GunForHire Tactical Carbine 1

[Cylinder Head 22]

Just wanted to post up my experiences from this weekend's Tactical Carbine course run by GunForHire down in Winslow, NJ. The instructors were absolutely terrific, very knowledgeable regarding the AR and its history and extremely practical. They were also a ton of fun and disspelled some rumors about gun use in NJ (I will not comment further). They created a very relaxed atmosphere that was simultaneously VERY SAFE. I cannot stress this enough, GunForHire's courses, every one I have attended, are extremely safe.

 

The day started with us students getting a rough 50-yard zero for our rifles. I went prone and used my magnifier to walk my rounds on to the bull. I wish we had used a full blown arrest to get a better zero but that would have taken way too much time. They were looking for 6-inch groups and I was able to make 3". At the end of the day I was crushing headshots on steel at 30 yards so I'd say it was a decent enough zero.

 

We ran a number of drills designed to test how fast we could get our weapons up and on target. There were also a number of multi-target drills. The best thing about these drills is that you learn a lot about your equipment. Nothing is as good of an acid test for your rig and your rifle than run....shoot....reload...shoot....run...tactical reload.... oops I dropped my mag.... I was very happy with my Aimpoint and my Tactical Tailor MAV by the end of the day. At no point did my equipment get in the way, snag or feel like it was weighing me down. I was not quite up to snuff with my Blue Force Gear sling, I need to get better with when to tension it and when not to.

 

This brings me to my next point. PMAGS do not like sand. Pinned ones specifically, will get gummed up and there's basically no way for you to clean them as they are pinned closed. I had two of my mags get SO TIGHT I could barely get the 15th round in them. They would absolutely not load into the weapon on a closed bolt, and still will not. This caused a few problems for me until I figured it out and only loaded those mags with the bolt fully locked back.

 

Other than that, and the occasional user error, my KAC ran perfectly the entire day. When I was accurate, the gun was as well.

 

We ended the class with some of the more fun drills. One drill in particular had us running on command, 5 steps in one direction, and then another, stopping to deliver 4 rounds on target, then repeat. I was picked on for this as I had 5 mags on my rig and 1 on my rifle, so I ran this drill alone after everyone else was dry. My heart rate was somewhere between a scared jackrabbit and a hummingbird by the time I was done.

 

Can't wait to take Carbine 2, I missed it yesterday as I am on the left coast for business.

[MidwestPX 172]

Here's a technique to clean a pinned PMAG given to me by a customer.

 

1. Fill two basins with water, one soapy, one not.

2. Dunk the PMAG in the soapy water and while depressing the follower with your finger, swish it around

3. Flip the PMAG upside down over the soapy water and while depressing the follower with your finger, allow it to drain

4. Repeat #2 but in the clean water

5. If you so desire, squirt CLP in the mag if you're concerned about spring corrosion

[Cylinder Head 22]

Awesome, thank you. I will be doing this later.

[deni 16]

would you recommend this class to those brand new to the AR platform? With no previous course experiences?

How many students in the class?

[Cylinder Head 22]

would you recommend this class to those brand new to the AR platform? With no previous course experiences?

How many students in the class?

 

I would highly recommend it to those new to the platform. I've only had my rifle for 6 months, and in that time I have not had any training outside my own range sessions. This course will help you familiarize yourself with your weapon futher, and will REALLY help you understand your own shortcomings with regards to handling it. Everything taught was very practical, a beginner would have no problems. Originally there were supposed to be 6 students for the class. One dropped out so we were 5. Lots of personal attention from the instructors.

[Tosser 61]

Just an FYI. Conventional wisdom is to use 1 or 2 less rounds in the mag to allow for it to be seated correctly(completely) on a closed bolt. 28/29rds in a 30rd mag or 14 in a 15 round magazine. I assume that was discussed in the course?

[papercutninja 24]

I think that PMags were designed so that no downloading of rounds was needed for the mag to be seated correctly.

