Taser Guns?

[MSaxatilus 1]

I assume they are illegal to carry, but can you own one in your home or business?

 

Anybody point me in the right direction on taser rules?

 

Thanks,

MSax

[67gtonut 847]

I believe totally illegal in NJ

[coldsolderjoint 84]

New Jersey

 

 

Prohibited

 

2C:39-1 Weapon = Stun gun, emits an electrical charge or current intended to temporarily or permanently disable a person

 

 

[MSaxatilus 1]

Oh good grief......... I should have figured as much.

 

What the F?!?!?

 

MSax

[robot_hell 72]

Mace is illegal too... recommend carrying around a sample size Frank's Red Hot.

 

[kenw 293]

Mace is illegal too... recommend carrying around a sample size Frank's Red Hot.

 

You could put an eye out with one of those.

[nott 0]

Mace is illegal too... recommend carrying around a sample size Frank's Red Hot.

 

 

Nothing in N.J.S.2C:39-5 shall be construed to prevent any person who is 18 years of age or older and who has not been convicted of a felony, from possession for the purpose of personal self-defense of one pocket-sized device which contains and releases not more than three-quarters of an ounce of chemical substance not ordinarily capable of lethal use or of inflicting serious bodily injury, but rather, is intended to produce temporary physical discomfort or disability through being vaporized or otherwise dispensed in the air.

 

2C:39-6i

[DevsAdvocate 112]

Mace is illegal too... recommend carrying around a sample size Frank's Red Hot.

 

 

Nothing in N.J.S.2C:39-5 shall be construed to prevent any person who is 18 years of age or older and who has not been convicted of a felony, from possession for the purpose of personal self-defense of one pocket-sized device which contains and releases not more than three-quarters of an ounce of chemical substance not ordinarily capable of lethal use or of inflicting serious bodily injury, but rather, is intended to produce temporary physical discomfort or disability through being vaporized or otherwise dispensed in the air.

 

2C:39-6i

 

Great, so when confronted by a 220 lb ex-con, one can spice up his dinner before he spices up ones' life.

[nott 0]

Yes. It's laughable. I am, however, merely pointing out that it is not illegal.

[KpdPipes 388]

Mace is illegal too... recommend carrying around a sample size Frank's Red Hot.

 

 

Nothing in N.J.S.2C:39-5 shall be construed to prevent any person who is 18 years of age or older and who has not been convicted of a felony, from possession for the purpose of personal self-defense of one pocket-sized device which contains and releases not more than three-quarters of an ounce of chemical substance not ordinarily capable of lethal use or of inflicting serious bodily injury, but rather, is intended to produce temporary physical discomfort or disability through being vaporized or otherwise dispensed in the air.

 

2C:39-6i

 

Great, so when confronted by a 220 lb ex-con, one can spice up his dinner before he spices up ones' life.

 

Ever Try it??? I've used it on a BUNCH of 300-lb ex-cons, and 90% of them go right down..Pepper Spray is better than nothing, and is a LOT more effective than you are giving it credit for.. And for the record, TASER is prohibited for EVERYONE..even though Milgram sent out a notice stating guidelines (which were so utterly ridiculous that you'd never actually SEE one on the street) they never changed the wording in 2C to allow them.

[GoNRA 12]

Ever Try it??? I've used it on a BUNCH of 300-lb ex-cons, and 90% of them go right down..Pepper Spray is better than nothing, and is a LOT more effective than you are giving it credit for.. And for the record, TASER is prohibited for EVERYONE..even though Milgram sent out a notice stating guidelines (which were so utterly ridiculous that you'd never actually SEE one on the street) they never changed the wording in 2C to allow them.

 

pepper spray gives you a little time to run away. I think Police should be allowed to carry Tasers, which I'm sure they can talk to their union reps if they really wanted to, but they are probably fearing the lawsuits. If you tase someone and they hit their head and die, or get injured severly, they can be sued.

 

NJ is such a sue friendly state, people are suing the rights out of it. NJ has NANNY state in the near future if things aren't turned around.

[djg0770 481]

NJ has NANNY state in the near future if things aren't turned around.

 

The future is here Go.

[Karatenurse 11]

already stated...

