Simple Poll

[Joelk 61]

My apologies. It was meant to show that I was taking your criticisms with a sense of humor. Perhaps I'm dating myself by using the two old guys from the Muppet Show - they are the two guys that always sat in the balcony and made fun of everyone, including themselves. At any rate, I took it down.

 

No hard feelings I hope.

 

No problem. I was not offended (I was hoping that the made it clear), but was just trying to give some honest feedback in all of my posts. I would love to see the NJ2AS grow and be successful. Like I said I still hope to make next weeks meeting.

 

Don't feel too old, I remember the Muppets too.

[Bob B 103]

No problem. I was not offended (I was hoping that the made it clear), but was just trying to give some honest feedback in all of my posts. I would love to see the NJ2AS grow and be successful. Like I said I still hope to make next weeks meeting.

 

Don't feel too old, I remember the Muppets too.

 

Okay, I feel better now. Looking forward to meeting you and having the opportunity to answer any of your questions in person.

[mipafox 438]

This thread poll is like those crappy calls I get just before elections. They say it is a poll, but it's not.

[Tom-NJ2AS 31]

This thread poll is like those crappy calls I get just before elections. They say it is a poll, but it's not.

 

 

How is it not poll. I am actually surprised at that 100 percent want to change things but only 50 percent joined. We started at NJ gun forums, because of everyone on here that complains about the gun laws, including me.

[mipafox 438]

How is it not poll.

 

Because you obviously had zero interest in gauging statistics, you simply wanted to get people to commit to a position that would support your cause, then make them feel guilty for not joining your cause. Through ruse and insincerity.

 

I am actually surprised at that 100 percent want to change things but only 50 percent joined. We started at NJ gun forums, because of everyone on here that complains about the gun laws, including me.

 

^Case and point. ^

 

You are NOT surprised. That was the purpose of your poll. So, you are also a...ummm...I forgot the word for it

 

BTW, tricking people is a good strategy for a quick sale if you deal with dopes. It's a pretty crappy sales job when you want them for the long haul.

 

That's how "is it not poll." [sic]

 

This is actually worse than the “poll” calls I get before elections. Because you stare me in the monitor after the fact and tell me your purpose was to conduct a poll, and not to trick people into feeling guilty and joining your organization. Shame on you.

[tbtrout 141]

Wow my head hurts after reading this.

 

I can personally attest to the fact that the NJ2AS is working towards a more gun friendly NJ. They can not change everything with the snap of a finger. It took years to get where we are and will take years to get out. When it comes to a question of what I care about the most will differ for everyone. I could care less about CCW but I will also not buy anymore handguns in this state till the permit system is gone. Establishing good contacts and reputation with one cause may help the other. OGAM and Mag limit abolishment, I am all for fighting for, but it will take time. And it will take everyone working together to do it. Infighting amongst ourselves will not help any.

[PDM 91]

My head hurts as well. Do people enjoy arguing just for the sake of arguing? It appears so. Fact is, the NJ2AS has done a phenomenal job in one short year of existence. Unlike other pro 2A organizations in this state that have preceded them, they have done an excellent job of organizing and, in particular, reaching out and trying to create an inclusive "big tent". I've been to one meeting (at GFH) and found the level of candor and transparency impressive. For pete's sake, just look at the speaker list they have put together. We should all be greatful and ready to pitch in, not **** and moan. No organization is perfect. If there are things you don't like, go to a meeting and offer constructive suggestions, with the understanding that at some point the leadership of an organization must lead.

 

It also sickens me when people say there is no hope and the only solution is to move out of state. I'm not naieve -- change will come slowly, and probably only after pressure from the courts. However, stop and think for a moment how isolated NJ has become with respect to its gun laws. Change has come to Wisconsin, Illinois, and other states, and more is in the works. The tide in this country is against NJ. This will be especially true if Republicans make further gains in congress and (fingers crossed) retake the White House. We will almost certainly see federal CCW reciprocity legislation. Even if that legislation doesn't override NJ law for its own residents (as would be the case with the latest bill that was proposd), it would force NJ to recognize out of state CCW permits. Once that happens, it really undercuts the bs public safety arguments that many NJ legislators rely on to deny CCW. Try a little positive thinking people.

