Bureaucracy Battles!

[HBecwithFn7 296]

OK Folks. I've almost ready to "begin the bureaucracy" and file for FID and permits. I've been told by some of you
(and by some others in th know) that my municpality should handle things swiftly (i.e. less than 30 days, if all goes well). I'll have to wait just a little longer, because I'm going to be doing some cave diving, and pulling along some of the rocks inside a cave tends to wear down one's finger pads... almost raw, even. It takes a good 3 months or so for them to return to normal. So, I'm probably a good 3 months away from the actual start.

Anyway, my post today is about some of the finer points of the NJ and federal "bureaucracy" processes, especially when it comes to "verifying my identity." I may be in for a bit of a rough ride, depending on how things are handled. I'll explain.

The standard "cannon" of any decent bureaucracy is to require  everyone to use "First name," "Middle Initial," "Last Name." etc., because "everybody does it... right???"  WRONG! I just had to be one of those crazy people out there that use "First Initial," "Middle Name," "Last name." And I've been  battling bureacracies all my life, as a result. For purposes of this thread, let's call me, "John Quenton Public, Jr."  I've always gone by "J. Quenton Public, Jr." At 14 I got a Social Security card that says "J. Quenton Public, Jr." All of my school transcripts say, "J. Quenton Public, Jr."

 

Enter my first battle with that grand bureaucracy we all love to hate, the "NJ Div. of Motor Vehicles," who absolutely insisted that I use "John Q. Public, JR." on my Driver's License. No amount of negotiation was successful. Well, after a few months, I finally got a breakthrough. I'd be allowed to have just the initials "J. Q. Public, JR." on my NJ driver license, and I could sign the license, "J. Quenton Public, Jr." And off I went to college. All of my college transcripts showing "J. Quenton Public, Jr."

Still not satisfied, after graduating college out of state, and turning 21, I actualy went to court and filed a legal "change of name," shortening the first name "John" to just the initial "J".  So, technically, I am, legally, "J Quenton Public, Jr" now, (no period in front of the "J". My birth certificae was updated accordingly. And I walked out of the court room and into the US Paspport office and got my first US Passport as "J Quenton Public, Jr." It's been that way for the last 30+ years.

But, sadly, my battles with the NJ DMV were not over! Upon my return home, they absolutely could not allow me to call myself "J Quenton Public, Jr." because their database does not have a field for a "full middle name," only the "initial." Hence I still have to list my Driver License name as "J Q Public, Jr," but, again, I can sign it "J Quenton Public, Jr."


And, thus, my dilema in the FID bureaucracy process.  Will I fail the process, NICS checks, etc. due to this discrepency? For the record, I have no criminal or pyschological history, whatsoever. All my documents, credit history, tax returns, voter registration, employment history, etc. are listed as "J Quenton Public, Jr." I see that I can fill out the sts-033 and sp-066 (even the SBI_212A) as "J Quenton Public, Jr" and that is what I want on the FID card. And I'm more than willing to explain all of this to my chief.  Oh, one other thing. For "security/spam reduction" reasons, all mail goes to a PO box that is not in the same town as where I live. Even the NJ Drivers license goes to that PO Box, although I'm certain the DMV has both PO Box and street addresses on file. Only my voter registration has my street address actually printed.

So, am I in for a huge "bureaucracy battle" in getting my FID?  Any thoughts from experienced battlers, greatly appreciated. 

 

Thanks

 

[mcbethr 42]

I don't think so.  As long as you are not a felon, alcoholic, drug abuser or want to violently overthrow the government, you should be okay.

 

 

Oh, one other thing. For "security/spam reduction" reasons, all mail goes to a PO box that is not in the same town as where I live. 

Gecko45 is that you?

 

:-)

 

But seriously, welcome to the forums.  What town do you live in?

[10X 3,306]

I can't answer your question, but enjoy the cave diving!   Florida, or the Yucatan?  Shredded fingers sounds more like Florida.

[HBecwithFn7 296]

I don't think so.  As long as you are not a felon, alcoholic, drug abuser or want to violently overthrow the government, you should be okay.

 

 

Gecko45 is that you?

 

:-)

 

But seriously, welcome to the forums.  What town do you live in?

 

I am none of those.    I am not Gecko45 , and it's Independence Twp. I am told "less than 30 days." We'll see.