 

disregard.

[KpdPipes 388]

Ever Try it??? I've used it on a BUNCH of 300-lb ex-cons, and 90% of them go right down..Pepper Spray is better than nothing, and is a LOT more effective than you are giving it credit for.. And for the record, TASER is prohibited for EVERYONE..even though Milgram sent out a notice stating guidelines (which were so utterly ridiculous that you'd never actually SEE one on the street) they never changed the wording in 2C to allow them.

 

pepper spray gives you a little time to run away. I think Police should be allowed to carry Tasers, which I'm sure they can talk to their union reps if they really wanted to, but they are probably fearing the lawsuits. If you tase someone and they hit their head and die, or get injured severly, they can be sued.

 

NJ is such a sue friendly state, people are suing the rights out of it. NJ has NANNY state in the near future if things aren't turned around.

 

No, it does not. if you are one of the 90% of the population that is affected by OC, you dont go ANYWHERE. For the record i've had ONE guy not affected by it, and he was high on PCP, it took a dozen of us to finally get him immobilized and down. There has been legislation pending since 2007 or so to change the law to allow TASER for LE purposes and thus far it's gone nowhere. The Union cant do a damn thin when they device itself is prohibited. We have been asking for TASER for years. According to the Memo that Milgram issued that discussed HOW Tasers would be employed, the number of AUTHORIZED Persons per Department (as a whole, not per shift) deopended on the population. IIRC it was 1 per 20,000 residents, had to be a supervisor, and there were STRICT restrictions on the circumstances. IOW, if the taser guy sint working or off sick/vacation, there Is NO taser. Here's an other little tidbit. Until 2006 ANYTHING fired from a Firearm, was considered Deadly Force under the Statute, including Less-Lethal Munitions such as Beanbag, sock, Rubber and Wood baton rounds. Therefore you COULD NOT BY LAW use those types of devices except in a situation where Deadly Force woudl otherwise be Required. They actually changed the wording of the statute to allow Less Lethals to no longer be considered deadly force FOUR years ago...and we have YET to have an AG Guideline, or even a Update in the existing Use of Force Guideline that reflects that, nevermind What teypes of rounds are authorized and under what circumstances. I can think of at least six or seven instances where the use of a Beanbag, Rubber Buck, or baton round might have been used instead of killing some poor schmoe who was armed and off his meds/just-plain-psycho. As it is now, if the legislature changed the law tomorrow on taser, unless you are in Jersey City, newark, Irvington, or one of the LARGE towns, you will NEVER see a taser in use unless the planets align perfectly, but you WILL see people getting Shot because NO OTHER RECOURSE is available.

[Fishpaw 17]

Oh good grief......... I should have figured as much.

 

What the F?!?!?

 

MSax

 

 

Are you really that surprised that its illegal in NJ..

[coldsolderjoint 84]

Ever Try it??? I've used it on a BUNCH of 300-lb ex-cons, and 90% of them go right down..Pepper Spray is better than nothing, and is a LOT more effective than you are giving it credit for.. And for the record, TASER is prohibited for EVERYONE..even though Milgram sent out a notice stating guidelines (which were so utterly ridiculous that you'd never actually SEE one on the street) they never changed the wording in 2C to allow them.

 

pepper spray gives you a little time to run away. I think Police should be allowed to carry Tasers, which I'm sure they can talk to their union reps if they really wanted to, but they are probably fearing the lawsuits. If you tase someone and they hit their head and die, or get injured severly, they can be sued.

 

NJ is such a sue friendly state, people are suing the rights out of it. NJ has NANNY state in the near future if things aren't turned around.