[ChrisJM981 924]

To tell you the truth I agreed with 3/4's of his post. And your typical response is half the reason I want nothing to do with your joke of an association. The other half has to do with actually knowing what goes on behind those closed doors and what a complete and udder disaster the foundation is.

3/4 + 1/2= 5/4

 

I'll keep my money and put it towards a nest egg to get out of this state. I have a better chance of leaving this state than expecting the NJ2AS to make the laws better in NJ.

I guess that's why you bought a boat?

 

Yes & Yes. Joined as I feel I have read between the lines as to what has occurred with the SAF's suit. Matt I would save your use of the word 'joke' for ANJRPC threads. I've only been able to attend one NJ2AS meeting since I work the afternoon shift, but I was thoroughly impressed with what they are trying to accomplish.

[Avi 12]

I would love to see NJ gun laws changed. I am not a member of NJ2AS because I cant make any of the meetings. In the middle of the week in Toms River is a definite no cant go for me. Maybe if the meetings were at least in the middle of the state you would get a lot more members.

 

Also I dont like the secrecy. When you ask what NJ2AS is doing on other fronts other than CCW you get responses like "There is other stuff in the works, we just cant talk about it." Maybe if they were more open about what they were fighting for, maybe I'll join. Right now I am not looking for some place where I need a "secret handshake"

First id like to thank you for responding, on that note you dont have to make any of the meeting to be a member just being a member gives us strength, 2nd if you look at our website you can see there is a current action in court against the state police and we are getting ready to launch another lawsuit in the near future its all on the website, and yes there are alot of thing which have to be kept quiet i'm sure you can understand that? do you think you know 1% of the things the NRA is doing? no of course not but there is trust. We are asking for the same, I promise you there are huge things going on which will have ramifications for the N.J gun owner Just $25 and alittle trust, We are in exsistance for 1 year and i can honestly and unequivocally say in one year we have already done more for the N.J gun rights than all gun groups have ever done in the history of n.j combined with us the Proverb talk less and do more is our core

[Shane45 807]

Joel, the distinction is needed because NJ has moved from "commission of a crime with a gun" and its mandatory sentancing to the gun is the crime using the same mandatory sentance. If I rob a wawa with a pistol it is entirely different than I made a stop at a wawa on the way home from the range or whatever scenario you care to insert here. An error in paperwork, config of the weapon or any other "administrative" type error should not trigger the same seeking of mandatory sentance as someone actually committing an active crime with a gun. I do not think this was even the original intention of the law but that is what it is being twisted into at this time. This is especially important in a state that changes its mind on the law at whim. To this day I still run into people holding on to the memo from the State Police thinking their blocked mas are legal. Should they get the same mandatory sentance for highcap mag posetion as the guy that has a charge on him for hicap mag posession while robbing someone at gunpoint?

[Joelk 61]

Joel, the distinction is needed because NJ has moved from "commission of a crime with a gun" and its mandatory sentencing to the gun is the crime using the same mandatory sentence. If I rob a wawa with a pistol it is entirely different than I made a stop at a wawa on the way home from the range or whatever scenario you care to insert here. An error in paperwork, config of the weapon or any other "administrative" type error should not trigger the same seeking of mandatory sentence as someone actually committing an active crime with a gun. I do not think this was even the original intention of the law but that is what it is being twisted into at this time. This is especially important in a state that changes its mind on the law at whim. To this day I still run into people holding on to the memo from the State Police thinking their blocked mas are legal. Should they get the same mandatory sentence for highcap mag position as the guy that has a charge on him for hicap mag possession while robbing someone at gunpoint?

Shane, I agree that the high cap law should be repealed. As I asked before, is anyone working to do so?

