Looking for an AR - too many manufacturers to choose from

[cold shot 1]

I think I am ready to get a flattop AR, possibly with quad rail, carbine,etc and am thoroughly confused of who/what to purchase. Do I stick with the well known quality manufacturers like Bushmaster, Armalite, S&W M&P or are there others that I should consider. Wanted to start out with one that I can accessorize over time.

 

Also, What gun store in NJ has a good selection/good price in stock that I can walk in and touch and feel them ?

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Cabelas's in Hamburg has a good selection of AR's. But you have to make sure that it's Jersey compliant. There are literaly dozen's of AR makers and more coming out every month. Good luck.

[bbk 188]

If you want to start at the top, you might have to consider getting an AR, and possibly sending it to ADCO or someone who can NJ-legal it for you. Personally, to me the top brands are Noveske and Daniel Defense. Caine has a DD that is pretty darn nice. Otherwise, there is a great sticky somewhere on this forum that links to another forum who breaks down the different manufacturers very well.

http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81462 is that link actually.

Aside from the ones you listed, I know DPMS is another excellent, cheap system that you can build on. And honestly, almost every brand makes an NJ legal flat top model it seems.

[AntZ 1]

If you have time, read this long lasting thread http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b ... 8&t=360169

and it will give you a good idea what to get.

[AntZ 1]

and bullethole has 6 or 7 ARs in stock as a local store.

[rscalzo 3]

I stopped into one of our larger stores up here. They had over 20 new AR's on the racks along with the used. Looks like the rush is over.

[Guest]

NOT the top end by far but my S&W M&P 15 is decent.... and should be relatively affordable..

[Ray Ray 3,566]

I went with a Stag Arms. For the simple fact that it's made for the lefty's out there like me.

[Caine 147]

As bbk stated above, I found something I liked and had it modified by ADCO to make it NJ legal. Was this the easiest or cheapest way to get an AR? Definitely not. But, I got exactly what I wanted, and nothing I didn't.

 

There are so many ARs out there these days that it really comes down to the individual to do the research to figure out what they need in an AR. Are you going to put a couple hundred rounds thru it per year? Or take a class where you'll shoot 1000 rounds in one day? Will you only shoot .223? Or will you also shoot 5.56? Some manufacturers say their ARs are chambered for 5.56 but in reality are chambered in .223 and have problems handling 5.56. Do you care if the gas key is properly staked? How 'bout the castle nut? There are so many little details when it comes to ARs that after a while your head starts to spin. But if you do your homework before hand, you'll have a better understanding of what your needs are.

 

The link bbk posted above has a lot of good info to point you in the right direction. Another good reference is "the chart": http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=6642 Once you have a little better understanding of some of the components in an AR, "the chart" will make more sense. It's not the be all end all reference, but it does simplify looking up some features.

 

Anyway, I'm starting to ramble again... in a nutshell, there are a ton of options out there. As long as you stay away from some of the really low end companies like Olympic Arms, you should be fine. S&W is making some really good ARs for the price. Daniel Defense may be the best bang for the buck on the high end side. Can't go wrong with Colt. If you have the money, Noveske is hard to beat. I've read too many bad things about DPMS and would skip them unless you wanna do an AR10/.308 system. Bushmaster seems to be hit or miss with specs. Stag seems to be ok for the price. Rock River is ok, but I'd stay away from a 2 stage trigger. LMTs are excellent, altho there has been some talk recently of them switching over to some lower end components. I haven't kept up with that discussion to find out what the final outcome was. Then there's the whole mid-length vs. carbine length. Not to mention piston vs. direct impingement. Confused yet?

[bbk 188]

Caine is right on the DPMS, my apologies. I have heard it is hit or miss with them too, but I've also been reading a lot lately that they are using lower quality components (in order to keep up with the demand), or not treating the metal correctly-- or something along those lines. I think a good starting platform for a decent price is the Colt Match Target M4. Looking back, I should have gone this way (though I'm still very much happy with my MP15). When I asked the vendors, they all priced it around 1200$ (thank you again for the quotes!). I know someone on the forum JUST got one (so, feel free to insert your own input!). Personally, I've already started saving up for a Noveske complete upper (probably go with a CMMG/LMT/YHM lower).

 

I do have a follow up question though. What makes the stainless steel barrels that much better? Does it have to do with keeping the barrel from not getting to hot so it doesn't effect accuracy after xxxx rounds? With that, I want my next rifle to have a 1:7 (so I can handle the 62gr better if I choose too), but I have noticed the stainless steel barrels are commonly 1:8, any reason for this? And last, what is your take on the rise of the gas piston rifles? I am not totally familiar with the differences between gas pistons and direct impingement. I know it (gas piston rifle systems, like the Sig556, FAL, SCAR) keeps the rifle cooler, and in turns does not wear it down as quickly.

[Caine 147]

I'm no expert, but this is my understanding from the research I have done: Stainless barrels have a SLIGHTLY shorter life span than the standard chrome lined barrels in regard to rounds thru the barrel, but, are in turn, more accurate because of the added weight and the lack the chrome lining. Stainless barrels also require a break in process, and are slightly harder to keep clean. More often than not, you find stainless barrels on match/target rifles.

Regarding the twist... this is how I understand it:

1:7 - good for heavier/longer bullets: 75 & 77gr bullets - will handle anything from 55-77gr tho - considered "milspec"

1:9 - good for lighter bullets: 69gr or less. found in most "commercial" barrels

1:8 - seems to be able to handle most weights.