 

No, it does not. if you are one of the 90% of the population that is affected by OC, you dont go ANYWHERE. For the record i've had ONE guy not affected by it, and he was high on PCP, it took a dozen of us to finally get him immobilized and down. There has been legislation pending since 2007 or so to change the law to allow TASER for LE purposes and thus far it's gone nowhere. The Union cant do a damn thin when they device itself is prohibited. We have been asking for TASER for years. According to the Memo that Milgram issued that discussed HOW Tasers would be employed, the number of AUTHORIZED Persons per Department (as a whole, not per shift) deopended on the population. IIRC it was 1 per 20,000 residents, had to be a supervisor, and there were STRICT restrictions on the circumstances. IOW, if the taser guy sint working or off sick/vacation, there Is NO taser. Here's an other little tidbit. Until 2006 ANYTHING fired from a Firearm, was considered Deadly Force under the Statute, including Less-Lethal Munitions such as Beanbag, sock, Rubber and Wood baton rounds. Therefore you COULD NOT BY LAW use those types of devices except in a situation where Deadly Force woudl otherwise be Required. They actually changed the wording of the statute to allow Less Lethals to no longer be considered deadly force FOUR years ago...and we have YET to have an AG Guideline, or even a Update in the existing Use of Force Guideline that reflects that, nevermind What teypes of rounds are authorized and under what circumstances. I can think of at least six or seven instances where the use of a Beanbag, Rubber Buck, or baton round might have been used instead of killing some poor schmoe who was armed and off his meds/just-plain-psycho. As it is now, if the legislature changed the law tomorrow on taser, unless you are in Jersey City, newark, Irvington, or one of the LARGE towns, you will NEVER see a taser in use unless the planets align perfectly, but you WILL see people getting Shot because NO OTHER RECOURSE is available.

 

that sounds like a good plan.. crazy guy is going nuts and you have to wait for the supervisor to come from the other side of town to zap the guy...

 

I took a CEU class on how to treat injuries caused by less-than-lethal weapons and it's pretty much straight forward and not much different than standard EMT training except for the fact that you can remove the tazer prongs under most circumstances.

 

They did put in the statistics on how they COULD be deadly if implemented in the wrong manner, but the benefits far outweigh the risks.

 

And I'm pretty sure bullets are usually more deadly.

[KpdPipes 388]

Cold, Dont get me started. We fought like hell to get the Less Lethal stuff changed after the 2004 Convention. While we didnt have the anticipated problems we were training for, our lack of effective LL really came home once we started working with NYPD and MPDC's Civil Disturbance folks, and looking at their Operational plans for when thigns go REALLY bad, and we had pretty much NONE of the options that they could choose from. We get the law changed, then we have the "Dance of a thousand AG's" under Corzine With Ann in the end PROMISING that she would fast-track a Less Lethal Guideline after a couple more preventable shootings...which never happened. THEN she issues that half-assed memo about taser (HOW she could authorize a prohibited device im still trying to figure out, AG or not) and the completely unrealistic circumstances. I could ALMOST see it if it was One taser PER SHIFT, and unlimited operators, (much like the Alcotest machine..we dont each get our own) but it was ONE certified operator per Department for 20K people, unless they were also SWAT, or unless the population was over IIRC 100K. Even then there were So many restrictions 90% of municiplaities wouldnt have wanted the risk of liability and never allowed it. So, looking at My department.. 3 shifts 4 on, 2 0ff. therefore, out of 21 possible shifts in a week, you would have the taser guy for..FIVE. What happens if he lives out of Town, or gets injured, or Sick?? now you're SOL. It was a pathetic attempt to placate us into supporting Corzine, which although the STATE PBA did publicly, the majority of the membership were against.not that we were "For Christie" Most of us believed we should have stayed OUT of the politics altogether... but thats another thread. In the end, we still have no clear policies for Less Lethal other than OC, and NO Tasers on the street.

[NJgunowner86 0]

I'm sorry but after seeing many of the abuses of Tasers in the news and such, I'd rather the police not have Tasers and am glad the state agrees....batons, OC a handgun on the belt and long gun in the cruiser, four weapons are enough, they really don't need a fifth IMO. That's four weapons more than anyone else here is allowed to carry.

 

I know guys like you kd are good cops and understand things, but a lot are not. There are guys my age who become cops and are straight up bullies. They think the taser is a "be-good" button and use it on things as little as someone talking back, next thing you know a guy falls over and cracks his head, dead, all because he was just acting like a jerk. There's videos of that crap all over the net.

 

Unless someone has a severe reaction or something (is that even possible?) OC does not kill anyone. A gun the officer is aware what they are doing is lethal. And the baton, they have to swing it and smack someone, another indicator that they are using force. The taser is just a little recoil free button that many think is just an attitude adjuster, it is too easy to deploy, too easy to misuse, and too likely to kill someone to be justified in using in a situation IMO.