 

In your example, as to the charge of possession if a high cap mag, each individual should be charged/sentenced the same for that crime. The individual robbing someone at gunpoint should also be charged the additional crimes he has committed, such as robbery, assault with a deadly weapon, etc. (and ideally he should have been shot dead by the armed victim, but from this thread it does not appear that NJ2AS is prioritizing CCW, please correct me if I am wrong). The same thing with the robbing Wawa, and stopping at Wawa example, they are entirely different actions, and should be treated differently, ie the robber should be charged with robbery, assault with a deadly weapon, etc. While the person who stops at Wawa should not be charged at all.

 

I am not knocking the NJ2AS. All I am doing is responding to the question posted by NJ2AS as to why some have not joined yet. I may join at Wednesday's meeting, but I have to be convinced why I should give less to SAF, in order to give to NJ2AS. If NJ2AS convinces me that they are as effective, or more effective, than the SAF I will reallocate some of my gun rights organization spending their way.

[Shane45 807]

Understood brother! We'll catch up at the meeting. Mutch easier to articulate in person

[Joelk 61]

Understood brother! We'll catch up at the meeting. Mutch easier to articulate in person

Sounds good Shane.

[Shane45 807]

I would be happy to sit with anyone that would like to talk about the organization and answer any questions that I can.

[Frank Jack Fiamingo 58]

Because you obviously had zero interest in gauging statistics, you simply wanted to get people to commit to a position that would support your cause, then make them feel guilty for not joining your cause. Through ruse and insincerity.

 

 

 

^Case and point. ^

 

You are NOT surprised. That was the purpose of your poll. So, you are also a...ummm...I forgot the word for it

 

BTW, tricking people is a good strategy for a quick sale if you deal with dopes. It's a pretty crappy sales job when you want them for the long haul.

 

That's how "is it not poll." [sic]

 

This is actually worse than the “poll” calls I get before elections. Because you stare me in the monitor after the fact and tell me your purpose was to conduct a poll, and not to trick people into feeling guilty and joining your organization. Shame on you.

 

The reason that fox's response is inaccurate is because no one called him. He chose to read and respond. He has no reason to feel "put upon". No one is under any obligation to read or respond to these posts. Having said that, he has the right to be wrong.

[Frank Jack Fiamingo 58]

Everyone has a choice in how they wish to address a problem when they face it. Some will choose to walk away and that is perfectly OK. Some will stand and fight and that is good too. This is still (although no one knows for how long) a free country. We ask those who still believe that living, working and raising a family in New Jersey is worthwhile, to stand with us and fight. It is simply a request. If you would like to stand with us you are most welcome. You can decide for yourself if it is a "joke" or a viable alternative to "leaving". Obviously, we feel that it is. Others are allowed to disagree. Hopefully there solution will work for them. You can leave NJ, but what do you do if the state you move to goes "bad"? Do you move again? Eventually do you move out of the country? To WHERE?

 

At some point you need to make a stand. Despite what some may think (without evidence), we ARE making a stand. We don't have all the answers, but the more intelligent people we attract to the organization, the better the chance that we will find the right answers. The one thing I do know for sure, you will not find the answers by leaving the state, you simply avoid the issue altogether.

[gunforhire 826]

To tell you the truth I agreed with 3/4's of his post. And your typical response is half the reason I want nothing to do with your joke of an association. The other half has to do with actually knowing what goes on behind those closed doors and what a complete and udder disaster the foundation is.

 

I'll keep my money and put it towards a nest egg to get out of this state. I have a better chance of leaving this state than expecting the NJ2AS to make the laws better in NJ.

Hey Matt, I am just curious as to why you feel the NJ2AS is a joke?

[gunforhire 826]

As a long time gun owner I am less concerned with the "Operation Establish Compliance" plan, and quite frankly don't think that there should be any issue with "NJ law making no distinction between criminals and honest citizens when it comes to things like magazine capacity, hollow-points, possession, etc." The law should be the same for everyone, regardless if they are a law abiding citizen, a police officer, a criminal, or any combination thereof.

