Bully

My New Pea Shooter

118 posts in this topic

13 minutes ago, Zeke said:

I have much to learn from Topher. It’s unfortunate for him I have his number and a plethora of questions.. 

I apologize in advance!

Anytime my friend. No apologies necessary. 

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Shooting FT/R on Sunday. First time. I have 100 rounds loaded up and a ballistic chart from StrelokPro printed out. I’m hoping for the best. I haven’t had much time to practice or do any real serious load work but I think I’m in the ballpark with my current load. 

And yes, I’ve corrected right  

Here’s to hope!

2CF138C5-CA4F-4CD1-BFE9-8BDB78608D97.jpeg

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Well....

In the spirit of not leaving well enough alone, I went and changed optics.  Mounted on top WAS a Vortex Viper PST 6-24 EBR2C reticle.  Nice scope for the money and I'll probably own another one one day.  However I wanted more of an almost "TIer 1" optic while still keeping some kind of sanity.  And although guys like @Shane45, @Blake and @High Exposure may not consider it a true "Tier 1" piece of glass, for me...  it amounts to insane money and I can't believe I was able to pull it off.  

Hopefully showing up tomorrow is a NightForce NXS 8-32 MOAR.  Most likely it will rest in 4 screw NF Ultralight rings unless it fits in my Seekins.  The Seekins are most likely too low, however.  I guess we'll see.   

Yup, big magnification.  Not normally my thing.  To me, most optics with over 20x are a waste of money as the mirage can be brutal however since I will be shooting FT/R with this rifle, the option to go big was one I couldn't resist.  

Pics to follow if/when this thing shows up.  

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11 minutes ago, Shane45 said:

You will hear no complaints from me about NF! Indeed thats some mag, but I think it may be useful for they type of shooting your doing. 

Yeah.  Normally I like lower power stuff.  But trying to actually be "precise" I feel like the mag will be a benefit.  Additionally one of my buddys is running the same scope and he wins a lot.  So, in the interest of having as much advantage as possible, I went for it. 

Thanks for chiming in.  

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2 hours ago, High Exposure said:

That’s a great piece of glass Bully. 

The Vortex isn’t a bad piece either.

Well done! :good:

 

1 hour ago, Blake said:

Congrats on the pickup!

I had a NXS 5.5-22 and didn't have any complaints about it except for the SFP, which is a debate unto itself.

Best of luck with it!

Thanks gents.  

Blake, I've seen your stuff posted for sale and it's all droolworthy.  

High Exposure, thanks as well.  Always good to get professional kudos.  

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Bro, my experience lies in fighting with carbines at CQB to intermediate distances. 

For the long range game Shane45 and a couple others here are the go to guys. I’m still learning this black magic myself! :good:

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39 minutes ago, High Exposure said:

Bro, my experience lies in fighting with carbines at CQB to intermediate distances. 

For the long range game Shane45 and a couple others here are the go to guys. I’m still learning this black magic myself! :good:

Heh.  Me too...

Although the next "Black Magic" will be coming off my lathe.  I'm mentally preparing to spin my own threads/chamber.  The mental game is the most difficult to overcome.  That'll be a different thread tho.  

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9 hours ago, High Exposure said:

Can I have it?

Sure.  Bring cash...

9 hours ago, Schrödinger's cat said:

That looks amazing ! Looking forward to the next range report.

Thanks.  Getting out Monday.  

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Took the rifle out yesterday.  

To say the glass is awesome is an understatement.  It's just so crazy clear.  I was shooting at 200 with the scope on 20x and watching the bullets hit the target most shots.  

This is the part that may not be popular with some...

The scope is awesome.  I'm glad I spent the money on it and went for it.  I think that the further the distance the more it will pay off.  That said, as good as it is, I don't know that it's $1000 better than the Vortex it replaced.  I understand the law of diminishing returns when spending big money for glass.  And exactly to that point, if I wasn't competing this year, I would have happily stayed with the Vortex PST.  It shot very well to 750 and I imagine that it would do just fine at 1k.  That's me tho.  And again, I'm very happy I did it.  I'm not taking anything away from the NF, I'm just giving kudos to the Vortex at half the price.  

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Bully, an interesting experiment. Print out your statement. After a year or two behind the NF, pop back behind the PST and see if your opinion still holds. Something you can try now to get an example if what Im talking about. Take both scopes out at dusk. Pick something to focus on at distance. See which one you can no longer see the target with first as the light fades. Ive never done this with the scopes you have so I would actually be interested in the results. But generally speaking, its pretty amazing in some cases how much more time you pick up with the better scope. As your eye and experience gets used to better, you will then see the shortcomings of the PST more clearly. Color representation is another thing that at first glance you dont see. But after a while, you start to see how important it is.

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1 hour ago, Shane45 said:

Bully, an interesting experiment. Print out your statement. After a year or two behind the NF, pop back behind the PST and see if your opinion still holds. Something you can try now to get an example if what Im talking about. Take both scopes out at dusk. Pick something to focus on at distance. See which one you can no longer see the target with first as the light fades. Ive never done this with the scopes you have so I would actually be interested in the results. But generally speaking, its pretty amazing in some cases how much more time you pick up with the better scope. As your eye and experience gets used to better, you will then see the shortcomings of the PST more clearly. Color representation is another thing that at first glance you dont see. But after a while, you start to see how important it is.

If I still had the PST I would do that.  

