Ukraine

[Oleg 8]

Source?
NATO is doing military exercises in the area, must be related.

[71ragtopgoat 23]

I think we should give them CA.

We did. They own it we just pay the bills.

[njpilot 671]

We did. They own it we just pay the bills.

Lol. Ain't that the truth.

[Walt of Destiny 412]

Very interesting comments and insight.

 

If we on this very close knit community can have such disparate takes on the same events, how can we surprised that the greater population can't even begin to understand the subtleties and consequences of deeply historical conflicts. Pretty much sums up our mucking about in places where a combatant's great great great grandparents were combatants. Think Hatfields and McCoys only over 2000 years.

 

We Americans just don't understand why they just don't get over it already.

 

Look at how much suffering has come from waging war over whose imaginary friend is better. But we keep on getting involved.

 

Meanwhile I just got a notice from Horizon BCBS that, because of the amateur's health insurance law, the long standing "Cadillac" plan I provide for my employees is not being renewed this August. But a traffic jam on the NJ approach to the GWB is front page news. But I digress.

[Zeke 5,504]

Source?

NATO is doing military exercises in the area, must be related.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2014/05/us-troops-head-to-latvia-as-russia-progresses-against-helpless-ukraine/

[supranatural 66]

As a former Ukranian, I am damn glad one way or another, the abuse of Russian speakers in Ukraine will finally come to an end.  

 

Bottom line... nothing to worry about, nor is this any of America's business.  When most folks could not even locate Ukraine on the map.  Just something that is thrown on the news to take your mind off of how screwed the United States is on the domestic front.

 

Boeing just spent 2.6 billion dollars on a deal with Russia and invested in another deal for over 17 billion over the next 7 years.  The economies are so intertwined, any sactions will hurt the US and EU more than Russia.  (after all, Russia actually has account surpluses instead of trillions in Debt. lol).

 

I would say as with anything, the news coverage you get here, of Russia and Ukraine is just as correct as the picture they paint of gun owners.

 

I still have family and friends in parts of Ukraine and they would all beg to differ with the coverage you have here.

 

What has the puppet government done so far in Ukraine?  They have instituted new military taxes, and drafted a bunch of males to the army.  The fascists and nazi's in Ukraine, under the "right sector" who were part of Maidan and the new government have taken control over the government and have beaten senseless any Russian speakers.  They have shot the mayor of a pro Russian town, told jews they needed to register, they have beaten up and sent to the hospital a Russian speaking candidate for president, they have made movements to cancel Holacaust remembrance and WW2 victory day parades in June. 

 

Depends on who you speak to.  My wife is Ukrainian, she moved her 5 years ago and she has extensive family there as well as friends, as do I (I would travel there and stay there for months at a time, one of my best friends is an officer in the army stationed in Kiev).  To a person they all denounce what Putin is doing and say the situation is bad, and the *all* want the US and Europe to step in and help but realize it probably won't happen.  They all support the new government and hate the corruption that was going on with Yanakovuch and the $100 billion dollars that disappeared, most of it into Russia and Putin's hands.  My wife was part of the Orange Revolution when it occurred not that long ago and many see this as a continuation of that, but probably much more severe.  So while you think the new government are fascists (sounds suspiciously like the rhetoric that Putin is spewing out...and it sounds like you are one of the pro Russian faction in Ukraine) the people I know there think they are salvation.  Same for other Ukrainians I know in the US that I've spoken to.

[Michael2013 56]

I think, one very important point is missing.
After the collapse of the Soviet Union, Ukraine (as well as Belarus and Kazakhstan) became a brand new owner of the nuclear weapons.  In fact, Ukraine became the third in the world after the US and Russia.  (And Belarus became number one in the world in nukes per capita.)  Nobody was happy about this situation.  After negotiations, Ukraine gave up the nukes in exchange for the guarantee of its territorial integrity by some major world powers including US and Russia.
Giving up anything of essence for a paper promise never works.  Now Ukraine doesn't have nukes, neither territorial integrity.
The question is - are we going to see fewer or more countries willing to have nukes?  Another question - when every rogue regime has a bomb (if they can produce it but can buy) - how long it would take for a nuke go off in NY City?

[supranatural 66]

I think, one very important point is missing.

After the collapse of the Soviet Union, Ukraine (as well as Belarus and Kazakhstan) became a brand new owner of the nuclear weapons.  In fact, Ukraine became the third in the world after the US and Russia.  (And Belarus became number one in the world in nukes per capita.)  Nobody was happy about this situation.  After negotiations, Ukraine gave up the nukes in exchange for the guarantee of its territorial integrity by some major world powers including US and Russia.

Giving up anything of essence for a paper promise never works.  Now Ukraine doesn't have nukes, neither territorial integrity.

The question is - are we going to see fewer or more countries willing to have nukes?  Another question - when every rogue regime has a bomb (if they can produce it but can buy) - how long it would take for a nuke go off in NY City?

Absolutely right.  I was on my way out the door for a birthday party and didn't have time to post a complete response.  But in essence Russia is breaking a legal agreement they signed off on to guarantee Ukraine's sovereignty yet here they are now getting ready to invade.  Putin's words and promises are worthless and empty and set a bad example for nuclear disarmament.  Can you imagine how a North Korea would react now if we "promised" a legal agreement to guarantee their sovereignty if "they disarmed" all nukes, same for the Irans of the world?  It's never going to happen now.  My wife says there are bare empty holes in the ground where Yanakovich ripped out military weapon and sold them off for his own profit and now Ukraine is near defenseless.  It's a terrible situations for Ukrainians (but great for Russians who want to annex the country)...kind of reminds me of the people who want to disarm 2A rights under the guise that "we will all be safer." Yeah, sure...

[Zeke 5,504]

Soooo, was it Russia that shot down the plane?

Soooo, is it Russia that's firing artillery over the border?

Sooo, is it Russia?.......

[Oleg 8]

I was wondering how was it possible that this separatist movement had so many people, equipment, propaganda materials handy right at the start of the events. Turns out it was a long way into the making. There is evidence that they openly started separatist movement together with Communist Party as far back as 2006. And it seems like every year it became more and more organized. From what I saw in pictures even the language of the message stayed the same about hate toward anything Ukrainian.

Unbelievable stuff