What optics do you run on your HD shotgun?

[checko 180]

I have a set of ghost ring and high viz orange sights but was thinking of getting a reflex sight instead. I really like the grs but dont think they'd work well in low light.

 

What do you all have?

[High Exposure 5,673]

Insight MRDS on a Mesa Tactical Rail sidesaddle combo.

[Old Dog 19]

None. I do not want anything that may interfer with any of my HD firearms. Over the years I have learned that despite my best intentions, there is always a time that the batteries in the red dot are dead when I need them for an event or practice. HD shotguns tend to spend a lot of time in bedrooms; years in some cases. You want something you can just grap and shoot and not something that you have to remove a scope protector cap and/or turn on under stress.

 

Plus for HD distances you do not need much. You already have the best sight setup for HD use and do not give in to buying toys and gadgets for your guns no matter how cool they may be. Been there, got that and bought the Tee Shirt. None of the typical stuff people put on their guns does much at HD distances. I would add a good light that takes Litiium batteries with a 6 year shelf life as it is hard to use a handheld light with a shotgun. Having a light is very important as you may find yourself using your HD firearm after your power has been cut or simply out do to a natural disaster, like Sandy.

[vladtepes 1,060]

I would not personally use a shotgun as a first choice for HD... but I have HK sights on my S12 with a light.... and for 15 yards and under sighting is very easy and fast... I am not sure a red dot would be that much faster..

[DLF 1]

No optics. An Insight forend light and a Laserlyte V3.

[High Exposure 5,673]

OD,

 

What quality optics have you used? How does a RDS/Optic interfere with your HD guns? Why are the weapons you are depending on for HD/SD sitting in your bedroom for years instead of going to the range to maintain proficiency and/or the work bench for routine maintenance and function checks? What is your experience in fighting with firearms at "HD" distances? Remember, you are not giving advice to the OP on how to mix the best Margarita. You are giving advice to someone on equipment he may use one day to save his life or the life of a loved one.

 

Also, can you explain the following to me, As I am not tracking here:

Plus for HD distances you do not need much. {snip} None of the typical stuff people put on their guns does much at HD distances.

 

Much what at HD distances? Speed? Precision? Both? Because they are the two main advantages of a RDS over Iron Sights and coincidentally the two biggest factors of who will walk away after it goes loud at typical room distances when you start from behind in the OODA loop.

 

A quality RDS on any firearm used for HD/SD is a significant improvement over iron sights in speed and precision at CQB distances. This advantage is even greater in dynamic engagements and low light situations. In other words, ideal for a HD weapon intended to be used in the defense of your life or the lives of a loved one during a violent encounter in your home. For this intended use, the often used trifecta of "quality does matter", "You do get what you pay for", and "How much is your life worth?" all apply.

 

As an example, the Aimpoint T1 on the AR I use for HD, as well as the T1 I use on the rifle I carry at work, has a 50,000 hour battery life (To save you the math that is over 5 and a half years) I never turn it off. The Insight MRDS on the 870 I carry at work has a reported 1 year battery life and is just as rugged as the T1. Neither optic requires lens covers, both are extremely durable, both are always on whenever the weapon is in service. The MRDS optic is checked for function and turned on and off daily, with battery swaps in January and July. The T1s all get new batteries every January as well.

 

ETA: I agree with VladT regarding his feelings as to using a shotgun or HD. I have an AR dedicated to that duty. However, my shotgun is set up and used for "social occasions" so I felt it was relevant to the OP.

Edited January 22, 2013 by High Exposure

[bhunted 887]

Any reason the MRDS over an Aimpoint or EOTech? Just curious... I have a cheap red dot on my new Ben M4 till I can afford a better one...

 

Insight MRDS on a Mesa Tactical Rail sidesaddle combo.

[Candide 0]

My eyes!

[High Exposure 5,673]

Any reason the MRDS over an Aimpoint or EOTech? Just curious... I have a cheap red dot on my new Ben M4 till I can afford a better one...

 

I don't trust EOTurds on any social guns. I have one, but it is relegated to training duty on my S&W M&P AR .22 trainer.

