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planenut

Missing Ammo Shipment

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Had a little incident the other day. Ordered up some ammo from Freedom Munitions who shipped it UPS. Checked the status and said it was delivered while I was at home. Checked the front, side, and back yards and found nothing. Called UPS who said they would look into it and call back within an hour. Received a call from them two hours later claiming that the driver delivered it and me stressing "heavily" that it wasn't there and they said driver would retrace route the next day. Called Freedom Munitions and told them the situation and they would file a claim with UPS to get an investigation started. Within minutes of me hanging up with them my neighbor from down the street drops off my ammo. Called back UPS to register a complaint against the driver for dropping it off at the wrong house (for whatever good that does :shout: ) and also called Freedom to give them the update.

 

Now comes my question. If my ammo had not been found and was still missing, what would be my obligations under the current law. Would there be any requirement to report this to the police or would I just file the complaints with the shipper/shipping company in question?  If there is a reporting requirement, is the onus on me to report it or the shipping company to do so? The ammo in question was a mix of 9mm, 38spl, and 357 Mag. All of which were FMJ and none of them were HP's, if that makes any difference.

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Not being a lawyer, I would think it is not your problem until you 

take possession of the shipment - just like any other item you 

would order.

I would think the burden would be on the shipper & UPS to prove

you received the shipment. Since you had never taken possession 

it would be up to Freedom and their carrier of choice (UPS) to figure 

out where it went and if you were not shipped a replacement order, you

could simply file a claim with your CC company - They would ask the shipper

for proof of delivery, and since there is none - your not obligated to pay..........

 

JMO

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You never had possession of it, you didnt misplace it, you dont have any proof that someone actually stole from your property.  All you know is it was never delivered to you. 

If I were in that situation, I wouldnt report it unless I think doing so will help with UPS getting off their butt to go find it - which I doubt.  Let them report it if they think it was stolen. 

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If you call the cops, do you know what you get?

 

You get the cops.

 

And this is Jersey, and this is gun stuff. Who knows what will happen.

 

BTW, check for squibs if your gun doesn't fire and... hope you don't have any other problems.

Laughing my testicles off over here, lol!

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Planenut, you are under no obligation other than to report a missing shipment to the sender and his/her authorized agent (the carrier).  These are common courtesy steps taken every hour of every day world-wide in the shipping bidness.

 

FWIW your cases of ammo are no more governed by law than a case of missing sex toys or dildos sent to a Texas University dorm in Austin to be used by college coeds at an Anti-Gun "Cocks-Not-Glocks" Protest!  It's regarded quite simply as tangible personal property, and if you pile enough cases of either and reach a certain dollar amount, the theft rises to grand larceny.  UNLESS THE NEIGHBOR DID IT...

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Just my .02, being in online sales..
For the most part, a tracking number showed delivered is more than enough proof for any company..
Both Amazon and Paypal have refunded buyers who returned empty packages because all they care about is that the tracking # shows delivered in the same city/town as mine. I shit you not... a while on the phone did nothing, because that is all they require. Signature is not necessary to prove that you received the item, they trust UPS/FEDEX to not screw up....
So, be careful who you buy from. You got lucky this time, but the vendor could have said TOUGH LUCK once it shows delivered..

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This is becoming a very common problem with UPS. On Amazon Prime Day, my wife ordered several items that shipped from different locations. 7 of them came via UPS and one via DHL...the DHL package made it with no problem. The UPS packages showed delivered but were nowhere to be found (sound familiar?). I called Amazon and they pushed it off to UPS. UPS gave me the usual "tracking shows it was delivered, we'll look into it" line of BS. Two days later still no word from UPS so I drove to the local hub and spoke with the manager. He told m that UPS policy (unwritten, of course) is that drivers aren't allowed to return with undelivered packages so they drop them off somewhere in the general vicinity if they can't find the address. UPS corporate denies this policy of course...my next move was to call the sheriff's office to file charges against the driver for larceny since I was missing 7 packages with a total value over $1100. I couldn't file against the driver because I didn't know his name...but they let me file against the manager of the hub since he is ultimately responsible for his employees. It was pretty amazing, that evening, a sheriff's car pulled up in my driveway with the terminal manager in the back along with all of my packages, which had been delivered two streets over...to a house that's for sale and not occupied.

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Left on doorstep is NOT delivered. ...

 

Any items that I order that are of a high value, all get requested to be delivered with signature required.

 

All items I send are sent with signature required.

 

Plus if you are paying for something online....do not use debit, do not use paypal - use an actual CC. I like amex....

 

Problem? Dispute the charge and they will fight for you. Amex is best, paypal the worst.

 

Also not if you use paypal and u have a cc on file you have no recourse with the cc company as they show the payment to paypal and not then end user. ....

 

U have no obligation under the law that I know of that requires you to notify anyone other than the shipper that the package is missing..... or not delivered.

 

And the other responses are right do not create a problem for yourself by calling any PD.

I generally require signature for packages over 250$ or so.

That said, while you may feel that way, Paypal/eBay/Amazon consider that delivered. It could be delivered to ANY house in my town, and as far as they are concerned, it shows "delivered" in Avenel, NJ. Stupid, right?

Paypal has fantastic buyer protection. I've had people open cases for crap that stopped working after 6 MONTHS and paypal gave them the option of returning the item for a full refund.. I've also won a few, though.

If the buyer genuinely screwed you over, its pretty easy to get your money back after returning the product on ebay/amazon/any paypal purchase for goods.

Chargebacks are the biggest PITA in the world, as a seller. Every time eBay/Amazon side with me on a case because the guy is an idiot, they file chargebacks. Someone opened a paypal claim a week or two ago because he claims that a few parts are missing from a trimmer i sold him.... Mind you, the listing clearly states that these components are missing, nor are they pictured.

You can't fix stupid. If there is a genuine issue, however, most sellers will work with you.

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If UPS delivered the package to the wrong address then it's the shippers responsibility to file the claim with UPS, not yours. If the shipper says otherwise then I would dispute the charges. Ultimately the shipper is UPS' customer not you since the shipper payed UPS, and they should be opening the claim. When you track the package what address do they say it was delivered to? I have had similar problems with USPS where they would say it was delivered only to be actually delivered the following day, and a few times USPS said that I was not home to receive the package even when I was home all day and the package did not require a signature, I called the USPS and since then there has not been any issues.

 

As far as the driver being told that he has to deliver the package no matter what, that is BS. It could be that the local hub supervisor tells the drivers that just to avoid unloading the package car at the end of the day but that is not UPS policy and should be reported to UPS.

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You have no obligation nor responsibility.  I am actually shocked that signatures are not required for ammo.  I bet bitch Loretta does not know this.  I would have just told UPS and Freedom.  IF they did not take care of it I would just tell the Credit card company and would have gotten a refund.  Now here is the interesting thing with our stupid laws.  Had those been hollow point rounds (maybe they were) your neighbor could have likely been arrested bringing them to your home.  Gotta love New Jermany.

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Thanks for the info from everyone so far. Once again I learned more in the five minutes of reading responses than I ever could have deciphering statues, not mention a few other things to think about. As a side note, the neighbor in question, has son on the local PD who lives with him. A little bit of a timing change and I could have been dealing with one of them regardless :lol: .

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