[coldsolderjoint 84]

I'm sorry but after seeing many of the abuses of Tasers in the news and such, I'd rather the police not have Tasers and am glad the state agrees....batons, OC a handgun on the belt and long gun in the cruiser, four weapons are enough, they really don't need a fifth IMO. That's four weapons more than anyone else here is allowed to carry.

 

I know guys like you kd are good cops and understand things, but a lot are not. There are guys my age who become cops and are straight up bullies. They think the taser is a "be-good" button and use it on things as little as someone talking back, next thing you know a guy falls over and cracks his head, dead, all because he was just acting like a jerk. There's videos of that crap all over the net.

 

Unless someone has a severe reaction or something (is that even possible?) OC does not kill anyone. A gun the officer is aware what they are doing is lethal. And the baton, they have to swing it and smack someone, another indicator that they are using force. The taser is just a little recoil free button that many think is just an attitude adjuster, it is too easy to deploy, too easy to misuse, and too likely to kill someone to be justified in using in a situation IMO.

 

The OC "Can" exacerbate existing conditions (ashtma, etc) or the rare allergic reaction, but from what I've read those instances are relatively rare and if proper medical treatment is called to the scene, chances are the patient would be OK.

 

I have to take issue with your stance on treating the cops like bad guys before they do anything wrong though NJGunner. You only see the bad instances on youtube. I don't have the numbers myself.. but how many "successful" tazings take place every day, month, year?

 

Ever deal with a schizophrenic, or a guy on meth, or a depressed suicidal? There are plenty of instances where a tazer would offer LEO's an alternative to deadly force. A pysch patient needs a med adjustment, goes nuts, and you recommend solving the problem with bullets or bashing his skull in? Come on...

 

The rest of the country's LEO's have tazers and it can't be all bad. We must be doing something wrong here in NJ. Just like No CCW, Pistol Permits, FPID's, etc.. thats not good, but No Tazer's is good?

[KpdPipes 388]

I'm sorry but after seeing many of the abuses of Tasers in the news and such, I'd rather the police not have Tasers and am glad the state agrees....batons, OC a handgun on the belt and long gun in the cruiser, four weapons are enough, they really don't need a fifth IMO. That's four weapons more than anyone else here is allowed to carry.

 

I know guys like you kd are good cops and understand things, but a lot are not. There are guys my age who become cops and are straight up bullies. They think the taser is a "be-good" button and use it on things as little as someone talking back, next thing you know a guy falls over and cracks his head, dead, all because he was just acting like a jerk. There's videos of that crap all over the net.

 

Unless someone has a severe reaction or something (is that even possible?) OC does not kill anyone. A gun the officer is aware what they are doing is lethal. And the baton, they have to swing it and smack someone, another indicator that they are using force. The taser is just a little recoil free button that many think is just an attitude adjuster, it is too easy to deploy, too easy to misuse, and too likely to kill someone to be justified in using in a situation IMO.

 

Sorry but BULLSNOT. #1, yes there have been abuses..THOSE have come about from Policies which REQUIRE the TAser to be uses before ANY Physical Contact. THAT is a Policy Failure, not a Device Issue. Second..take a look at the VERY Few Deaths involved, when you look at the HUGE number of times the devices are used..Sorry THAT dog Dont Hunt...EVERY Taser death has some other underlying issue as the reason for the death, whether it;s Drug use, Congenital Defect, or just over-exertion from Fighting/running. It's amazing that in teh THOUSANDS of uses ON POLICE OFFICERS and MILITARY in training, and Demonstrations, there hasnt been ONE SINGLE DEATH. I DONT EVER want to see a post from you mentioning "Police Brutality" when you see someone looking like Beetle Baily because he had to be beaten to a Pulp to get him under control. As far as OC not killing anyone..again..Bullshit it happens, in fact there was one this weekend....just like ANY Device, there are going to be people who have elevated reactions to it. Simple FACT is there are probably tens of thousands of people who are ALIVE today because the plice had the option of using Taser instead of shooting them..and a round DOZEN in NJ wha are DEAD because we didnt have that option.