[MidwestPX 172]

I think that PMags were designed so that no downloading of rounds was needed for the mag to be seated correctly.

Yes but many, myself included, still download them because when executing a tactical reload, it's still tough with a full 30rd PMAG. I run 28 in mine and just about everyone in the classes I attend do the same (some run 29).

[raz-0 1,259]

They created a very relaxed atmosphere that was simultaneously VERY SAFE. I cannot stress this enough, GunForHire's courses, every one I have attended, are extremely safe.

 

The day started with us students getting a rough 50-yard zero for our rifles. I went prone and used my magnifier to walk my rounds on to the bull. I wish we had used a full blown arrest to get a better zero but that would have taken way too much time. They were looking for 6-inch groups and I was able to make 3". At the end of the day I was crushing headshots on steel at 30 yards so I'd say it was a decent enough zero.

 

Very safe with 30 yard steel? Uhm. New steel at 50 yards is pretty safe, but it will quickly become steel that isn't new and can be unsafe in fairly short order.

 

Steel at 30 yards with rifle rounds is a recipie for trouble. It's not that high velocity splatter that comes back is going to be more common, but at 30 yards, when it DOES happen it will still be moving very fast. That and I have yet to see steel targets that will hold up well at 30 yards. If someone has them, I'd like ot know what brand and how much

[Dan 177]

I run 14 in my MidwestPX 15/20s. Pushing it to 15 is a recipe for a FTL.

[Cylinder Head 22]

Very safe with 30 yard steel? Uhm. New steel at 50 yards is pretty safe, but it will quickly become steel that isn't new and can be unsafe in fairly short order.

 

Steel at 30 yards with rifle rounds is a recipie for trouble. It's not that high velocity splatter that comes back is going to be more common, but at 30 yards, when it DOES happen it will still be moving very fast. That and I have yet to see steel targets that will hold up well at 30 yards. If someone has them, I'd like ot know what brand and how much

 

This was the first time I've shot steel so I can't tell you much else. The targets were brand new and the instructors tested them before anyone was on the line to make sure there was no backsplatter. Also note, this was a drill where we were standing behind cover. I did not state that before.

[Displaced Texan 11,748]

Thanks for the AAR report. I really want to take this course the next time it's offered.

 

Jeff

[Zell959 40]

Here's a technique to clean a pinned PMAG given to me by a customer.

 

1. Fill two basins with water, one soapy, one not.

2. Dunk the PMAG in the soapy water and while depressing the follower with your finger, swish it around

3. Flip the PMAG upside down over the soapy water and while depressing the follower with your finger, allow it to drain

4. Repeat #2 but in the clean water

5. If you so desire, squirt CLP in the mag if you're concerned about spring corrosion

 

In your opinion, is the risk of spring corrosion significant enough to warrant the CLP? Wouldn't the CLP potentially attract even more sand if the mag is later subjected to similar conditions?

[MidwestPX 172]

In your opinion, is the risk of spring corrosion significant enough to warrant the CLP? Wouldn't the CLP potentially attract even more sand if the mag is later subjected to similar conditions?

In my opinion, which with a dollar will get you a cup of McD's coffee so take it for what's worth, corrosion is not a significant issue. PMAGs use either stainless steel or chrome silicon springs which make corrosion moot. In my experience, feed lips snap off or the top of the spine of the mag cracks first.

[Cavalier1979 0]

Just an FYI. Conventional wisdom is to use 1 or 2 less rounds in the mag to allow for it to be seated correctly(completely) on a closed bolt. 28/29rds in a 30rd mag or 14 in a 15 round magazine. I assume that was discussed in the course?

 

 

They said that.. I took this same course in early april

[Cavalier1979 0]

Took this class and it was awesome cant wait for level 2 and 3

[SSlav 14]

I think that PMags were designed so that no downloading of rounds was needed for the mag to be seated correctly.

 

Yes, but a 30 round P-Mag will actually let you squeeze in the 31st round. A pinned P-Mag that lets you squeeze in the 16th round would be a felony in NJ.

