Zell959

Found the same link and will listen to after work. Looks like the complete discussion would remain available for at least a short period of time after they're done: http://www.njleg.sta.../live_audio.asp What I'm really curious about is overall tone of the discussion. While it's good if they acknowledged the problems with wording, I'm gonna be pretty annoyed [but not surprised] if the discussion is more like 'this needs some work before we push to have it passed, as we're already going to propose something like this no matter what'

Don't think our paths crossed because my buddies & I were towards the right side.

That's usually when I shoot on Suns as well, and I was def there yesterday when Steve had to step in. Didn't hear all of it, but he seemed to go relatively easy on them and favored diplomacy. I overheard something to the effect of "Probably not a good idea to shoot it if you're not familiar with it.".

Exactly. Locally, this stuff is our battle to win or lose. But the NRA's efforts elsewhere have improved the rights of gun owners in many other states. That establishes what I might call an 'improved national average' for the 2nd amendment rights of US citizens and makes the stance taken by the left-dominated NJ legislature much more vulnerable to challenges (that are elevated to the federal level, at least).

That's funny, I believe I know the two groups you're referring two, as I think I was there for both of them as well. Didn't actually get a look at what the poorly handled & high recoil toy in question was yesterday, but I remember the guys with the .50AE desert eagle a few months back (unless guys with overpowered guns they can't control is even more common than I realize).

The general rule of thumb I recall from my own membership meeting on rapid fire was that you would generally be ok if you're hitting what you're shooting at, so accurate double/tripple taps are generally acceptable. I think their general priority with that rule is keeping the clueless in check. That said, it's always at the discretion of the R.O. and they do sometimes utilize volunteers to help out, who can be more of a mixed bag with enforcement and rule interpretation.

Yup. I have two friends who have been lucky enough to get invited to shoot there, but the answer is always the same on trying to join. Don't even try. Just isn't gonna happen. Etc.

You're correct, but I think something garnering backlash before they even move forward on proposing it has the potential to make an even stronger statement. The long term ideal would be that even discussing this kind of legislation would come to be viewed as a political liability. At least, that's the dream...

Man, what is it with shotgun + HD defense threads on gunboards... Anyway, in terms of a semi-auto for HD, I'm inclined to believe that the chance of a mechanical failure in a high quality semi loaded with high quality ammo is probably pretty low. I would even go so far as to say that it's lower than the probablility that a potential user might short stroke a pump action shotun while frightened, as has already been suggested. However, I think the pump wins for most users because the cost to get a pump shotgun you can trust should be significantly lower than the cost of buying a trustworthy semi-auto [+ all the extra ammo needed to thoroughly test that it iscycling reliably].

Similar letter sent out to all 11, although 1 bounced back to me with a failure to deliver for some reason. EDIT: Read the thread & see others had the same issue.

On the whole, did you walk away "sold" on their chances of delivering the product as they describe it? I read one account where someone who had a chance to shoot some rounds got the feeling that each of the rounds provided was custom built for the weapons they were fired out of, so it wasn't really a demonstration of what can be expected when they [presumably] shift to large scale production.

I had the same thought. The officer that deplyed the taser unsuccessfully seemed to make it a point to keep inching towards the moving perp while he was looking down at his belt/gear. He may have thought that the window smasher wasn't likely to move in his direction/attack. Probably a really easy mistake to make in a tense situation like that. Really an amazing job by his partner to watch his back despite the handicap of also handling the dog.

Items I'm lusting after & might be buying this year if not for the poor outlook for bonuses . Remington 700 Target Tactical in .308 S&W 351PD Trijicon Accupoint 5-20 X 50 scope Items that I admire, but would probably never actually buy due to inherrent impracticality [for me] DTA SRS rifle in .308 w/ .338 Lapua conversion kit Noveske Lo-Pro in .300 BLK Rifle chambered in 7mm-08 Springfield M1A1 Socom

This suggestion didn't really catch on in the discussions so far, but I'm not seeing any legal issues with using a blow gun on your own property. It's one of those things that so simple in design, I can't imagine how they'd ban them. Also deals with the noise matter if someone makes the decision to go with a somewhat 'borderline' pest control solution.

Accountability absolutely exists, but the things for which a law enforcement officer might be potentially held "accountable" are hopelessly a** backwards. The NYPD leadership doesn't get called out enough for their treatment of 2nd amendment rights & the rights of law abiding citizens, but just about any altercation between an NYPD officer and someone doing something blatantly illegal will usually end with one or more "community leaders" calling for the officer's job and/or ruining their lives in a variety of unjustified ways [usually with the full support of the Mayor's office].