[DevsAdvocate 112]

I think all people should have access to Taser guns, just like we should all have access to fully automatic weapons. Fair is fair.

[KpdPipes 388]

I think all people should have access to Taser guns, just like we should all have access to fully automatic weapons. Fair is fair.

 

Works for me..

[NJgunowner86 0]

I'm sorry but after seeing many of the abuses of Tasers in the news and such, I'd rather the police not have Tasers and am glad the state agrees....batons, OC a handgun on the belt and long gun in the cruiser, four weapons are enough, they really don't need a fifth IMO. That's four weapons more than anyone else here is allowed to carry.

 

I know guys like you kd are good cops and understand things, but a lot are not. There are guys my age who become cops and are straight up bullies. They think the taser is a "be-good" button and use it on things as little as someone talking back, next thing you know a guy falls over and cracks his head, dead, all because he was just acting like a jerk. There's videos of that crap all over the net.

 

Unless someone has a severe reaction or something (is that even possible?) OC does not kill anyone. A gun the officer is aware what they are doing is lethal. And the baton, they have to swing it and smack someone, another indicator that they are using force. The taser is just a little recoil free button that many think is just an attitude adjuster, it is too easy to deploy, too easy to misuse, and too likely to kill someone to be justified in using in a situation IMO.

 

Sorry but BULLSNOT. #1, yes there have been abuses..THOSE have come about from Policies which REQUIRE the TAser to be uses before ANY Physical Contact. THAT is a Policy Failure, not a Device Issue. Second..take a look at the VERY Few Deaths involved, when you look at the HUGE number of times the devices are used..Sorry THAT dog Dont Hunt...EVERY Taser death has some other underlying issue as the reason for the death, whether it;s Drug use, Congenital Defect, or just over-exertion from Fighting/running. It's amazing that in teh THOUSANDS of uses ON POLICE OFFICERS and MILITARY in training, and Demonstrations, there hasnt been ONE SINGLE DEATH. I DONT EVER want to see a post from you mentioning "Police Brutality" when you see someone looking like Beetle Baily because he had to be beaten to a Pulp to get him under control. As far as OC not killing anyone..again..bs it happens, in fact there was one this weekend....just like ANY Device, there are going to be people who have elevated reactions to it. Simple FACT is there are probably tens of thousands of people who are ALIVE today because the plice had the option of using Taser instead of shooting them..and a round DOZEN in NJ wha are DEAD because we didnt have that option.

 

I feel cops have plenty of weapons to get suspects under control already. I'm sorry, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

I have to take issue with your stance on treating the cops like bad guys before they do anything wrong though NJGunner. You only see the bad instances on youtube. I don't have the numbers myself.. but how many "successful" tazings take place every day, month, year?

 

It's not that I'm treating cops as bad guys before they do anything wrong. Half the bill of rights limits police powers, does that mean the founders treated cops like bad guys? No. There's plenty of good cops out there, but also plenty of jerks as well. Law enforcement should be respected for the tough work they do and the purpose they serve, but there's also nothing wrong with being cautious as well about abuse of power. I don't think any good officer out there would abuse their power.

 

I'm sure plenty of successful tasings take place every year, but plenty of abuses do too. I know there's plenty of psycho's out there and the cops go through a lot to deal with that. But regardless, I believe in limited power, I am happy with the state's decision not to issue tasers to law enforcement, and think we should just agree to disagree. Sorry.

 

I feel that I should also add that a relative of mine was an NJ state trooper, killed in the line of duty. I am no cop hater, I simply favor restrictions on power.

[GoNRA 12]

Guess there could be abuses.

 

 

 

Mishaps

 

 

but then again

[jeff47 30]

Abuse is abuse, whether with a Taser, beating them with a nightstick or shooting someone without cause. Especially with the explosion of camera's (whether passerby's, the dashboard cam, or even the personal camera's that they're testing on police on the west coast) if you abuse someone with anything, you are more and more likely to be prosecuted for it.

 

It's a changing world, the more tools you have the better. I have a hammer, it doesn't mean I don't buy other tools if they're going to work better for a job than the hammer. DNA evidence can be abused, I don't see a reason to stop using it.

