Griffin and Howe on rifles..

[Barms 98]

was refreshing to read G&H acknowledging technology in rifles..    me sorta being new to long guns.. I thought there was this old school stigma that hunters despised black guns..(or maybe it was shotgun guys hate black guns). i'm not sure... anyway,  the quote:  (bold added by me)

 

 

The young

hunter now goes to more physically

extreme limits and wants a light, accurate,

reliable semi-automatic hunting system.

Blaser was the first to change the goal post

with their straight pull action and target

type accuracy on their R93 and now R8

hunting rifles. Already the Remington

R15 and R25 are considered, in knowl-

edgeable circles, to be the American

affordable hunting rifle of the 21st century.

It may at the moment carry the “AR”

stigma but when one looks back to all the

military issue rifle systems, WWI saw the

Springfield 1903 and Mauser actions,

favorite customized sporting hunting

rifles for decades after WWI. Then came

WWII and the Garand, a semi-automatic

rifle, the semi-automatic then became

acceptable as a hunting rifle.

 

entire article is here: http://www.blackriverjournal.com/pdf/TheBlackRiverJournalSummer2013Issue.pdf

 

[Parker 213]

The only "stigma" hunters had with the black rifle for half a century is the cartridge it's chambered in. That is the limitation. Depending on various state's hunting guidelines for big game, the .223/5.56 doesn't make minimum caliber requirements in many of them for the most popular 4-legged game pursued; the whitetail deer.  

[Parker 213]

One article on the .223/5.56 and the points I mentioned:

 

Hunters’ Rights and the .223

http://www.nrahuntersrights.org/Article.aspx?id=6148

[usnmars 136]

Well if the .223 is not adequate enough for 4 legged game, what makes the military think it is adequate for 2 legged.   OOOH OOH I know, the same old excuse that it's the bullet, there is new technology and better performance coming out.  Isn't that what they have been saying for the past 3 decades. 

[Parker 213]

Well if the .223 is adequate enough for 4 legged game, what makes the military think it is adequate for 2 legged.   OOOH OOH I know, the same old excuse that it's the bullet, there is new technology and better performance coming out.  Isn't that what they have been saying for the past 3 decades. 

 

The .223 has the honor of being one of the most controversial as well as most loved/hated round in America.

 

Many states still deem the .223 adequate, in fact, New York and Pennsylvania cite "any" centerfire caliber adequate for big game. "Big game" crosses many boundaries in those states; deer and bear in New York,  and deer, bear and elk in Pennsylvania. I've been to deer camps hunting in both states and the .223 is not at the top of anyone's list as a game-getter. Where would you draw the line and at what species with the use of the .223? Ingalik's hunt caribou, muskox and moose up north in Alaska and think nothing of shooting them with a .223. Used for food gathering, in a situation that means the difference between sustaining oneself or starving, they do quite well with the tiny round.

 

Some states still require a minimum of .23 caliber, others require .24. Some people think the .243 Win. isn't adequate for whitetail, yet that round has as much energy at 100 yds. as the .223 has at the muzzle.

 

My friend uses his .223 in New York each year, and is successful with it on deer. He uses the Barnes bullet, which expands beautifully and holds together. But, I'll note that he only uses his AR when it comes to filling his doe tags, never when he's chasing a buck. Penetration on game is never complete, for he's recovered every bullet after a thorough necropsy. Every shot he's taken is carefully planned and selected. In very capable hands, the .223 is sufficient. But it would never be my first choice on game, I think there are better rounds that fill the bill.

[Barms 98]

I definitely did not intend my post to be about an ammunition discussion, but the above talk is excellent.   What drew me to the article was that you have such a storied history company like G&H acknowledging that an AR TYPE PLATFORM is here to stay.   And the old school hunters hating all the attraction that black guns have brought to gun laws.    (and forgive me for the real knowlegable people here that will laugh thinking there is similarities between the R15 and a Carbine).