specopsscout

For whatever it may add to your consideration, I just sold my well-maintained shooter grade P7M13, for $2500.00. It wasn't for sale long. Cars are meant to be driven, and guns are meant to be shot. If you want to shoot it, shoot it...just bring other guns, gloves, or both, because that frame heats up fast.

I have a Para Ordnance P14.45 LDA Limited. It's a steel framed pistol, and recoils very mildly. In addition to carrying it for a few years, I've also used it for teaching new shooters, due to the ease of recoil control.

We had real trees until a few years ago. We picked up a tree from a local farm. It ended up having a couple of Preying Mantis Egg sacks on it that incubated in warmth of our home, and resulted in a few hundred tiny Mantis running wild around our home...and of course they popped while I was at work, so my Father in Law had to run over to our home and drag the tree, decorations and all, to the curb. We collected what was left unbroken the next morning, and have been rocking a fake tree since. Oh, and good luck finding an inexpensive, but decent quality fake tree, a few days before Christmas...

Well, we never thought the Shockwave would be approved, but here we are...in keeping with that, and my life mantra, of "if you're gonna go hard, go dumb hard", I give you the FosTech origin 12 SBV Firearm...and for a mere $2700.00... Wonder how long we'll need to wait for this to be approved by the State Police... https://www.range365.com/fostech-origin-12-sbv-semi-auto-shotgun-no-tax-stamp-requiredd

I realize this post was meant to kick the beehive, and arrogance aside, was made at least partly tongue in cheek, as I doubt someone who has spent any significant time in this culture could be so naive. With that said... The word is tactics. Operators live and die by them, Gamers do not. It's much easier to be fast and accurate when no one is returning fire, or that cardboard cut out isn't actually a ten year old girl; screaming crying, kicking and flailing in the arms of her stumbling to and fro, moving attacker who simultaneously is threatening the child with the weapon and shooting at you, while also refusing to cross a known open distance of exposure, as a constant rate of speed and direction. Yes, you know your equipment better, because it's nearly the exact same for every single event, repeated over a thousand, or ten thousand practices and matches. For the Operator, equipment is mission dependent, and each can be very different from the next. For the Gamer, the pistol is the primary weapon, even in many three gun matches. In the Operators world, the pistol is second, third or more down the line to more substantial weapons. In the Gamer world, everything must be done now, or as close to now as humanly possible. In the Operator's word, it's much slower and much more controlled. Speed matters, but not at the expense of leaving your back or flanks exposed to an unknown threat. In the Gamer's world, with very few exceptions, it's all on your shoulders, and everything forward is clearly marked as a shoot or no shoot target. In the Operator's world, they are part of a team, and in addition to their own safety, they are responsible for any number of others, which means others who may move into or through their field of fire, repeatedly during an engagement. Their targets are many times dressed exactly like their hostages, and weapons may not be clearly visible, and depending on their positioning may determine their shoot, or no shoot status. Gamers have rules to follow, but they don't begin to approach the litany of rules, regulations, laws and policies the Operator must be in compliance with right at the moment, to engage a target. That said, the word Operator is also being tossed around pretty liberally; to basically apply to anyone who carries a weapon for a living. As someone who's done that for much better then twenty years, I can say with complete certainty that there are many many in uniform who neither operate, nor are Operators. In that vein, I offer the following;

Thanks for the heads up. I shot an email to Tier One yesterday. If I don't hear from them in the next few, I'll reach out to Mr. White and Mr. Hart. Thanks, again.

I'm looking for recommendations for a rifle shop, preferably in NJ, with the skill to rechamber my Terry Cross KMW built Remington 700 SA, 26" MTU Krieger .308 to .300 WSM. The rifle is a true quarter MOA shooter, and I'd like to keep a similar level of performance with the larger round, so I'm looking for skilled and experienced hands.

I have a BAD ASS on both of my AR15s and on my AR10, as well.

The Vortex Viper Red Dot was designed specifically to be mounted on a handgun, has a lifetime warranty, and can be found in several places on line for about two hundred thirty dollars.

Yeah, Shane, unfortunately...I wish it hadn't but...yeah...