 

My Buddy's father, when he was in the police academy received training on how to properly shoot at a moving vehicle from another moving vehicle while giving chase. (This was probably only 40 years ago) With the number of people around that's probably a good policy change to what we have today.

 

I'd certainly rather be Tasered (or see one of my family tasered) over being hit by a car or shot in the chest.

 

Oh, and I totally think that 17 yr old dumbass that got Tasered on the field the other night deserved it. Even after his father told him running onto the field was a bad idea, just goes to show that sometimes your parents do know better, but that's a different thread.

[KpdPipes 388]

I've been sprayed dozens of times..both in training and in the field..We used to use "Fogger" style cans... :shifty: AND i have been tased. ILL TAKE THE TASER ANY DAY. While it is on, you are Immobilized, it's not "Pain" per se, it's impossible to describe. however, once it's cycled.it's OVER. Which is how it's designed. the way it is SUPPOSED to work is you use the taser if someone is combative. ie tell them they are Under Arrest, and they push ayway or start fighting. Now, We OC them..which entails Decontamination, and an Ambulance call (Billed to YOU the taxpayer) to have him medically cleared, nevermind the attendant Decontamination of him, us, and anything else exposed, not to mention that they cans till struggle a lot when OC'd just because they are panicing from being blind and having a 40 lb snot bubble. As opposed to backing off, "Sit stop resisting or I will taser you" he complies?? hook him up GTG, he keeps Fighting, or give the old "Eff You MFing Pigs" line. Zap, and cuffed before he knows what happened. The statistics show that in places where the tasers are used there is a HUGE Decreas in A: Use of Force Complaints/Lawsuits B: Injuries to Arrestees, and C: Injuries to officers.

 

Oh and for the Record NJGO, I can name at least 9 Municipalities in my county and 2 county agencies that DO NOT HAVE long Guns of ANY sort available to patrolmen on the street at any given time, not even Shotguns. The Town where I live doesnt have long Guns in the parrol cars, nor do the Munies on either side of them. patrol Rifles are the Exception here in NJ, not the Norm...until, as always somebody gets killed because they DIDNT have the necessary tools.

[Guest]

I've been sprayed dozens of times..both in training and in the field..We used to use "Fogger" style cans... :shifty: AND i have been tased. ILL TAKE THE TASER ANY DAY. While it is on, you are Immobilized, it's not "Pain" per se, it's impossible to describe. however, once it's cycled.it's OVER. Which is how it's designed. the way it is SUPPOSED to work is you use the taser if someone is combative. ie tell them they are Under Arrest, and they push ayway or start fighting. Now, We OC them..which entails Decontamination, and an Ambulance call (Billed to YOU the taxpayer) to have him medically cleared, nevermind the attendant Decontamination of him, us, and anything else exposed, not to mention that they cans till struggle a lot when OC'd just because they are panicing from being blind and having a 40 lb snot bubble. As opposed to backing off, "Sit stop resisting or I will taser you" he complies?? hook him up GTG, he keeps Fighting, or give the old "Eff You MFing Pigs" line. Zap, and cuffed before he knows what happened. The statistics show that in places where the tasers are used there is a HUGE Decreas in A: Use of Force Complaints/Lawsuits B: Injuries to Arrestees, and C: Injuries to officers.

 

Oh and for the Record NJGO, I can name at least 9 Municipalities in my county and 2 county agencies that DO NOT HAVE long Guns of ANY sort available to patrolmen on the street at any given time, not even Shotguns. The Town where I live doesnt have long Guns in the parrol cars, nor do the Munies on either side of them. patrol Rifles are the Exception here in NJ, not the Norm...until, as always somebody gets killed because they DIDNT have the necessary tools.

 

 

i would agree that i would take tazing over pepper spray ANY day.. its like as it goes along it just hurts more and more.. and you literally have to drench your face with gallons of water to get it to stop.. spray sucks..

[bulpup 98]

I feel cops have plenty of weapons to get suspects under control already. I'm sorry, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

 

Enter the case of Elanor Bumpers, killed with a shotgun because police had no less than lethal devices.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eleanor_Bumpurs