 

Thanks

[HBecwithFn7 296]

I can't answer your question, but enjoy the cave diving!   Florida, or the Yucatan?  Shredded fingers sounds more like Florida.

 

Florida, indeed.

[joshroz2 4]

You'll be fine as long as you put down what they ask for. The name change won't be a big deal but i'm sure they will ask you about it.

I don't understand the big deal of J Q. Public vs J Quenton Public. it's just an abreviation.

[DirtyDigz 1,812]

If you encounter

any danger during your dive

make sure you counter

by blading at 45.

[HBecwithFn7 296]

You'll be fine as long as you put down what they ask for. The name change won't be a big deal but i'm sure they will ask you about it.

I don't understand the big deal of J Q. Public vs J Quenton Public. it's just an abreviation.

 

It's only a big deal with the NJ DMV, because their database doesn't have a field for full middle name... just the middle "initial."  So it has to show "J Q Public, Jr" on the license itself. The problem is that Driver's License is *the* absolute primary form of ID for just about anything, these days. And with all these bureaucracies that say, "The name must match exactly..."  I wasn't sure what might happen with the FID process. When I take credential exams for my profession, I have to show two forms of ID, and "The name must match exactly."  Most of the proctors want to see your driver's license. But I have to show my passport, since it has "J Quenton Public, Jr" on it and not "J Q Public."  Point being, since driver's license is so "cannon," people raise flags when you show  them anything else, even though it might be just as legal/acceptable.

[joshroz2 4]

That brings up a good point. You might get hassled at the store or range if your FID and DL don't match both in name and in address. But the diffeence between a full middle name and a abbreviation on documents doesn't make them not match. Everyone has documents with all 3 full names like Birth cert and at the same time a DL with first, MI, last.

 

the issue might be with the address because they will almost certainly not let you put a PO box on your FID and if its on your license they wont match.

[HBecwithFn7 296]

That brings up a good point. You might get hassled at the store or range if your FID and DL don't match both in name and in address. But the diffeence between a full middle name and a abbreviation on documents doesn't make them not match. Everyone has documents with all 3 full names like Birth cert and at the same time a DL with first, MI, last.

 

the issue might be with the address because they will almost certainly not let you put a PO box on your FID and if its on your license they wont match.

 

I might have a solution for that. My driver's license is up for renewal in February 2014, as it turns out. I'll see if they'll let me go back to putting my street address on it. They have both on file. They're supposed to have a street address on file for LE purposes, anyway. The range I go to (Heritage Guild in Easton PA) did not hassle me about the PO Box. They accepted me as an "annual" member anyway.

[mcbethr 42]

If you encounter

any danger during your dive

make sure you counter

by blading at 45.

Burma-Shave

[DirtyDigz 1,812]

Burma-Shave

 

I hate to admit that I'm almost old enough to recognize that reference.

[ryan_j 0]

Just give what they ask for and make sure it matches your photo ID (driver license). 

 

On another note, when I became a naturalized citizen, USCIS wanted me to sign my full name on my naturalization certificate. However, I usually sign my first and second initials and my full last name. But I did what they said and that is the only place I've ever signed like that. 

[HBecwithFn7 296]

Just give what they ask for and make sure it matches your photo ID (driver license). 

 

On another note, when I became a naturalized citizen, USCIS wanted me to sign my full name on my naturalization certificate. However, I usually sign my first and second initials and my full last name. But I did what they said and that is the only place I've ever signed like that. 

 

That's the problem... it will never match.  The NJ DMV doesn't store a full middle name... only a middle "initial." They don't have the database field for it (well, they didn't as of the last renewal in 2010).  OTOH, my passport *would* match perfectly, but doesn't have my address on it (as has been pointed out in a different thread). My name appears on my driver's license the same way you wanted to sign yours on your naturalization certificate. I'm pretty sure that won't be acceptable in this "post 9/11" era of "extra scrutiny."  Everyone (not just the USCIS) wants a "full legal name" now.  If I put just the two initials and last name on the FID, I'm pretty sure it would fail NICS checks and/or my chief would reject it... or, at least, question it seriously.

 

One would think that  NJ DMV would have updated their system by now, given the need to document people more closely and the importance of Driver's License/State ID for identification purposes, but nooooooo...