Truthfully, I see 1:8 barrels listed so infrequently, that I don't know too much about them, but on paper, it would seem to be the best all around twist. That said, 1:9 will handle 62gr perfectly.

 

Gas piston guns seem to be good for people that don't clean their guns often. There's a video somewhere on this site of a test HK did with some dude that submerged an HK416 under water, pulled it out, and fired a couple clips thru it. The DI gun went KA-BOOM when he tried the same thing. But, in a nutshell, the gas guns seem to have less carbon build up on the internals, which in turn, keeps the guns running longer and cooler if you're in an environment where taking the gun apart to clean it might not be an option (i.e. the middle east where it's very sandy and you may be in the middle of a prolonged engagement). At this point, I think gas piston guns are more of a novelty than a necessity for the average person. That's not to say I would pass on one if it came up at a good price, but more like I wouldn't go out of my way to look for one. But, much like the 1:8, it's not something I've actively researched to know a whole lot about them.

 

One last thing I forgot to mention in my earlier post about manufacturers. BCM - if I had to pick up an AR today, I would probably do my best to find a BCM lower and a BCM mid-length upper (they dont sell complete rifles to my knowledge). They're super hard to find because they sell out the minute the become available, but from everything I've read, they are a great bargain for what you get.

[bbk 188]

Great, thanks for that writeup. I remember the thread where somebody posted the HK vid comparing the different systems, and I agree that it is more of a novelty at this point. I was just curious because I'm considering allocating some funds to make an NJ compliant (of course!) Mk12 frankengun.

[singh073 0]

I am looking to purchase my first AR as well and all this info has my head spinning. :shock:

[Caine 147]

An MK12 would be sweet! I love SPR type ARs! But the MK12 isn't a gas piston gun is it? Or am I thinking of a diff gun?

[Caine 147]

I am looking to purchase my first AR as well and all this info has my head spinning. :shock:

 

It's a lot of stuff to digest. Go thru some of the links posted here.. they do a better job of explaining the intricacies of an AR than I ever can.

[BCeagle 12]

I am looking to purchase my first AR as well and all this info has my head spinning. :shock:

 

I'll second that, if I can find a decent one for 800 I would be all over it. (and would have to hide it from my wife)

[singh073 0]

I decided to go with the SIG 556. Solid Company, Solid Firearms.. Its a bit pricey but worth the price. Plus I was looking for a 5.56 NATO Chambered Rifle.

[bbk 188]

I decided to go with the SIG 556. Solid Company, Solid Firearms.. Its a bit pricey but worth the price. Plus I was looking for a 5.56 NATO Chambered Rifle.

Nice selection. I am considering that as my primary rifle (and use my MP15 as my backup) down the road (along with the Colt Match Target, or just building one). Sigs also are gas piston systems, and are more efficient (I believe all Sigs are gas pistons)... so, enjoy not having as dirty of a rifle after a day at the range . Plus, the rail systems they have on those beasts are nice. My only gripe (and a small one) is get use to the weight; those suckers are heavy before you start lego'ing them. But that's a moot point once you're use to it. Enjoy man, and update us with pics and a range report when you can!

[cvc14 0]

I went with a Stag Arms. For the simple fact that it's made for the lefty's out there like me.

 

I am currently looking at a Stag Arms lower to build out. How do you like your Stag Arms? I am not getting a lefty like you but how was fit and finish?

[rscalzo 3]

I see 1:8 barrels listed so infrequently, that I don't know too much about them

 

Rock river uses them for the NM and other match rifles. They also list one 1:7 as an option.

[njpilot 671]

I went with a Stag Arms. For the simple fact that it's made for the lefty's out there like me.

 

I am currently looking at a Stag Arms lower to build out. How do you like your Stag Arms? I am not getting a lefty like you but how was fit and finish?

 

cvc,

 

I bought a Stag Model 1 a few months ago. Only shot it twice, about 250 rounds through it. Performed flawlessly. Unfortunately the finish on the lower was pretty bad, couldn't get it to look good, so I sent it back. They told me up to 8 weeks to remanufacture the lower with the same serial number. 9 weeks later and it arrived Friday evening. Looks much better.

 

I was told that they had a problem with the anodizing procedure and have changed it as well as fixed their quality control issue.

 

Just so you know, in 2 different stores in PA a month or so ago I saw a new Stag with a lousey finish and there was a post on ARFCOM about it.

 

Hopefully the problem is fixed.

Good luck.

[cvc14 0]

I went with a Stag Arms. For the simple fact that it's made for the lefty's out there like me.

 

I am currently looking at a Stag Arms lower to build out. How do you like your Stag Arms? I am not getting a lefty like you but how was fit and finish?

 

cvc,

 

I bought a Stag Model 1 a few months ago. Only shot it twice, about 250 rounds through it. Performed flawlessly. Unfortunately the finish on the lower was pretty bad, couldn't get it to look good, so I sent it back. They told me up to 8 weeks to remanufacture the lower with the same serial number. 9 weeks later and it arrived Friday evening. Looks much better.

 

I was told that they had a problem with the anodizing procedure and have changed it as well as fixed their quality control issue.

 

Just so you know, in 2 different stores in PA a month or so ago I saw a new Stag with a lousey finish and there was a post on ARFCOM about it.

 

Hopefully the problem is fixed.

Good luck.

 

Thanks for the info. I was just talking with PK90 about the lower and getting a price from him. Now do I chance it or do I pick another lower? OPTIONS OPTIONS OPTIONS.