 

I am using the MRDS because I already had it. It came mounted on top of a TA01NSN ACOG, but I am not a fan of that setup. So I took it off, left the ACOG on the AR, and put the MRDS on the shotgun.

 

My preference is for another T1, but the MRDS gets it done with no issues.

[bhunted 887]

Gotchya... that's why I went Aimpoint on my M1A... just thought you had a preference over open style red dots vs. the tube type...

 

I don't trust EOTurds on any social guns. I have one, but it is relegated to training duty on my S&W M&P AR .22 trainer.

 

I am using the MRDS because I already had it. It came mounted on top of a TA01NSN ACOG, but I am not a fan of that setup. So I took it off, left the ACOG on the AR, and put the MRDS on the shotgun.

 

My preference is for another T1, but the MRDS gets it done with no issues.

[silverado427 10,812]

My eyes!

+1

[Melgamatic 66]

[iCARRY 0]

I have a red dot on an 870. Change the battery once a year so I know it should be good.

[this_is_nascar 162]

I want my HD/SD shotgun to be lean and simple. I use the OEM XS Ghost Ring sight. I don't have to worry about batteries and I don't have to worry about turning it on when/if I need it. I practice with it every other month or so at a range of 5 to 15 yards, which is about what you'd be using it for in a HD/SD situation.

[vladtepes 1,060]

I want my HD/SD shotgun to be lean and simple. I use the OEM XS Ghost Ring sight. I don't have to worry about batteries and I don't have to worry about turning it on when/if I need it. I practice with it every other month or so at a range of 5 to 15 yards, which is about what you'd be using it for in a HD/SD situation.

 

for what its worth... it is impractical to worry about batteries on something like an Aimpoint... as pointed out.. they last YEARS...

[Purple Patrick 638]

I'm looking at a ghost ring for my 930. Would that be okay for skeet? Probably would get the oem rear ghost and the big dot up front. Any opinions on this?

[checko 180]

The primary reason I ask was in no/low light conditions where I may not be able to see the front sight. @ Vlad this isn't necessarily my primary defense weapon but I'm not a hunter or skeet shooter so if its in my house I want it optimized for defense if it is the first or only gun I may get to.

[Rifleman1 32]

No optics on the HD 870. Just ghost ring sights and a light.

[SJ Shooter 10]

None..just a bead on thier back...thats it.

[Scrap 4]

Both my first two shotguns came with Ghost Ring Sights... the M930SPX comes with LPA high quality sights, the 870 Tactical came with the XS Ghost Ring w/ Big Dot.

I just replaced the aperture on the SPX with the LPA fiber optic aperture, its awesome. I have not been able to find anything to upgrade the 870 with what I have on their, without changing everything.

 

As far as optics, two words : AIMPOINT MICRO. Absolutely amazing. makes all the difference, worth every dime. I'm extremely happy and they are just the best. If I had a 16" main use / duty / patrol /combat type AR, I might use a full-size Aimpoint like the M4/PRO etc. But for a smaller AR, and especially a shotgun, the Micro is absolutely amazing. I actually had wanted 2 more when they were on sale back in Dec 2010, and MidwayUSA promised PROMISED me they were getting more and had reserved 2 more for me. Then they changed stories and said they went through "more than 10K " in a week and sold all of Aimpoint's entire stock of the Micro R-1's and that was it, no more. So I was pretty disappointed, they promised they were getting more and had two extra in addition to the two I got on hold for me.

 

 

 

They are absolutely amazing. I just changed the batteries on them , having got them late December 2010 and turned them on setting 8, occasionally using setting 9, of 12, and never turning them off. They were probably good for another 3+ years but I found batteries at the dollar store, pairs of them for 1 buck, so I figured, why not right? Best be careful and change them. They are advertised at 5+ years at setting 8 of 12, and one full year at 12/12. (AND ITS SO BRIGHT you would not WANT to leave it on 12/12.). And they weight a few ounces, can't even tell they're there.

[vladtepes 1,060]

The primary reason I ask was in no/low light conditions where I may not be able to see the front sight. @ Vlad this isn't necessarily my primary defense weapon but I'm not a hunter or skeet shooter so if its in my house I want it optimized for defense if it is the first or only gun I may get to.

