes in and takes over.

 

But if you think if it from the stance of a survival situation it might not be a good situation to be in if your gun breaks down . I'm sure there are a lot more DI guns out there and you have a better chance of finding one and swap out parts. Just some Food for thought.

[bhunted 887]

Maybe the gas in the face is something I experience more indoor shooting. Don't notice much outside. The only time I realize it's happening is when I think about it or get a whiff..

 

As for the breaking down. For the life of me, this should not be a big concern. What makes people think a piston system will break down easily? Unless you are in non stop full auto war, I doubt it will happen.

If you stay with big companies, parts are not an issue. If they seem to be an issue, keep some extra parts around. I don't perceive that to be a problem with the high end platforms like LWRC, Adams or any other similar high quality gun. I think folks over think this too much. If your concern is getting over run by Zombies or having a Red Dawn scenario.. stick to DI.. I'll bring both...

 

If I thought I needed extra parts, the break down would be... Op Rod, $45, Piston Return Spring, $5 and an extra Spring Cup, $20.... total: $70 suggested retail worth of spare parts to keep your $2500 weapon feeling warm and fuzzy in case of emergency... If anything, I may keep an extra spring in case it flies away..

[Vlad G 345]

BTW, I sure as hell hope the LWRC is reliable and accurate at the price, it is more expensive then ultra accurate competition rifles and that is part of my point, for what it costs to get such a rifle I can buy two ultra reliable and accurate DI guns.

 

But, variety is the spice of life.

[bhunted 887]

I did say it was as accurate as hell. Tighter groups than my DI gun... But yes, variety... always. I'm building another AR and it's DI.. so it's not like I hate them.

I'm the kind of guy that wants what nobody else has or wants. That's just me. I like not being a 'me too guy'.... lol.

 

BTW, I sure as hell hope the LWRC is reliable and accurate at the price, it is more expensive then ultra accurate competition rifles and that is part of my point, for what it costs to get such a rifle I can buy two ultra reliable and accurate DI guns.

 

But, variety is the spice of life.

[mipafox 438]

I shoot full auto suppressed and never had gas in the face. Although I have heard complaints about it, I've never met someone. Well, almost - I have an old friend (old as in senior citizen) that said he got a "puff of smoke" in his eye. But with at least 5K full auto suppressed by me, and countless others of friends of mine, never a complaint.

 

If you talk to any of the big carbine course instructors, the best piston guns break far more often than Colt DIs. Obviously, repairs are more difficult and parts never on hand.

 

I kind of understand the suppressed thing since some silencers with some ammo can produce more fouling with DI. But who TF is going to shoot 1000 rounds suppressed without adding lube? Who TF is going to shoot 1000 rounds suppressed in a sitting, period? I don't know how many of you guys have shot M16s with silencers, but they sound like .22 rifles at least. There really isn't much reason to suppress them for 1000 rounds.

 

I also kind of understand the folding stock advantage.

 

The Full Auto thing seems like BS to me. A piston gun isn't going to function any better under FA than a DI gun. The sustained ROF is chamber and barrel, not BCG in any measure.

 

Finally, AR-15 piston guns have a recoil pulse that takes you further off target/more time to get back on target.

 

If you want a piston AR, that's cool as heck. If you need a piston AR, you don't want any AR. Doesn't make sense.

[RUTGERS95 890]

BTW, I sure as hell hope the LWRC is reliable and accurate at the price, it is more expensive then ultra accurate competition rifles and that is part of my point, for what it costs to get such a rifle I can buy two ultra reliable and accurate DI guns.

 

But, variety is the spice of life.

very accurate and the barrels are, imho, the best you can get.  I own 2 (had 3) and all shot moa or better with quality ammo.  My 6.8 was .5 moa with pro hunters. 

 

cleaning is easy, reliability is outstanding, parts components are top notch.  I think it's worth it but mind you, I also have cheap franken beaters too that work just fine.  Buy quality parts, keep them clean and lubed and inspected and you should have no problem.  The problem areas are 90% mags and bolts so if these are good then you will fine most of the time.