... State Police at it again.. the "Administrative Code"

[FFDP82 4]

From the ANJRPC.ORG website.

For a gun rights organization, they sure have some shitty talking points. Their numbers about gun owners don't even convince a gun owner! Looks to me like they are inflating statistics by taking the national average of gun ownership and applying it equally to NJ, as if we do not have laws in place that keep some of the population from even being aware you can own guns. I'd expect nothing less from those clowns.

 

As for the rest, I agree with you on that. If the legislature doesn't want to fix things, the courts will. The lawsuits in MD and NY against may-issue will be very telling.

[Guest]

The NY and MD lawsuits are tests for NJ.

The ANJRPC is behind many lawsuits against the state. They help us. Now we have the court on our side, its like death by a thousand cuts, many lawsuits filed my many citizens, each picking a piece of law off like bottles on a fence with a .45.

 

First someone applies for CCW, gets denied, sues.

Then, we sue over admin code quirks that outlaw the use of rifles by people under 21 due to the fact that ammo is not legal for them to buy.

Then someone sues over one gun a month, then someone sues over no more CMP shipments...all of these things and more I am sure will lead at least 2 smart NJ lawyers to begin challenges to the laws that are offensive to our rights.

The state would go broke, because they would at least have to show up and defend the state's position.

You also have to be very careful, because a wrong move can set back precedent, but I would defer to the smart NJ lawyers who are fed up and want to help...

[FFDP82 4]

The NY and MD lawsuits are tests for NJ.

The ANJRPC is behind many lawsuits against the state. They help us. Now we have the court on our side, its like death by a thousand cuts, many lawsuits filed my many citizens, each picking a piece of law off like bottles on a fence with a .45.

 

First someone applies for CCW, gets denied, sues.

Then, we sue over admin code quirks that outlaw the use of rifles by people under 21 due to the fact that ammo is not legal for them to buy.

Then someone sues over one gun a month, then someone sues over no more CMP shipments...all of these things and more I am sure will lead at least 2 smart NJ lawyers to begin challenges to the laws that are offensive to our rights.

The state would go broke, because they would at least have to show up and defend the state's position.

You also have to be very careful, because a wrong move can set back precedent, but I would defer to the smart NJ lawyers who are fed up and want to help...

 

You're preaching to the choir, bud

[Bob B 103]

The NY and MD lawsuits are tests for NJ.

The ANJRPC is behind many lawsuits against the state. They help us. Now we have the court on our side, its like death by a thousand cuts, many lawsuits filed my many citizens, each picking a piece of law off like bottles on a fence with a .45.

 

First someone applies for CCW, gets denied, sues.

Then, we sue over admin code quirks that outlaw the use of rifles by people under 21 due to the fact that ammo is not legal for them to buy.

Then someone sues over one gun a month, then someone sues over no more CMP shipments...all of these things and more I am sure will lead at least 2 smart NJ lawyers to begin challenges to the laws that are offensive to our rights.

The state would go broke, because they would at least have to show up and defend the state's position.

You also have to be very careful, because a wrong move can set back precedent, but I would defer to the smart NJ lawyers who are fed up and want to help...

 

Remember... If we do nothing, the precedent will be determined in criminal cases where defense attorneys will try anything to get a couple years off their client's sentence. That is were the real danger is.

[BRaptor 68]

^^ Agreed, if you want it, you gotta fight for it.

[wsl 2]

Criminal cases won't set precedent for the type of litigation that would effect us. If anything, it would only strengthen the fact that the laws hurt law abiding citizens more than criminals. More criminal charges just make things easier for us because they can see that the measures already in place don't effect criminals at all.

 

NJ is special. But cases in California, Iowa, Maryland, Minnesota, and New York all have special signifigance for us because like NJ, none of those states have the 2a in their state constitutions. NJ even goes as far as having the firearm section as a subsection of the criminal code, where owning firearms is illegal, and then the legality is granted via exceptions. Now that McDonald pushed the 2a to every state, you could argue that our entire firearm section is unconstitutional. Much to big a case to go at right away. The existing cases in California are much further along already, so we have to wait for those to play out. And the Case in NY is a better case because of the makeup of the court. I'd have to double check, but I believe its more even than ours, at least until Christie gets his appointment on.

 

Patience is key.

[KpdPipes 388]

The NY and MD lawsuits are tests for NJ.

The ANJRPC is behind many lawsuits against the state. They help us. Now we have the court on our side, its like death by a thousand cuts, many lawsuits filed my many citizens, each picking a piece of law off like bottles on a fence with a .45.

 

First someone applies for CCW, gets denied, sues.

Then, we sue over admin code quirks that outlaw the use of rifles by people under 21 due to the fact that ammo is not legal for them to buy.

Then someone sues over one gun a month, then someone sues over no more CMP shipments...all of these things and more I am sure will lead at least 2 smart NJ lawyers to begin challenges to the laws that are offensive to our rights.

The state would go broke, because they would at least have to show up and defend the state's position.

You also have to be very careful, because a wrong move can set back precedent, but I would defer to the smart NJ lawyers who are fed up and want to help...

 

No, they wont..they dont care because it's OUR money. Remember we have to hire ttorneys at hundreds of dollars an hour..the state has theirs working on a salary......hundreds, if not thousands of them

[Guest]

The NY and MD lawsuits are tests for NJ.