Didn't occur to me how limited my rifle shooting experience has been till I thought my answer to this thread. If shotgun slugs count, 12guage slugs out of my 20" mossberg 500a take it for both projectile size & recoil If not, a .50cal muzzle loader is the largest caliber, but the recoil wasn't even on part with heavy hunting loads through a .30-30 lever action.

I kind of feel like a company that REALLY understood how unacceptable that behavior is would have offered you more than an apology. It wouldn't of cost them much to offer you some of the .22 you originally ordered free of charge. But they didn't. You endured awful service and they want you to take their word for it that "Doug" will be disciplined. Also, how shocked can Diana really be at the treatment you recieved when she took it upon herself to offer the following gem in response to a negative review on resellerratings.com: "“Dear James, Your order was voided due to the fact that you have ordered items that were out of stock. Also, we did not charge your Credit Card, Authorization is not a charge. Lastly, we do not wish to deal with customers like yourself. Best Regards, Diana Delmic TargetSportsUSA.com” For the time being, I think I'm done with this company.

Realistically speaking though, is it really such a 50/50 game that deep into the discussion in most cases? I'm inclined to say no. Assholes generally aren't very good at hiding the fact that they're assholes. That includes cops. It shouldn't be to hard to get a sense of what kind of officer you're interacting with right from the start. Unless you're impaired, most should be able to tell the difference between an officer just looking to do their job [who have generally been the majority in my experience] & a state-sponsored bully who thinks their badge makes them a demi-god. Think back to the difficult officers [i would assume that] you've encountered. Didn't you pretty much know they had every intention of giving you a hard time almost instantly? I can't imagine they opened the conversation with a particularly warm greeting or had much time for small talk if all of their energy was focused on reminding you who was in charge every 4 seconds.

This tempered element of your point of view didn't come across fully in your first post. You mentioned that you would have "verified the firearm was legal" and if the home owner didn't have his papers you would "check back at HQ". Viewed infront of a backdrop of perpetual frustration with how gun owner's tend to be treated in this state, I think many [including myself to an extent] took your post to mean that you consider mere gun ownership as warranting suspicion & further investigation of any party failing to produce proof of lawful purchase/ownership on the spot, hence the negative feedback. You've since clarified yourself a bit and I do get where you're coming from. You're not looking to violate anyone's rights, but at the end of the day you're still just a guy doing a job. Like most people, you have your beliefs, but still can't afford to put your job in jepordy over pure idealism. I get that, and I think others do as well, but we can't help but still feel frustration with the standard operating procedures pushed by police leadership in situations such as the OP's.

http://www.hodgdon.com/new_prod.html Sounds great [in theory]. Anyone had a chance to try this stuff out?

I share your feelings and wasn't particularly happy when I first read about it. But, at the same time, I must conceed that the list of planned upgrades put on the forum is pretty long and includes some upgrades I'd really get some use out off. Plus, the vending machine & range store were things I always wanted them to have, so it's really nice to see those improvements have already been executed. So, for the time being I've electing to view the increase as "worth it", provided that the majority of planned improvements [that I care about ] are ultimately completed in the not-too-distant future.

80% of the time, I'm heading to the range with my primary shooting buddy and we each have 1-2 firearms we're looking to practice some relatively specific things with. Practicing a F.A.S.T. drill with our primary handgun, test how our newest rifle reload groups, hit some clays, etc. The remaining 20% of the time, we're in a group of more like 5-7 with everyone bringing every single gun they own. I get very little 'productive' practice on days like this and I would be a really poor shooter if all of my range trips were like this, but they're the range days I look forward to most.

To each their own & all that, but I'm surprised how many actually seem to enjoy the cleanings. I sometimes enjoy it when I first get a firearm, but after than it really just become a necessary evil and I really only do a thorough barrel cleaning with my AR that I often shoot with accuracy in mind. I pretty much refuse to clean my shotgun outside of an external wipedown at this point, because it's a pain to take appart & reassemble and I never really find all that much gunk, so it always feels sort of uneccesary.

I have a Henry Mare's Leg in .22 that's comparable from a characteristics standpoint. Totally jersey legal. provided you have a spare pistol permit to put towards purchasing it.

I got really confused about what you meant until I reread my original word choice. I put in a request for a change of address on my FID as well as a request for 2 new pistol permits, as I did not have any. But, even if I did have permits at the time, I think everything would have been officially useless when I got my DL changed, permits included.