calling mechanics/techs!

[1LtCAP 4,267]

i needs haaalllllpppp!!!!

 

i have an 05 viper truck. that's a dodge ram1500 with the 8.3 liter viper engine. these have hydraulic cooling fan control. what i'm trying to find, is just the hydraulic cooling fan switch. it's a solenoid that screws into the fan drive. dodge is trying to sell me the entire assembly for nearly 1100 list. i'm kind of guessing at this being bad, as i cannot find any test procedures for it, and the power steering pressure line is blowing off at the pump. this appears to me to be the only possible source of restriction to create that much pressure.

any of you techs/mechanis famaliar with this? or had this sort of problem? i've been through some viper and viper truck forums, and really can't find anything other than "make a one piece hose".    thanks guys!!
 

[dwamp2006 1]

send me a PM Im a dodge tech here in burlco

[carguy3j 0]

Here's a link for used fan assembly.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/04-05-Ram-1500-SRT-10-SRT10-Viper-Truck-8-3L-OEM-Engine-Cooling-Fan-Motor-/251350870861?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a85adeb4d&vxp=mtr

 

Is the sensor that is sticking up, vertically, from the hydraulic motor, what you are looking for?

 

As a side not, why not just ditch that weird setup, and switch to an electric fan? It would probably give you a small gain in HP and MPG, due to reduced parasitic drag. in other words, it takes less HP to uses the alternator to produce a little more charge to run an e-fan, then it does turn a fan mechanically, or by hydraulic pressure in this case. You could get yourself a nice new setup for far less then what the dealer would want to repair your current fan, assuming that you have even guessed the caused correctly.

Looking at the pic in the ebay listing, you MIGHT even be able to adapt an electric motor to your existing shroud/blade, by just removing the hydr. motor. This would be cheaper and look "factory", but would take some creativity. Or just by a new Flex-A-Lite system with temp switch and all......

 

On my Ranger, I used a spare mechanical fan shroud to start, then trimmed and fiberglassed in a Volvo V70 e-fan, and run it with a cheap Autozone temp switch. I can feel the increased power, and I have gained about 2 mpg on average.

[carguy3j 0]

Here's a link to a search for some electric fan setups. I would narrow the search, on the left side of the page, to those 4,000cfm and up, given the size of your engine.

http://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/fans-electric?SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Ascending&keyword=electric%20fan

[Brownie^HP 6]

Looking at the photos on the link the carguy3j listed. 

I think that's the control valve to modulate coolant fan to the fan motor.  Is your truck having any cooling problems? 

 

I don't understand why if that valve is bad why it would cause the power steering hose to blow off.

Does your truck have a power steering heat exchanger on it?

 

Keep us posted! 

[NJKen 23]

The hydraulic fan is not unique to dodge.  I would not try to use an electric fan in its place for the simple reason that there is no electric fan that can move as much air as the hydraulic one.  That solenoid can be tested with a simple volt ohm meter.  It is just an electromagnet that pulls a plunger inside a steel stem to let fluid flow.  You could probably find all the info you need by looking up "electric over hydraulic control" on Google.  The stem under the solenoid can fail by getting stuck.  I am not 100 percent positive about Dodge but on hydraulic equipment when they get stuck in the middle the overpressure releif valve will stop lines from blowing.  You can probably take the stem out and verify that the piston in it moves.  If it appears to be jammed up start looking for hydraulic shops and you may be able to find one.

Ken

[dwamp2006 1]

Talk to our resident viper specialist, but i need more info from you. Where exactly is it blowing off at? what kind of clamp is it? is it threaded, quick disconnect or regular hose clamp? 

[dwamp2006 1]

either way dont go replacing any of the mentioned parts yet, you might just need the line, apparently we had a run of cheaply made hoses/lines and thats all that should need replacement.

[1LtCAP 4,267]

i'll snap a couple pictures tomorrow. i should've today, but i got my butt handed to me by half a dozen other cars.

 

 the problem hose is the one between the power steering pump, and the fan drive. it kind of looks like one of those ford pressure lines that is able to pivot when the nut's tightened. the truck came in originally leaking at the fitting where it threads into the power steering pump. no problem, right? order the new hose from dodge, right? naaahhh.....toooooo easy! this comes as THREE pieces. two ends, and the new hose. the ends have a snapring inside of them. once installed, they cannot be disassembled.

 when i installed the first set, it lasted a week. blew out as the customer was backing out of his driveway. at the power steering pump. i got a new end, and installed it. it lasted for a 1 mile test drive, and then the same thign again. only this time, it was sitting idling in my parking lot.

 

 i called dodge, and they warrantied the entire set for me, as i'd suspected a possible defect. no go. same deal. i've been dealing with performance dodge in woodbury with this, and those guys have been great to me.

 

 someone had suggested putting an electric fan in. i mentioned that to my customer today, and he doesn't want to do it. he'd prefer to keep it like it is, 'cept that it works. as it sets, his is one of 500 in its configuration, so i can understand that.

[1LtCAP 4,267]

also.....thanks guys!!