 

when you light up a target with your light in the dark.. iron sights are easy to see.. they create like a silhouette....with my Saiga 12 and HK sights... the front ring makes acquiring a target in a short range situation fast..

[deleteme 0]

I have a bead on my 870. Just point the barrel and shoot! And nothing to break! Hd shotguns are not about sniping

 

 

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Trijicon ACOG

[Old Dog 19]

OD,

 

What quality optics have you used? How does a RDS/Optic interfere with your HD guns? Why are the weapons you are depending on for HD/SD sitting in your bedroom for years instead of going to the range to maintain proficiency and/or the work bench for routine maintenance and function checks? What is your experience in fighting with firearms at "HD" distances? Remember, you are not giving advice to the OP on how to mix the best Margarita. You are giving advice to someone on equipment he may use one day to save his life or the life of a loved one.

 

Also, can you explain the following to me, As I am not tracking here:

 

 

Much what at HD distances? Speed? Precision? Both? Because they are the two main advantages of a RDS over Iron Sights and coincidentally the two biggest factors of who will walk away after it goes loud at typical room distances when you start from behind in the OODA loop.

 

A quality RDS on any firearm used for HD/SD is a significant improvement over iron sights in speed and precision at CQB distances. This advantage is even greater in dynamic engagements and low light situations. In other words, ideal for a HD weapon intended to be used in the defense of your life or the lives of a loved one during a violent encounter in your home. For this intended use, the often used trifecta of "quality does matter", "You do get what you pay for", and "How much is your life worth?" all apply.

 

As an example, the Aimpoint T1 on the AR I use for HD, as well as the T1 I use on the rifle I carry at work, has a 50,000 hour battery life (To save you the math that is over 5 and a half years) I never turn it off. The Insight MRDS on the 870 I carry at work has a reported 1 year battery life and is just as rugged as the T1. Neither optic requires lens covers, both are extremely durable, both are always on whenever the weapon is in service. The MRDS optic is checked for function and turned on and off daily, with battery swaps in January and July. The T1s all get new batteries every January as well.

 

ETA: I agree with VladT regarding his feelings as to using a shotgun or HD. I have an AR dedicated to that duty. However, my shotgun is set up and used for "social occasions" so I felt it was relevant to the OP.

 

Well I shot a few VC that ran into our hootch in Nam with a plain old pump Rem 870 shotgun with a bead sight. It was like a house with one big room. Got a medal for that one. Cleared many huts and buildings and a few spider holes with that shottie. Used the 1911 mostly for the tunnels. Most times my M16 was being shot in extreme anger and/or fear. I also shot action shotgun matches and Sporting Clays for about 8 years and much prefer it over shooting at things that shoot back with automatic weapons. Heck, even my retired LEO friends never shot their guns in anger. I think I have more experience in using a shotgun at HD distances against people who shoot back than most people I have run into. How about you? Just training or have you seen the devil? Big differene between the two. One thing I learned is that most people's mental image of how they will react to being shot at never involves soiled pants, extreme fear and an uncontrollable urge to run away and yet I saw it happen all the time. Training never duplicates the physical stress of life and death so it only takes you so far. A lot of things sound good and logical in training but the real useful stuff I learned in the field.

 

I hope that I answered your question about my qualifications to support my opinion.

[vladtepes 1,060]

Well I shot a few VC that ran into our hootch in Nam with a plain old pump Rem 870 shotgun with a bead sight. It was like a house with one big room. Got a medal for that one. Cleared many huts and buildings and a few spider holes with that shottie. Used the 1911 mostly for the tunnels. Most times my M16 was being shot in extreme anger and/or fear. I also shot action shotgun matches and Sporting Clays for about 8 years and much prefer it over shooting at things that do not shoot back with automatic weapons. Heck, even my retired LEO friends never shot their guns in anger. I think I have more experience in using a shotgun at HD distances against people who shoot back than most people I have run into. How about you? Just training or have you seen the devil? Big differene between the two. One thing I learned is that most people's mental image of how they will react to being shot at never involves soiled pants, extreme fear and an uncontrollable urge to run away and yet I saw it happen all the time. Training never duplicates the physical stress of life and death so it only takes you so far. A lot of things sound good and logical in training but the real useful stuff I learned in the field.