[rauchman 3]

Excellent thread Cylinder Head. Thanks!!! I've been trying to find the time/$ to take that course. I agree that it's probably the best forum to test your gear. I recently picked up a Spike's 16" midlength upper w/ standard handguards that I want to run through a course 1st, before deciding on what to add/upgrade.

 

Aside from having to pin the brake, are there any negatives at all to the Battle Comp you're running? This is the forerunner for a muzzle brake right now for me.

 

Also, where the hell is Winslow, NJ?

[alowerlevel 77]

Also, where the hell is Winslow, NJ?

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=south+jersey+shooting+club&aq=&sll=39.657222,-74.862778&sspn=0.051277,0.076818&gl=us&g=Winslow,+NJ&ie=UTF8&ll=39.626201,-74.880838&spn=0.012825,0.019205&t=h&z=16

[Cylinder Head 22]

Excellent thread Cylinder Head. Thanks!!! I've been trying to find the time/$ to take that course. I agree that it's probably the best forum to test your gear. I recently picked up a Spike's 16" midlength upper w/ standard handguards that I want to run through a course 1st, before deciding on what to add/upgrade.

 

Aside from having to pin the brake, are there any negatives at all to the Battle Comp you're running? This is the forerunner for a muzzle brake right now for me.

 

Also, where the hell is Winslow, NJ?

 

No issues with the BC. It absolutely rules. The only thing I decided to change about my rifle is the type of sling I run (single instead of a two point) although I can't get Larry Vickers' admonitions about the downsides of a single out of my head. I'm going to need an ASAP plate now.

[rauchman 3]

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=south+jersey+shooting+club&aq=&sll=39.657222,-74.862778&sspn=0.051277,0.076818&gl=us&g=Winslow,+NJ&ie=UTF8&ll=39.626201,-74.880838&spn=0.012825,0.019205&t=h&z=16

 

Thanks!!! I'm guessing 2.5 hours or so from where I am.

 

 

No issues with the BC. It absolutely rules. The only thing I decided to change about my rifle is the type of sling I run (single instead of a two point) although I can't get Larry Vickers' admonitions about the downsides of a single out of my head. I'm going to need an ASAP plate now.

 

 

Thanks for the info. Yeah, having the weapon bang into your nuts on a single point sling can have a, hmmmmm, rather detrimental effect on your shooting performance.

[Cavalier1979 0]

When i took the class i was the only one even close to Winslow. I live 30 mins away. Everyone else was 3+ hours away.

[Cylinder Head 22]

 

Thanks for the info. Yeah, having the weapon bang into your nuts on a single point sling can have a, hmmmmm, rather detrimental effect on your shooting performance.

 

I'm no Chris Costa (can't even grow a beard), but there are ways to clear the gun from your genital area when transitioning to your secondary with a single point. I've seen LAV do transitions with a two-point sling and even when he does it, it looks awkward and slow. The whole idea of having to do a transition is because you're trying to be fast and efficient with your movement.

[MidwestPX 172]

I'm no Chris Costa (can't even grow a beard), but there are ways to clear the gun from your genital area when transitioning to your secondary with a single point. I've seen LAV do transitions with a two-point sling and even when he does it, it looks awkward and slow. The whole idea of having to do a transition is because you're trying to be fast and efficient with your movement.

With a two point, I like to roll the rifle outboard as my support hand guides it down. Simultaneously, my strong hand is going for my sidearm and as it's being punched out, my support hand is meeting it as I attain my index. I like this technique because the sling then traps the rifle, keeping it somewhat controlled even when moving. The barrel and magazine are both angled away from any sensitive areas as well.

[rauchman 3]

I'm no Chris Costa (can't even grow a beard), but there are ways to clear the gun from your genital area when transitioning to your secondary with a single point. I've seen LAV do transitions with a two-point sling and even when he does it, it looks awkward and slow. The whole idea of having to do a transition is because you're trying to be fast and efficient with your movement.

 

Interesting. I have much to learn!!!