What should we expect........

[Mr.Stu 1,922]

1 minute ago, xXxplosive said:

CCW police response in Walmart, Kearney NJ.

Discussion / Off-topic

I went to Walmart today, Tuesday, around 8pm to pick up some baby formula. I'm just looking around the place and i see an older black man and his wife with a cart and i see he has a pistol in holster on his hip. I look and I'm thinking ah nice he's probably ex detective or proud CCW holder. Thought nothing else of it and kept on. Purchased my stuff and as im heading to the door i see about 3 Emergency Response officers with seemed like managers, then saw a couple other officers with shields then another couple officers with AR's coming in. I overheard one of them tell the receipt checker at the door close the doors no one else in or out till we tell you. I was d last one out. I was looking back inside after i was out the doors, and sure enough, the officers were surrounding the old couple and the wife was yelling at the officers, "WTF HE HAS A CCW PERMIT WTF ARE YOU ALL DOING", all the while they were grabbing the older guys gun and subduing him. SMH, some ignorant asshole prob called the cops on this older black gentleman just cuz he had a pistol on his hip minding his own while shopping.

Remember this one........I dunno.

A PCH does not allow you to open carry so the guy was in the wrong.

It does seem the response was over the top too. If you were up to no good, would you really open carry while you did your grocery shopping?

Where did this report come from?

[father-of-three 243]

1 hour ago, revenger said:

lawsuits should be filed on this.

you should not have to disclose ANYTHING or surrender your rights.     where your coming from, where your going, what are you doing?

do you have any weapons, cannons, hand grenades aircraft carriers........   all designed and taught to them to catch you in a lie for further investigation.

the FIRST and ONLY words out of cops mouth when he pulls you over while driving is:  " the reason I stopped you is because"   and than provide your documents for the car and take your lumps if there is a 

https://legalheat.com/blog/concealed-carry-police-encounters-a-state-by-state-legal-guide/

I found a few articles about duty to inform, with this one being the most accurate.  Ironically neither artcle i saw listed New Jersey on the duty to inform list.

[xXxplosive 824]

I remember seeing this on the local news a while back....... I dunno.

[Grima Squeakersen 482]

On 2/11/2024 at 9:47 AM, maintenanceguy said:

I will probably not disclose unless it's a situation where disclosure is required.  Concealed means concealed and why created problems?

The rule is you must disclose if you are stopped or detained.

2C:58-4.4

b. The holder of a permit to carry a handgun issued pursuant to N.J.S.2C:58-4, if stopped or detained by a law enforcement officer while carrying a handgun in public or traveling with a handgun in a motor vehicle, shall:

(1) immediately disclose to the law enforcement officer that they are carrying a handgun or that a handgun is stored in the vehicle; and

(2) display the permit to carry a handgun issued pursuant to N.J.S.2C:58-4.

A violation of paragraph (1) of this section shall be a crime of the fourth degree. A person who violates paragraph (2) of this subsection shall be guilty of a disorderly persons offense for a first offense and subject to a $100 fine and a crime of the fourth degree for a second or subsequent offense.

c. A holder of a permit to carry a handgun issued pursuant to N.J.S.2C:58-4 who is carrying a handgun in public and is detained by a law enforcement officer as part of a criminal investigation shall provide the handgun to the law enforcement officer upon request for purposes of inspecting the handgun. The provisions of this subsection shall not be construed to affect or otherwise limit the authority of a law enforcement officer to conduct a lawful search or seizure.

A violation of this subsection shall be a crime of the fourth degree.

 

I don't disagree, but is there a current, binding legal definition of the terms "stopped and detained" that would unambiguously apply in all situations in NJ? Such as "stopped" meaning pulled over while driving, and/or "detained" requiring the LEO to inform you that he has detained you, in exactly those words? Otherwise, I can see a strong probability that some NJ PtC holder will ultimately need to establish those definitions through his defense attorney...

[Grima Squeakersen 482]

56 minutes ago, xXxplosive said:

CCW police response in Walmart, Kearney NJ.

Discussion / Off-topic

I went to Walmart today, Tuesday, around 8pm to pick up some baby formula. I'm just looking around the place and i see an older black man and his wife with a cart and i see he has a pistol in holster on his hip. I look and I'm thinking ah nice he's probably ex detective or proud CCW holder. Thought nothing else of it and kept on. Purchased my stuff and as im heading to the door i see about 3 Emergency Response officers with seemed like managers, then saw a couple other officers with shields then another couple officers with AR's coming in. I overheard one of them tell the receipt checker at the door close the doors no one else in or out till we tell you. I was d last one out. I was looking back inside after i was out the doors, and sure enough, the officers were surrounding the old couple and the wife was yelling at the officers, "WTF HE HAS A CCW PERMIT WTF ARE YOU ALL DOING", all the while they were grabbing the older guys gun and subduing him. SMH, some ignorant asshole prob called the cops on this older black gentleman just cuz he had a pistol on his hip minding his own while shopping.