 

Anyway, I'll have a conversation with my chief before I submit the FID and see what he wants. Also, I'll be renewing my driver's license in another 2-3 months (regular renewal time) so I'll see if they can add the full middle name, and will certainly make sure the address is no longer my PO box but the street address (both are on file there).

[HBecwithFn7 296]

And, thus, my dilema in the FID bureaucracy process.  Will I fail the process, NICS checks, etc. due to this discrepency? For the record, I have no criminal or pyschological history, whatsoever. All my documents, credit history, tax returns, voter registration, employment history, etc. are listed as "J Quenton Public, Jr." I see that I can fill out the sts-033 and sp-066 (even the SBI_212A) as "J Quenton Public, Jr" and that is what I want on the FID card. And I'm more than willing to explain all of this to my chief.  Oh, one other thing. For "security/spam reduction" reasons, all mail goes to a PO box that is not in the same town as where I live. Even the NJ Drivers license goes to that PO Box, although I'm certain the DMV has both PO Box and street addresses on file. Only my voter registration has my street address actually printed.

 

Update: I went to the NJ DMV website, this evening, to do some research, and within 30 seconds, I was able to register a change of address back to my street address on file, free of charge. I expect to receive stickers to affix on the DL for the change within 14 days. I just have to make sure I'm not stopped in between now and the time I get home from Florida. And since I need to renew the license in another two months anyway (regular 4 year renewal), it won't matter much.

 

So that problem solved, I'll have to see if they will add my full middle name. If yes, then I can fill out the sts-033 and other docs with confidence that they won't cause any "discrepancies." 

 

2nd Update:  I think I have my answer, already. I went to the "Contact Us:" form on the NJ DMV website and, sure enough, it requires entry of your name.... "First Name, Middle Initial and Last Name" 

 

Oddly enough... it does *not* require Social Security #. 

[HBecwithFn7 296]

Anyway, my post today is about some of the finer points of the NJ and federal "bureaucracy" processes, especially when it comes to "verifying my identity." I may be in for a bit of a rough ride, depending on how things are handled. I'll explain.

 

The standard "cannon" of any decent bureaucracy is to require  everyone to use "First name," "Middle Initial," "Last Name." etc., because "everybody does it... right???"  WRONG! I just had to be one of those crazy people out there that use "First Initial," "Middle Name," "Last name." And I've been  battling bureacracies all my life, as a result. For purposes of this thread, let's call me, "John Quenton Public, Jr."  I've always gone by "J. Quenton Public, Jr." At 14 I got a Social Security card that says "J. Quenton Public, Jr." All of my school transcripts say, "J. Quenton Public, Jr."

 

Enter my first battle with that grand bureaucracy we all love to hate, the "NJ Div. of Motor Vehicles," who absolutely insisted that I use "John Q. Public, JR." on my Driver's License. No amount of negotiation was successful. Well, after a few months, I finally got a breakthrough. I'd be allowed to have just the initials "J. Q. Public, JR." on my NJ driver license, and I could sign the license, "J. Quenton Public, Jr." And off I went to college. All of my college transcripts showing "J. Quenton Public, Jr."

...

But, sadly, my battles with the NJ DMV were not over! Upon my return home, they absolutely could not allow me to call myself "J Quenton Public, Jr." because their database does not have a field for a "full middle name," only the "initial." Hence I still have to list my Driver License name as "J Q Public, Jr," but, again, I can sign it "J Quenton Public, Jr."

 

QUICK UPDATE:    Today was "Driver License renewal" day. 

 

Everything went fine up to when I got to the picture booth,   I can't believe the lady questioning why I didn't have a "full first name" listed.  I tried to explain to her that the initial *was* my legal first name, and that it's been that way in their records for the last 35+ years!  She stiil had to go question it with her supervisor!!!  AGGGGHHHHH!  Thankfully, calmer heads prevailed and she returned to the booth having not changed a thing on my records. New picture taken, DL was renewed, everything still matches my FID, and I don't have to worry about it for another 4 years.

 

Hopefully, I'll have a "Florida" license by then... :D

 

BTW, the new DL lists "Last name" first in larger typeface,  followed by First & Middle Init. in smaller typeface below it. The only significant change that I can see since 4 years ago.