The ANJRPC is behind many lawsuits against the state. They help us. Now we have the court on our side, its like death by a thousand cuts, many lawsuits filed my many citizens, each picking a piece of law off like bottles on a fence with a .45.

 

First someone applies for CCW, gets denied, sues.

Then, we sue over admin code quirks that outlaw the use of rifles by people under 21 due to the fact that ammo is not legal for them to buy.

Then someone sues over one gun a month, then someone sues over no more CMP shipments...all of these things and more I am sure will lead at least 2 smart NJ lawyers to begin challenges to the laws that are offensive to our rights.

The state would go broke, because they would at least have to show up and defend the state's position.

You also have to be very careful, because a wrong move can set back precedent, but I would defer to the smart NJ lawyers who are fed up and want to help...

 

No, they wont..they dont care because it's OUR money. Remember we have to hire ttorneys at hundreds of dollars an hour..the state has theirs working on a salary......hundreds, if not thousands of them

 

Well then I say lets put those state workers to work! They will lose, the law is on our side and most of NJ gun law can be challenged effectively.

[Genewarper111 18]

Megaman, wsl and smitty are right. We need a focused, targetted, PATIENT approach. The huge difference between the administrative code and the statute tells us exactly what approach we have to deal with. We can't let this go.

 

G

[PK90 3,573]

The correct remedy is to file a Petition for Rules Change to change the Administrative Code. I did so on July 16th as a citizen that does not want to provide my personal information in order to exercise my 2A right of self-defense.

 

They have to respond by Sep 15th. We'll see what happens.

Any word yet?

[Bob B 103]

The correct remedy is to file a Petition for Rules Change to change the Administrative Code. I did so on July 16th as a citizen that does not want to provide my personal information in order to exercise my 2A right of self-defense.

 

They have to respond by Sep 15th. We'll see what happens.

Any word yet?

 

 

Nothing yet.

[PeteF 1,044]

The correct remedy is to file a Petition for Rules Change to change the Administrative Code. I did so on July 16th as a citizen that does not want to provide my personal information in order to exercise my 2A right of self-defense.

 

They have to respond by Sep 15th. We'll see what happens.

 

This is not meant to take a shot at you but will they treat 9/15 the same way they treat 30 days for a permit, or how Lautenmummy's name got on the ballot after the legal date?

 

It seem the government only holds to dates when its convenient for them.

[Bob B 103]

The correct remedy is to file a Petition for Rules Change to change the Administrative Code. I did so on July 16th as a citizen that does not want to provide my personal information in order to exercise my 2A right of self-defense.

 

They have to respond by Sep 15th. We'll see what happens.

 

This is not meant to take a shot at you but will they treat 9/15 the same way they treat 30 days for a permit, or how Lautenmummy's name got on the ballot after the legal date?

 

It seem the government only holds to dates when its convenient for them.

 

Unknown. I don't know anyone who has done this before. I would not be surprised if I did not get a response by the deadline. If they do respond, and if they deny my request, it will be very interesting to read what justification they have for maintaining an Administrative Code, post 2A incorporation, that limits a constitutional right beyond what is required by statute. In my humble opinion, there is no way for them to deny my request without "confessing" to a conspiracy to commit oppression.

 

Consider the last question on STS-033 (Application for Firearms Purchaser Identification Card and/or Handgun Purchase Permit).

 

(28) Are you presently, or have you ever been a member of any organization which advocates or approves the commission of acts of force and violence, either to overthrow the Government of the United States or of this State, or which seeks to deny others their rights under the Constitution of either the United States or the State of New Jersey? If yes, list name and address of organization(s).

 

I love that question.

[PeteF 1,044]

Consider the last question on STS-033 (Application for Firearms Purchaser Identification Card and/or Handgun Purchase Permit).

 

 

Quote:

(28) Are you presently, or have you ever been a member of any organization which advocates or approves the commission of acts of force and violence, either to overthrow the Government of the United States or of this State, or which seeks to deny others their rights under the Constitution of either the United States or the State of New Jersey? If yes, list name and address of organization(s).

 

 

I love that question.

 

I guess that makes anyone in NJ government ineligible to purchase a firearm. :shock:

[ChrisJM981 924]

 

 

 

 

 

(28) Are you presently, or have you ever been a member of any organization which advocates or approves the commission of acts of force and violence, either to overthrow the Government of the United States or of this State, or which seeks to deny others their rights under the Constitution of either the United States or the State of New Jersey? If yes, list name and address of organization(s).

 

I love that question.

 

The answer is always "yes" since you're a resident of New Jersey.

[Bob B 103]

Consider the last question on STS-033 (Application for Firearms Purchaser Identification Card and/or Handgun Purchase Permit).

 

 

Quote:

(28) Are you presently, or have you ever been a member of any organization which advocates or approves the commission of acts of force and violence, either to overthrow the Government of the United States or of this State, or which seeks to deny others their rights under the Constitution of either the United States or the State of New Jersey? If yes, list name and address of organization(s).

 

 

I love that question.

 

I guess that makes anyone in NJ government ineligible to purchase a firearm. :shock:

 

Exactly.