If at all possible, try and shoot one before you buy it. I lusted after an AIAW for a few years. I loved the looks and the performance reviews were top end. Good friends who owned them raved about them and so I was sure it would be the perfect choice for my next stick. Right before I ordered mine, I finally got the chance to shoot a friend's. I wanted to love it...I wanted to feel something on a cellular level when I finally got it in hand. I didn't. The craftsmanship was less then I expected. The plastic panels felt cheap in hand, looked worse with casting lines, casting flash and the like, and also aligned poorly on the aluminum frame. The rifle felt narrow and tall, making it feel uncomfortable and less stable, in a variety of shooting positions. Worst of all for me, it had a very distracting tuning fork ring when shooting it. I thought it might just be that one rifle and tried two others with a similar experience. Others love the system. I wanted to, but they just don't do it for me. As in all things, YMMV...

While you may feel that being ill informed as a consumer is acceptable, others may not. Moreover, when you move beyond the parameters of simply being poorly read on a subject, into the realm of confidently dispensing advice based on conjecture, at the best if times, then a more substantial problem exists. To a trained eye regurgitated drivel is obvious and comically inept. The real concern lies in the disinformation that is passed to those less experienced, who have little choice but to believe the information factual. Group thought by those of similar (lack of) skill levels can lead to further reinforcement of incorrect information.

If you don't want it, let me know. I'll buy it.

Sure...You must have an impressive background to have the significant time, resources and direct personal experience on each system, in order to make such a sweeping statement...I only own one of the models specified, a PWS, in addition to some others; Noveske and POF, and have shot one of the others specified briefly; LWRC, so I'm not qualified to make that statement...I'll have to defer to your expertise...

Why buy a Corvette when your Cobalt is fast enough for highway speeds. Your Camaro is nearly as quick, so who needs a Vette...both are cheaper to boot...I see no value in the price tag on a Corvette...I've got this old Lumina that I bet is just as fast... Sure...

I owned a couple of the ArmaLite AR10s(2 AR10Ts, and 1 AR10A4) that were designed to work with modified M14 magazines. The selling point at the time was grandfathered M14 mags for easy conversion, when new construction hi caps were verboten save for Mil/LE. That's no longer the case, and even ArmaLite finally caved and built a receiver to utilize the more standardized original pattern ArmaLite magazines now in use by most manufacturers. It's one or the other, not both. I can tell you that the magazines themselves were more complex, with additional springs and parts not normally found on followers, to try and engage the bolt stop. I don't believe they worked in the M14 pattern with the different follower, either. Magazine reliability was a real issue at the time, too. Some worked, some worked with tinkering, and some simply didn't...ever. Mags that fed didn't always lock the bolt back, and vise versa. In some cases, removing the added springs and pins for the bolt hold catch resulted in a magazine that would at least feed, but not lock open on empty; the lesser of two evils. If you read AR15.com at the time, the main forum for AR10 users back then, it was a constant source of frustration for those of us who owned the rifles, and various attempts to make the mags feed better were constantly being explored... I would strongly recommend you look at a model that takes a traditional AR10 magazine. With the availability, reliability and low cost of LR-20s from Magpul, the idea of buying this rifle for another you may get in the future, in an attempt to have magazine compatibility, just to have the headaches over the mags, is less then ideal. I own a POF P308 now, and fed with the aforementioned LR20s, it is a much nicer platform with many less headaches then any of the ArmaLites I wrestled with in the past... As in all things YMMV, and mine is a sampling of three with about a dozen magazines, and about five years of working with the platform.

