Twpbaseball10 0 Posted July 6, 2012 When pinning and welding a brake does the hole have to be on the top where more visible or can it be on the bottom? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Turbotezza 1 Posted July 6, 2012 It doesn't matter. When pinning and welding a stock does the hole have to be on the top where more visible or can it be on the bottom? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Clintoon Eastwood 2 Posted July 6, 2012 Welding a stock? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Turbotezza 1 Posted July 6, 2012 He may have an aluminum one from somewhere. Unlikely, but not entirely impossible. Welding a stock? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jon 264 Posted July 6, 2012 Title says brake hole placement; I'm thinking typo in the OP. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Twpbaseball10 0 Posted July 6, 2012 sorry it was a typo. Just fixed it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
checko 180 Posted July 6, 2012 Doesn't matter where I believe, as long as its permanent. But I'd put mine underneath. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krdshrk 3,877 Posted July 6, 2012 All mine are underneath Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alowerlevel 77 Posted July 6, 2012 All mine are underneath x2, but it doesnt matter where it is, as long as its permanently attatched Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Holeshot 3 Posted July 6, 2012 Put it underneath like this. lol Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shane45 807 Posted July 6, 2012 Depends on the brake. I pin some brakes on the side because the wall of the brake is very thin at the bottom. But I do not weld mine as it is not needed in a 16" or greater length barrel in my opinion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PK90 3,570 Posted July 6, 2012 Depends on the brake. I pin some brakes on the side because the wall of the brake is very thin at the bottom. But I do not weld mine as it is not needed in a 16" or greater length barrel in my opinion. If not welded, you still have a threaded barrel. No? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shane45 807 Posted July 6, 2012 In the case of the federal requirement for NFA barrels I would agree because in that scenario, you are truly required to make the barrel and brake one item. NJ just says permenantly affixed. I never found any weld requirement in the statute to be considered perminant. Since in my view the method to remove a pinned brake and a pinned and welded brake are exactly the same I would say their permenancy is equal. In fact I dont even see what the weld gets you except a whole lot of ugly on the barrel My cutter blows right through the weld, pin and brake equally. Of course it would be so much better for all if this nonsense was reversed. But since that isnt likely to happen, NJ could at least help remove some of the ambiguity by giving some guidelines at least! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Holeshot 3 Posted July 6, 2012 If not welded, you still have a threaded barrel. No? Weren't the older Colt Match Target comps pinned on with no threaded barrel or am I incorrect? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shane45 807 Posted July 6, 2012 Holeshot, Im not sure but in the same vein of your post I have been thinking about coming out with a Jersey AR barrel and brake. One that works on lugs instead of threads. This way you have no threaded barrel but you do have tha ability to remove the brake so you can service your rifle properly! It bugs the crap out of me. Some of my barrels are quite expensive! What if an adjustable gas block has an issue and needs replacing. I have to blow away a $200 brake to fix it and drill into the barrel again!!! Add every other scenario of basic maintenence that requires the brake to be removed. Its just aggrivating as hell!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sticky Grips 4 Posted July 7, 2012 The brake from my Stag was just blind pinned and not welded. I have been using 1200 degree silver solder. Its much easier and cleaner to apply. That brake isnt coming off. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krdshrk 3,877 Posted July 7, 2012 The brake from my Stag was just blind pinned and not welded. Blind pinned = welded over the top of the pin, no? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shane45 807 Posted July 7, 2012 Silver solder is a good option. But I do have some concerns about the temperature you need to reach. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PK90 3,570 Posted July 7, 2012 New Jersey law says nothing about "permanent" or "permanently affixed". A flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor I follow the Federal guideline for attaching muzzle devices for NFA firearms, as NJ has none. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Twpbaseball10 0 Posted July 7, 2012 so if I put the pin in the brake and barrel it dosent have to be welded on top? I though it had to otherwise it would be illegal in NJ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PK90 3,570 Posted July 7, 2012 Paraphrase: Federal law says that a rifle barrel must be 16" or more for a non-NFA firearm, i.e. typical rifle. If the barrel is less than 16", it must be extended with a muzzle device. That extension must be attached by either four equal welds, a weld at least halfway around, silver solder, or a pin and weld. Most 16" or greater barrels that are threaded do not have attached muzzle devices. In NJ, one can not have threaded barrels on AR or AK types because of the evil pistol grip. Hence, most manufacturers follow Federal law for NFA type rifles, thereby pinning and welding the brake on post-ban rifles. Very few only just pin the brakes on. That doesn't make it wrong or illegal, as NJ law says nothing about this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackDaWack 2,895 Posted July 7, 2012 If you don't pin it correctly or Deep enough into the threads, with no weld, it is very possible that the pin will pop out of threads allowing the brake to be removed with the threads still intact if you tried to remove it. Since it's difficult to get a square seat for the pin to sit in using a drill bit. With it welded or brazed on, the chance of it popping out of the threads is almost zero and if someone tried to muscle it off you would be left with threads that are destroyed. Like PK90 said, at least if you follow what used to be the federal guidelines you can somewhat justify the manner in which you pinned it if questioned. If you choose any other method and it was questioned you would have to prove it's inability to accept a flash suppressor. And just so people know the silver solder method is for the threads, NOT for a blind pin. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shane45 807 Posted July 7, 2012 Its a hair more complicated than that. If Im not mistaken the federal guidline also says if it can be removed with common hand tools it will be considered not to have been permenant. And this creates an issue for all methods of attachment not done right. I know several smiths that routinely twist off silver soldered brakes. That method of attachment takes a lot of experience and skill from what Im told and if not done correctly is easily undone. Pin and weld gets you nothing if the depth of the pin is not correct. The brake I just removed that was pinned and welded was barely touching the threads. It would have easily come off with a good twist of the wrench without damaging the functionality of the barrel and as such would not have qualified as permenant under ATF guidlines. But this begs the question as to what NJ is really after? We all agree that the laws were really an attempt to ban black rifles but at this stage, what is the goal? To keep you from easily swapping out a brake for a flash hider? Im sure that the state has said that blind pinning a telescoping stock is considered permenant to the manufacturers that have asked. So why wouldnt they agree its permenant at the other end? It IS a valid question, however, and worthy of consideration. If anyone has a scrap barrel laying around it might be interesting for me to pin it and then "hand tool" if off to see what the results are. My belief is that it will deform the muzzle or section of the barrel so bad it would be unusable.... but it would be interesting to see! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PK90 3,570 Posted July 7, 2012 If anyone has a scrap barrel laying around it might be interesting for me to pin it and then "hand tool" if off to see what the results are. My belief is that it will deform the muzzle or section of the barrel so bad it would be unusable.... but it would be interesting to see! Can the pin be removed without cutting excessively into the brake? Are you pinning straight into the barrel or angling across the edge? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shane45 807 Posted July 7, 2012 No it cant. The procedure to remove it, the way I pin it, would make no difference if it had a weld over the top. You would have to mill it away just the same as if it was welded. Next time Im in yer neck of the woods I'll have to swing by and we can compare notes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Twpbaseball10 0 Posted July 8, 2012 does this mean that if I drill and put the pin in, I can put silver solder over the pin so it wont come out and that will be fine? or do I have to have it welded on the hole? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shane45 807 Posted July 9, 2012 Mark my answer to you would be there is no correct answer, only what you feel comfortable with in a state that hates you! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Twpbaseball10 0 Posted July 9, 2012 I mean if gun companies send you guns with brakes just pinned and not welded on the top then I would like to think that silver solder on top would be alright just to make sure the pin dosent fall out Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