Again, if I wasn't competing I would have stayed with the PST.  For my purposes at the time (shooting no further than 300 in daylight conditions 90% of the time) it would have served me well.  However given the vagaries of shooting a bit further with potentially inhospitable weather conditions the better glass makes sense to me.  The differences are quite subtle.  The PST is, give or take a $1000 scope.  The NF NSX is about $2000.  Glass quality is for sure better, but double?  

Construction, repeatability, and finer details make up some of the difference but the Vortex no nonsense lifetime warranty has value as well.  

All that and I'll say this:  If I can swing another NF, I will.  

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Ahhh but glass quality is but a single category right? :) Weigh this math. What is the cost of all the money spent on train up for a match, the match itself, travel, lodging, time off etc etc etc. Now all mechanical devices can fail. But do you feel more confident you wont have a tracking issue at the worst time with the Vortex or the NF? To me that added safeguard, to not waste all that expense, alone is worth the scope price differential. And I probably would have recommended keeping the Vortex as a backup scope if competing is you pursuit. But hey, I fully understand we all need to close our wallet at some point!

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^^^ This

This is where the very important distinction between best value and lowest cost come in to play.

It is like the guy that drops $2000 on a rifle and gear, $800 on tuition for a multi day class, $300 for a hotel room for 3 nights, $200 in gas, $100 in food, but buys cheap garbage ammo to save $100 and ends up missing half the class because the cheap ammo makes his gun puke.

I’ve seen it happen multiple times. All that time and money wasted, in an effort to pinch a last penny. 

I think you will find that extra $1000 for the Night Force worth every cent after using it for a year.

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5 minutes ago, Shane45 said:

Ahhh but glass quality is but a single category right? :) Weigh this math...

Other math to weigh is how much would your shooting have improved if you spent the extra $1000 on practice ammo instead of glass.

That's not an easy question to answer, and I'm certainly not pretending I know what would have been more beneficial.   But when I'm considering an upgrade to something expensive, I always ask myself what I think would  happen if I instead put the money towards more practice and more matches.

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2 hours ago, Bully said:
43 minutes ago, Shane45 said:

Ahhh but glass quality is but a single category right? :) Weigh this math. What is the cost of all the money spent on train up for a match, the match itself, travel, lodging, time off etc etc etc. Now all mechanical devices can fail. But do you feel more confident you wont have a tracking issue at the worst time with the Vortex or the NF? To me that added safeguard, to not waste all that expense, alone is worth the scope price differential. And I probably would have recommended keeping the Vortex as a backup scope if competing is you pursuit. But hey, I fully understand we all need to close our wallet at some point!

 

37 minutes ago, High Exposure said:

^^^ This

This is where the very important distinction between best value and lowest cost come in to play.

It is like the guy that drops $2000 on a rifle and gear, $800 on tuition for a multi day class, $300 for a hotel room for 3 nights, $200 in gas, $100 in food, but buys cheap garbage ammo to save $100 and ends up missing half the class because the cheap ammo makes his gun puke.

I’ve seen it happen multiple times. All that time and money wasted, in an effort to pinch a last penny. 

I think you will find that extra $1000 for the Night Force worth every cent after using it for a year.

Construction, repeatability, and finer details make up some of the difference but the Vortex no nonsense lifetime warranty has value as well.  

All that and I'll say this:  If I can swing another NF, I will.  

@High Exposure and @Shane45 The last 2 sentences of my summation pretty much mirror your thoughts.   

If I wasn't competing I would have stuck happily with the Vortex.  If it died at the range, I'm a member so no real loss as far as money.  Just a bit of fuel and some time.  But as someone looking to start competing (if I can ever get a corresponding Sunday lined up) I want any and all advantages I can muster.  

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I think all points made here have merit. And as I always say, finding the right balance is key. And this is why I tell people, be very sure you want to pursue LR shooting because its a fairly deep rabbit hole. But somewhat in the same vein of 10x's point, it dont matter if you give me Tiger Woods personal golf clubs, its not going to improve MY game at all. So you have to put in the work. So everyone has to weigh their own resources and find that balance accordingly. If you spend so much on equipment you cant afford the club membership to practice, it wasn't a good balance. Most equipment has standouts at certain price points. Bully I think you have hit on two. The PST was a good value at its price point and I think you have landed there again on the NF at the next tier up. But Im sure you could give Shannon Kay a stock Tika and a bushnell (solid performing entry level pieces) and he would kick my ass all day long no matter what I had. But all variables weighed and considered, buying the best you can afford within reason and balance seems to end up being a better deal as there is so much false economics in inferior equipment. Good discussion gents!

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1 hour ago, 10X said:

Other math to weigh is how much would your shooting have improved if you spent the extra $1000 on practice ammo instead of glass.

There is iron in your words.

Nice glass and appropriate magnification don’t make you shoot any better. They only help you see better.

If you can’t shoot for shit, all the 24x magnification, German glass, and expensive tubes and controls in the world will do, is help you see your misses better that before.

That being said, there comes a time when you can outshoot your equipment, and an upgrade in your gear can make or break a shooting season.

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21 minutes ago, Zeke said:

@Bully doesn’t sound like buyers remorse. More like buyers guilt. Enjoy it. This stuff is supposed to last forever.

No remorse or guilt.  I'm very happy with my decision and I work hard to buy the things I have.  I'm comfortable with it.  Just simply making comparisons is all.  

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37 minutes ago, Bully said:

No remorse or guilt.  I'm very happy with my decision and I work hard to buy the things I have.  I'm comfortable with it.  Just simply making comparisons is all.  

Understood , and thank you for comparison 

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