Remember this one........I dunno.

Seems like massive overkill, but it also seems like he should have done a better job of concealment. I'm pretty sure the current NJ law allows for "inadvertant disclosure" or some similar phrase, but your description makes it sound like it was right out in the open. And who knows how whoever called it in characterized it? Did that person call 911 and say something like "Oh my God!!! I'm shopping in Walmart and there is a threatening looking black guy here brandishing a handgun at everyone!!!" or words to that effect? Also, are you certain he was not a cop or someone else entitled to carry openly? If someone in the store called 911, unless the arriving cops knew the guy personally, they would need to ascertain that, and they aren't going to do that without first taking precautions. I carry in Walmart, but I make damned sure my gun will remain completely concealed even when I do something like bend down to grab a big flat of bottled water off the floor.

[1LtCAP 4,264]

2 hours ago, xXxplosive said:

CCW police response in Walmart, Kearney NJ.

Discussion / Off-topic

I went to Walmart today, Tuesday, around 8pm to pick up some baby formula. I'm just looking around the place and i see an older black man and his wife with a cart and i see he has a pistol in holster on his hip. I look and I'm thinking ah nice he's probably ex detective or proud CCW holder. Thought nothing else of it and kept on. Purchased my stuff and as im heading to the door i see about 3 Emergency Response officers with seemed like managers, then saw a couple other officers with shields then another couple officers with AR's coming in. I overheard one of them tell the receipt checker at the door close the doors no one else in or out till we tell you. I was d last one out. I was looking back inside after i was out the doors, and sure enough, the officers were surrounding the old couple and the wife was yelling at the officers, "WTF HE HAS A CCW PERMIT WTF ARE YOU ALL DOING", all the while they were grabbing the older guys gun and subduing him. SMH, some ignorant asshole prob called the cops on this older black gentleman just cuz he had a pistol on his hip minding his own while shopping.

Remember this one........I dunno.

hopefully he sues the snot outta the dept, and every single officer that was involved in that harassment. personally and professionally. if ignorance of the law is no excuse for us, it's no excuse for them either.

[Cheflife15 455]

6 hours ago, revenger said:

lawsuits should be filed on this.

you should not have to disclose ANYTHING or surrender your rights.     where your coming from, where your going, what are you doing?

do you have any weapons, cannons, hand grenades aircraft carriers........   all designed and taught to them to catch you in a lie for further investigation.

the FIRST and ONLY words out of cops mouth when he pulls you over while driving is:  " the reason I stopped you is because"   and than provide your documents for the car and take your lumps if there is a violation.

You don't have to answer alot of those questions. You can just hand them your paperwork. I'm not saying that won't bruise an ego though. 

It's unfortunate cops don't have to inform you on why you're pulled over either. 

 

[Cheflife15 455]

4 hours ago, Grima Squeakersen said:

I don't disagree, but is there a current, binding legal definition of the terms "stopped and detained" that would unambiguously apply in all situations in NJ? Such as "stopped" meaning pulled over while driving, and/or "detained" requiring the LEO to inform you that he has detained you, in exactly those words? Otherwise, I can see a strong probability that some NJ PtC holder will ultimately need to establish those definitions through his defense attorney...

When you are stopped on a traffic stop you are detained. To be detained, all you need is reasonable articuble suspicion. If it's a legal stop (the cop has reasonable suspicion of a crime) then you are indeed detained. If you asked an officer if you are detained with the flashing lights on behind you,  he will 100 percent say yes. 

[maintenanceguy 510]

About the older black guy open carrying in Walmart: 

I'm good with it but NJ law is not (shocker). 

2C:58-4 a.
...shall not be construed to authorize a holder to carry a handgun openly, provided that a brief, incidental exposure of a handgun while transferring it to or from a holster or due to the shifting of the person's body position or clothing shall be deemed a de minimis infraction within the contemplation of...

De minimis only means that the judge has the OPTION to throw out charges when you go to court.  You can be charged be charged and convicted of a crime unless the judge exercises the option to throw out charges.  A De minimis infraction is the same violation of the law as if your actions were intentional.

 

 

[kirk2022 43]

Post states Carrying a pistol in a holster on his hip.     Question, Was he proudly open carrying?

If so, then all questions go out the window, he was breaking the law! Which resulted in a direct response.      PSA, Off duty officers carry concealed, plain clothes officers on the job open carry duty weapons with the badge clearly displayed.     Just my thoughts on this post, knowing from experience.