Ransom Rest Question

[nj22 2]

I'm sure this is a dumb question.

 

I'm trying to buy my first 9mm. Of course, the first step is testing everything I can get my hands on. And I know that "the gun that fits best" will be the most accurate for me. But this seems a bit...suspect. If a particular gun cannot mechanically get a tight group at 25 yards than no matter how good I get at shooting it, or how well it "fits," I'll never be able to get a tight group at 25 yards. If I were looking for a carry or home defense gun 25 yard accuracy would be low on the list of needs (after lightweight or reliability or whatever). But this is going to be a target gun.

 

So the question: hasn't someone out there put a bunch of 9's through ransom rest tests? Like 25 of each model, CZ vs Beretta vs HK vs S&W, with a bunch of different ammo? Obviously each individual firearm is going to vary within a given model. But you'd think some gun shop could have done this with a large number of each, no? It would be nice limit my choices down to target accurate models before selecting which fits my hand best.

[Malsua 1,422]

I'm sure this is a dumb question.

 

I'm trying to buy my first 9mm. Of course, the first step is testing everything I can get my hands on. And I know that "the gun that fits best" will be the most accurate for me. But this seems a bit...suspect. If a particular gun cannot mechanically get a tight group at 25 yards than no matter how good I get at shooting it, or how well it "fits," I'll never be able to get a tight group at 25 yards. If I were looking for a carry or home defense gun 25 yard accuracy would be low on the list of needs (after lightweight or reliability or whatever). But this is going to be a target gun.

 

So the question: hasn't someone out there put a bunch of 9's through ransom rest tests? Like 25 of each model, CZ vs Beretta vs HK vs S&W, with a bunch of different ammo? Obviously each individual firearm is going to vary within a given model. But you'd think some gun shop could have done this with a large number of each, no? It would be nice limit my choices down to target accurate models before selecting which fits my hand best.

 

If you put the models you listed in a vise and shot them, they're going to be just about hole in hole, round after round at ranges up to 25 yards. There is very little inherent accuracy difference in any decent branded modern pistol. It will vary ammo to ammo slightly. A CZ may shoot Winchester better and an HK may shoot Federal better. The difference in all those things is minor compared to the skill of the shooter.

[nj22 2]

That doesn't sound right to me. I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that even ammo selection can change the pattern from a rest at 25 yards.

[HKHockey 5]

I think that is what Malusa was getting at actually. That most any modern pistol will shoot a ragged hole with ammo suitably paired to the barrel.

[Malsua 1,422]

That doesn't sound right to me. I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that even ammo selection can change the pattern from a rest at 25 yards.

 

Yes, ammo will change the pattern, one ammo to the next. Some may bias high, others bias left, down, right, upper right, whatever, but within that particular ammo, it will be consistent as to where the bias is. The deviation with ammo from brand to brand is point of aim to point of impact.

[nj22 2]

That's interesting. I guess I had assumed reading reviews that guns in rests were giving like 4 inch groups. But maybe shooters, not the guns, were getting those groups.

 

Yes, ammo will change the pattern, one ammo to the next. Some may bias high, others bias left, down, right, upper right, whatever, but within that particular ammo, it will be consistent as to where the bias is. The deviation with ammo from brand to brand is point of aim to point of impact.

[Anselmo 87]

Hickok45 and Malusa make sense to me.

 

[willsj 1]

I can tell you from experience (I own a Ransom Rest) different ammo will produce much different results. If it's not match grade ammo it won't be a ragged hole at 25 yards, it will be much worse (most of the time)! Also, the difference in match ammo is different depending on the gun. The purpose of a Ransom Rest is to determine which ammo shoots best in your gun. And, believe me, it varies dramatically!

[raz-0 1,259]

Let's put it this way. You'll shoot worse than the gun. If you put in the time to be insanely accurate, you already know who will build you a gun with guaranteed accuracy above and beyond a production pistol.

 

Note, it won't be a run of the mill custom pistol. Unless you are prepared to drop some serious cash on a pistol, you will spend a LOT more on the ammo to practice getting good. If you are shopping in the over $4k range, the odds of you spending half on the gun and half on ammo to get decent is pretty low unless you are some kind of phenom. You can get pretty good guns under $800k that will take you pretty far.

[GRIZ 3,369]

Please Maks, patterns for shotguns, groups with rifled firearms.

 

nj22, all the responses you have received are basically correct. Ammo will change the group size as different guns even within the same make and model will like different loads. Some 9mms seem more accurate than others. I have seen fired or fired literally a couple of thousand 9mm pistols in my time and have seen exactly one that wouldn't shoot a decent group due to what suspected was a bad barrel. Your odds of getting an inaccurate pistol from the factory are extremely low.

 

Buy a 9mm with features you like and take it from there trying different types of ammo for accuracy when you can shoot a decent group.

[Old School 611]

Though shooting off of sand bags is not as good as a Ransome Rest it can help access accuracy potential of a handgun.

 

Accuracy of all handguns is not created equal. With a given ammo my G34 shoots about 4-5 inches at 25 yds. If I pop in a KKM barrel I'm down to 2". Hence, different manufacturers fit some pistols better than others and the result is better accuracy