 

I hope that I answered your question about my qualifications to support my opinion.

 

it doesn't really answer the question at all... there is no doubt that when it comes to engaging in a live fire fight that you may be more qualified than most.... but it does not address your comment about optics... simply because you used an old shotgun with a bead sight and it worked does not mean a modern reflex sight is not just as reliable and faster.... with all that said I have never felt the need for a red dot on a shotgun... but that is what he was asking you...

 

What quality optics have you used? How does a RDS/Optic interfere with your HD guns?

[Old Dog 19]

it doesn't really answer the question at all... there is no doubt that when it comes to engaging in a live fire fight that you may be more qualified than most.... but it does not address your comment about optics... simply because you used an old shotgun with a bead sight and it worked does not mean a modern reflex sight is not just as reliable and faster.... with all that said I have never felt the need for a red dot on a shotgun... but that is what he was asking you...

 

I am not against RDS at all. I became left eye dominent a few years ago (apparently happens to 10% of men) and am right handed. I cannot use iron sights on a long gun anymore. For handguns it is easier since I just hold my gun under my left eye a little gangster style. I guess my point was that iron sights are fast enough for distances typically found in homes. Red dots may be faster but if you are skilled and trained I do not think the small difference in time to acquire the target outweighs the disadvantages of using an electronic device. That is all. Use what you want. I do.

[vladtepes 1,060]

I am not against RDS at all. I became left eye dominent a few years ago (apparently happens to 10% of men) and am right handed. I cannot use iron sights on a long gun anymore. For handguns it is easier since I just hold my gun under my left eye a little gangster style. I guess my point was that iron sights are fast enough for distances typically found in homes. Red dots may be faster but if you are skilled and trained I do not think the small difference in time to acquire the target outweighs the disadvantages of using an electronic device. That is all. Use what you want. I do.

 

I think it depends on the weapon...

 

for something like a shotgun with a simple bead... or even a handgun.. the target acquisition at short range is relatively fast... I prefer an AR for home defense... and I find AR iron sights to be significantly slower than a quality reflex sight... so I think it rests a lot on the type of gun... personally I am with you in regards to a shotgun.. never saw the need..

[twong11219 0]

I run a Burris FastFire II on my 20" 590A1. I use it because it came in a combo pkg when I bought my 3G scope. Was intended for my 22/45 but didn't like it at all so it sits on my lead dispenser now. It's got its pluses and minuses from my experience so far. Let's start off with the minuses. 1) Since I feel this RDS is kinda small, if I don't shoulder correctly, I loose the dot and then need to reposition my head to find it. So consistent cheek weld is necessary. 2) The rim around the lense blocks your view when leading on a clay pigeon. 3) The RDS blocks my bead which renders it useless. If you have a ghost ring or rifle sights, you can co-witness which won't be an issue in that case. 4) My Burris is not like some other brands where you can just leave it on for years, but batteries are batteries. Eventually they will die.

 

Now the pluses. 1) In low light, the dot shows up nicely. My FastFire has a light sensor that dims based on ambient lighting. So if you can't see your bead or front sight, you'll only be running instinctively for aiming. 2) It's very simple to use. Place dot on what you intend to destroy, and let'r rip. 3) As Ray can be my witness, the RDS can be used as a back-up when your tritium front sight falls off.

 

In conclusion, do I need it for HD? No. Why do I keep it on? My intent is more for 3G use with slugs. I leave it on just to keep it zero'ed. If my focus was on a dedicated HD setup, the RDS would be out. I've shot clay with beads just as consistent if not more than my RDS. I prefer an unobstructed view more than a dot for low light home use. If ever there was a SHTF situation, my furthest engagement distance will be 30' wall to wall. I don't need an RDS for that.

 

...but to each their own. Just my 2 cents.

[silverado427 10,812]

I just installed a primary arms MD07 red dot,on my mossy 500  I may take it to the range tomorrow, I had a reflex sight on there before. I just wanted one.

[checko 180]

I just installed a primary arms MD07 red dot,on my mossy 500  I may take it to the range tomorrow, I had a reflex sight on there before.

 

Is that rated for a Shotgun?