[dwamp2006 1]

If thats the case im going to have to say you might be installing it incorrectly, the "snap rings" are actually quick disconnects, there is a tool to unhook them much like a fuel line tool. I would go over it again and make sure your seating the line correctly. Install both fittings then install the line, making sure not to kink it or route it incorrectly. Make sure you get a good snap in and that there is no play in the fitting after installation. The PS switch isnt going to cause the line to pop off btw.

[1LtCAP 4,267]

i'll re-check them tomorrow, and will get pictures. i don't see how any tools will fit in between the fitting and the line though. i did have what i felt was a good solid snap, but could be wrong. i also had assembled the line, routed it as it came out, into its little plastic brackets, and then threaded in the pump end first.......but hell.......i've made dumber mistakes in the past than not seating a snap ring properly.......

[dwamp2006 1]

Here is what our files say on installation, i cant copy the pics but heres the text...

 

NOTE: Before installing power steering hose, replace used O-rings as necessary. Clean hose ends and open ports with a lint-free cloth. Lubricate O-rings with clean power steering fluid.

1. If pressure hose is separate from quick-connect fittings:
   1. Thread quick-connect fitting (8) into cooling fan port (Power Steering Hoses). Tighten fitting to 28 N·m (21 ft. lbs.) torque.
   2. Slide fan end of pressure hose tube into quick-connect fitting until it locks into place.
2. If pressure hose has quick-connect fittings installed on ends, thread fan end quick-connect fitting into fan port. Tighten hose fitting to 28 N·m (21 ft. lbs.) torque.
3. Install power steering pressure hose into routing clip (7) on cooling module (5)(Power Steering Hoses).
4. If pressure hose is separate from quick-connect fittings:
   1. Thread quick-connect fitting into power steering pump pressure fitting (10) (Power Steering Hoses). Tighten hose fitting to 28 N·m (21 ft. lbs.) torque.
   2. Slide pump end of pressure hose tube into quick-connect fitting until it locks into place.
5. If pressure hose has quick-connect fittings installed on ends, thread pump end quick-connect fitting into power steering pump pressure fitting (Power Steering Hoses). Tighten fitting to 28 N·m (21 ft. lbs.) torque.
6. Fill power steering pump reservoir to correct fluid level. (Refer to 19 - STEERING/PUMP/FLUID - STANDARD PROCEDURE)
7. Perform Power Steering Pump Initial Operation procedure. (Refer to 19 - STEERING/PUMP - STANDARD PROCEDURE).
8. Check for leaks at all hose connections.

[dwamp2006 1]

pics will deff help, send me a PM when you post them that way ill get the email to my phone and can check them while im still in the shop.

[1LtCAP 4,267]

rgr that. and thanks again sir!!

 

 the part of this that's pressuring me....the guy has three vehicles......2000 durango, and b1500, and this viper truck. the truck came in with these problems. last week, coming back from free america(pa), the engine locked up on the b1500. so now, they're down to the durango, and his wife's on his case every night........

[1LtCAP 4,267]

ok....here's some pics i think.....

well that didn't work. how the heck do i put pics here?

[Brownie^HP 6]

I had a brain fart yesterday, in thinking the fan was hydronic instead of hydraulic (I'm HVAC, 25 years).

 

Check to see if there is a blockage in the fan hydraulic housing. That's were I think your problem is, remove the control valve and see if the passages are clear.

 

Did the the owner have the power steering system flushed before?

 

http://www.moparpartsoverstock.com/showAssembly.aspx?ukey_assembly=1011363

[1LtCAP 4,267]

sorry for so long to reply.....been running hectic this morning.

 

he bought the truck about 2 years ago. it's been flawless till now. i've been the only person to work on it since he's had it, and he hasn't had me flush it. he does know to keep atf+4 in the system though.

[1LtCAP 4,267]

ok....i THINK i got pics to attach. they're big though.

inside of the fitting from which the line blew out.....note the missing snapring. it came partially out when it blew...

same fitting, from outside...

this is the end that used to be installed int he fitting...

tag on the hose. i figured possibly the p/n on there would help you id if it's one of the defective lot you mentioned?

this is the end that went into the fan drive unit. see how tight that is? it's the same as the old one was.

same fitting, from the side....

fitting partially threaded into the pump

 

[1LtCAP 4,267]

notice the angled groove? that's new. it wasn't there when new....

 

 

thank you VERY much for taking your time to try to help me with this sir!!

[1LtCAP 4,267]

also, i forgot to mention.....last night, when i pulled that pressure hose off....before removal, i ran shop air through the fan drive. my system runs at 150psi. fan seemed awful slow to me. after removal, i ran it from the port on the drive itself, and seemed the same.....but i don't know how fast it SHOULD spin on shop air though.......

 

 i also removed and disassembled that solenoid, and found no obvious restrictions.......

[Brownie^HP 6]

When running the air thru I would remove control valve and plug that port. Cap the nipple for hose 13 and then run air thru port 16 and check fan speed. And then plug port / hose 7 and run air thru port 16 and check fan speed.  If that's good I would guess the problem is with the connection at the outlet of the pump.