Suggestions on flyers to hand out at rallies

[wooly bugger 1]

I alluded to this in another thread, but I'll be more concrete.

 

What do people think of preparing the following flyers:

 

1) Summary of the process, costs, and timelines of getting FID/P2P and actually buying a gun. Most antis have no idea of this and are often surprised when the see how thorough the system is.

 

2) Summary of currently proposed legislation, with critique and controversially, proposals on how to modify the proposals without throwing them out altogether. Some are (putting on asbestos suit): 1) Mandate higher security FID with bar code and tamper-proof features, but no constant renewal requirement, 2) require that online vendors have photo ID, FID, and credit card information on file prior to shipping ammo. IL does this.

 

3) Quotes from the Heller decision, including historical references. This will be key to countering what will undoubtedly be an extremely one sided presentation at the Westfield meeting on the "historical basis of the 2nd amendment."

 

Talk is cheap, so, if we can agree on flyers, I'll take on the time and cost of actually putting them together and running off copies at Kinko's.

 

I'd really appreciate NJ2AS opinions here, as I'd prefer that we all speak with the same voice and wouldn't want to inadvertently undermine their messaging.

[mattio41 0]

Take some time, work up what you want it to say exactly. You can email it directly to me or to Frank Fiamingo [email protected], put on copy Bob Barush [email protected], and copy me at [email protected]. We will have everybody review it for content. Offer suggestions, etc... If agreed upon, I will design a flier for you to print with all the graphics, to make it a more official document.

 

It is not a bad idea, overall..

 

 

[wooly bugger 1]

Here's what I have on the firearm ID process. It's been awhile for me, so can others fact check?

 

 

Summary of Process to Obtain a Firearm in New Jersey

 

1) Submit application to police department

2) Obtain fingerprints for background check

3) Solicit three character references

4) Await character reference review, background check results and police department approval (Total time often takes 6-9 months)

5) Repeat entire process above, minus fingerprinting for permit to purchase pistol. This permit expires in 90 days

6) Present firearm ID and matching photo ID at store. Fill out paperwork for point of sale background checks. Two separate background checks are run: one at the state level and one at the federal level

7) Wait for results of “instant” background check: currently running about 2 weeks

8) Return to store to pick up firearm

 

 

Notes:

· A total of 3-4 independent background checks are performed before a firearm can be purchased.

· If the firearm ID holder is convicted of a crime or committed to a mental institution, the firearm ID is revoked, and the individual will fail any further point of sale background checks, thus blocking any future sales

· Newark mayor Corey Booker recently stated that, after reviewing the history of firearm crimes in Newark, he could identify only one committed by someone who had undergone the above process

[wooly bugger 1]

Here is what I came up with for a summary of the current bills. Please review and comment: especially on the "proposed improvements." I'm thinking antis might be more amenable to revising the bills than to rejecting them altogether.

 

Once I get suggestions, I'll submit to NJ2AS for their final comment and approval.

 

 

Currently proposed legislation: Comments and Proposals for Improvement

 

 

Bills A3645, A3646, A3666, A3750, and S2476

 

These bills would collectively ban mail order of ammunition and require all transactions to occur face to face from a licensed firearm dealer

 

Comments:

· There are thousands of types of ammunition, of which local stores can carry only a few. For example, match ammunition is not sold in most stores, so competitors must purchase remotely.

· Stores that sell ammunition are dwindling, so many firearm enthusiasts must travel a significant distance in order to purchase ammunition.

· Someone wishing to purchase ammunition illegally can cross into any of our bordering states and pay cash.

· In the modern information era, the technology for secure remote identity verification exists, as evidenced by the fact that it is possible to safely transfer tens of thousands of dollars without any face to face interaction

· By interfering with interstate commerce, this legislation poses significant Constitutional issues

 

Proposal for improvement:

· Illinois law can be used as a model for legislation effectively barring ineligible individuals from obtaining ammunition, without punishing law abiding gun owners or tying up the court system in years of Constitutional challenges

· Illinois law: Any resident may purchase ammunition from a person outside of Illinois. Any resident purchasing ammunition outside the State of Illinois must provide the seller with a copy of his or her valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card and either his or her Illinois driver's license or Illinois State Identification Card prior to the shipment of the ammunition. The ammunition may be shipped only to an address on either of those 2 documents.

 

 

Bill A3772

 

This bill mandates creation of a new Firearm Purchaser ID (FPID). All current holders would be required to reapply for their cards within two years of passage and then every 5 years thereafter.

 

Comments:

· The current FPID is a low technology document, which could conceivably be forged.

· Under the current law, the card is valid unless a holder becomes ineligible, in which case it must be surrendered. Even if it is illegally kept, the card number is flagged, so that if it is used in an attempted purchase, the card will not match a valid card at the time of the point of sale background checks, and the purchaser will be arrested.

· For the same reason, a counterfeit card is useless, since the name and number will not match a valid card in the database.

· Even if these mechanisms fail, each buyer must submit to two instant background checks at the point of sale, which effectively blocks illegal purchases.

· Under the current system, police departments are overwhelmed with applications, which often take 6-9 months. If every FPID holder in the state were to reapply, the system would likely collapse. Maintaining the system would likely cost tens of millions of dollars a year.

 

Suggestions for Improvement of the bill:

· Require the design of a modernized FPID

· Include funding provisions, so the significant workload of re-licensing every gun owner in the state can be absorbed by police departments

· Rather than requiring constant reapplications, which would place significant burden on both gun owners and tax payers, include in the design of the card a magnetic strip to prevent counterfeiting and to allow for instant deactivation if a card holder becomes ineligible

[anactivegrenade 25]

Good ideas you got there.. mind if I design a flyer that speaks more generally of statistics and gun crime?

 

EDIT: Changed my mind. Yur ideas are much more appropriate for what we're dealing with ATM.

[wooly bugger 1]

Good ideas you got there.. mind if I design a flyer that speaks more generally of statistics and gun crime?

 

EDIT: Changed my mind. Yur ideas are much more appropriate for what we're dealing with ATM.

Why did you change your mind? I think it would be great to have a page on violent crime statistics, both in NJ and nationwide. It would undermine the panic they're trying to stir about an "epidemic of violence." Another good fact would be the findings of the National Institute of Justice Assessment of the Federal Assault Weapons ban, which stated:

"In general we found, really, very, very little evidence, almost none, that gun violence was becoming any less lethal or any less injurious during this time frame. So on balance, we concluded that the ban had not had a discernible impact on gun crime during the years it was in effect."

Here's the report:

 

http://publicintelli...pons-ban-study/

 

Correction: That quote isn't from the study, it's from a discussion with the author on the findings of the study.

 

http://www.factcheck.org/2013/02/did-the-1994-assault-weapons-ban-work/

[mark_anthony_78 0]

Don't use too many words... pictures are better to make a quick point.

 

Here's something I made for an argument on a local forum. Just as an example.

[Old Dog 19]

No one seems to like my idea of flyers that say Support us or we will shoot you! I am old enough to know that you cannot change a made up mind. People tend to believe what they want despite the facts. If it was otherwise, we would not have any religions left.