Just as an observation...I don't own a Governor/Judge, so no dog in this fight, but... Most truly knowledgeable individuals agree that handgun stopping power is, for want of better definition, inconsistent at the best of times. Report after report has documented humans taking repeated, many times lethal shots with quality ammunition, only to continue to fight until blood loss ultimately shut the machine down... Most experts also seem to agree that the best way to improve the lethality/stopping power of handguns is to fire multiple shots, creating multiple impacts, creating multiple wound channels, to increase the blood loss and systemic failure. I fail to see how a handgun that has the capacity to create four or more solid wound channels(I'm not referring to the lightweight shot loads) with each pull of the trigger is a bad thing. Admittedly, this is at relatively short range, but so are most gun fights, and especially those that use it for home defense making this nearly a moot point. The arguments against the handgun seem to universally compare it to a high capacity semi auto. This argument works to discount any revolver, and has been used to discount them for decades...Many of those arguing so strongly against the .410 revolvers are less vehement when arguing against a more traditional revolver, which seems odd when the issues are similar. Regardless of all the internet chest thumping, reality has shown that very few shooters, and I use that term loosely, are really capable/skilled/talented enough to pull the trigger of their quality semi auto with the speed and accuracy to place four or five shots in a fist sized group at seven yards in under two seconds from the holster. Someone using one of these handguns can, since they aim and shoot one time. Ammunition seems to be a big point of contention. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that loads designed for an eighteen plus inch barrel are going to perform poorly out of a two inch barrel. That no longer seems to be an issue as ammunition companies have invested in the design. So, this argument too, is dated at best, and moot at this point as better designs have come on line and continue to develop... Shoot what you like, own what you like. As an example, I see a lot of folks who build frankenguns, many times out of the least expensive parts they can find, or a mingling of good and bad, regularly recommend these guns as the penultimate tactical whatever...fewer still correct them on the true quality of their hobby guns, but damn if many of the same, won't join the dog pile one someone with a .410 handgun, since it's "not practical"... Sure...

I hadn't watched the video linked by Newtonian prior to posting about the BOT#53. I have to say that the video he linked was very informative. It was, in my opinion, a fairly balanced and honest look at the handgun type. Thanks for posting it.

Since I can't seem to add links to this thread via the system...If you have an interest in the Box of Truth , check out #53. It's a more current review of the Judge and .410 ammo.

Be careful with the Simple Green. It's reported to iodize anodized aluminum parts.

To echo what others have said, take a prep course...invest in yourself...

That is a ballistic steel plate issue, not ceramic.

Crawl...walk...run... Safe gun handling in a tactical environment should be the main priority in an entry level course.

I'm not someone who breaks the law. I've been on the job as a C.O. for better then twenty years, and have another fourteen years split between the Marine Corps and US Army, reserve and active. I say this to reinforce that I understand rules and laws, and I follow them. Having never lived for long periods in a free state, I have sheepishly accepted the common doctrine that a shotgun must have a barrel with a minimum length of 18" and all of my scatter guns have had barrels of that length or longer. My only shotgun at the moment has a 36" barrel on it, but it's a family heirloom and not one I routinely fire for more then nostalgia. With that said, wouldn't the emboldened area be the exception for the rule you just quoted? i realize we are splitting hairs, but the majority of this hypothetical discussion is splitting hairs of the law and running amok in the grey area. As to the abusive recoil mentioned earlier, it's actually not nearly as bad, as you might think. I fired a fair number of rounds through a pistol gripped shotgun over the years, and while the 3" magnums will certainly get your attention(my hand hurt all day after rapid firing six), the 2 3/4" standards are fine; the reduced recoil loads even more so. As a matter of fact, the very first weapon I purchased at eighteen years old, was a Mossberg Model 500 Persuader in 12 gauge. It came with a pistol grip from the factory, six shot tube and cylinder bore 18" barrel. I won't get into the practicality side of the debate. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and there are many things in life that broach the subject...Do I really need a motorcycle that can run two hundred miles an hour? Do I really need to have a supercharger on my Mustang? Wasn't the original 300 horses more then enough...as a matter of fact, why would anyone need a car with that much horsepower, when sixty horsepower cars are working just fine...Do I really need to carry a firearm everywhere I go...and so on and so forth... From a practical standpoint, it still carries six rounds of extremely potent anti personnel ammunition in a fairly compact package. With practice it can be very effective at short range, and it's compact size allows it to be deployed in confined spaces where larger weapons can be more difficult to maneuver. I have shot pistol gripped shotguns effectively beyond fifteen yards in tactical runs, and just for fun have shot skeet with one. It was fun and I hit more then I missed...