 

I agree that the FID/PPP process is flawed, but I would love to hear your ideas without having to listen to episode 10 of the GFH commercial. Anthony and I have had a couple of disagreements regarding his advertisements/podcasts, and consequently I don't consider GFH radio an accurate news source. However, I must say that Anthony has been a stand up guy when I have disagreed with some of his statements, and I look forward to meeting him on the 17th.

 

I guess that for me it all comes down to CCW, and I appreciate your assistance, but it seems to me that the 2nd Amendment Foundation is carrying the water in NJ, NY, MD, etc.

Look forward to meeting you also on Thursday Joel hope you can make it. Yes GFH Radio is a commercial for GFH, I am a capitalist and the bills do need to get paid. I started the radio show as a way to vent my frustrations and maybe unify the frustrated 2A patriots in this State. And I am still on track to do that. As of last week 44,000 people downloaded episode 10. If I can use this show to wake up and mobilize even a few closet gun owners it will be a good thing. As far as being an accurate news source, the news items we report on are as accurate as when we read them. With regards to guests like Frank I believe it is a great way to put our activists out there and have them explain their stance. Starting next week the entire focus of my show will be to focus on the politicians and our upcoming elections this November. Maybe we can awaken the sleeping 1 million NJ gun owners and vote some bums out or at least send a message to Trenton.

 

My favorite or is also SAF and I will be at the GRPC next month in Chicago. I also do not agree with everything the NRA does by a long shot but unfortunately for us it is the best we have at the moment. It is a shame that such a small number of us have to try and fight for the majority of apathetic do nothings.

 

Anthony

[Joelk 61]

Look forward to meeting you also on Thursday Joel hope you can make it. Yes GFH Radio is a commercial for GFH, I am a capitalist and the bills do need to get paid. I started the radio show as a way to vent my frustrations and maybe unify the frustrated 2A patriots in this State. And I am still on track to do that. As of last week 44,000 people downloaded episode 10. If I can use this show to wake up and mobilize even a few closet gun owners it will be a good thing. As far as being an accurate news source, the news items we report on are as accurate as when we read them. With regards to guests like Frank I believe it is a great way to put our activists out there and have them explain their stance. Starting next week the entire focus of my show will be to focus on the politicians and our upcoming elections this November. Maybe we can awaken the sleeping 1 million NJ gun owners and vote some bums out or at least send a message to Trenton.

 

My favorite or is also SAF and I will be at the GRPC next month in Chicago. I also do not agree with everything the NRA does by a long shot but unfortunately for us it is the best we have at the moment. It is a shame that such a small number of us have to try and fight for the majority of apathetic do nothings.

 

Anthony

I don't have a problem with you being a capitalist, and making money Anthony. In fact I commend you for your success. I am also one of the 44,000 people that have downloaded episode 10 (but I haven't gotten around to listening to it yet). I also think it is good that NJ2AS is putting their info on there.

 

Where I have a problem is when, earlier in this thread, NJ2AS says to find out what they are doing go listen to a commercial source,

Another common complaint is that the FID/PPP process should be changed. This could take may forms, but there are some common denominators, one being that the NICS check has made the PPP obsolete. We have some ideas here, one of which Frank discussed in episode 10 on Gun For Hire Radio.

instead of just posting a summary in this thread, or a link to the same info on their web page. I wish you continued success in your business, but I don't feel it is appropriate for a non-profit gun rights organization to tell me that I have to go to a unrelated for-profit source to find out about about what they are doing.

 

While I am complaining (and probably endlessly annoying many of you), why is the SAF having their meeting in anti gun Chicago. You would think that they could find a pro gun location to support instead.

 

I give people like you and Bob Viden a lot of credit for your effort, and representation of NJ at these national events.

[gunforhire 826]

I don't have a problem with you being a capitalist, and making money Anthony. In fact I commend you for your success. I am also one of the 44,000 people that have downloaded episode 10 (but I haven't gotten around to listening to it yet). I also think it is good that NJ2AS is putting their info on there.

 

Where I have a problem is when, earlier in this thread, NJ2AS says to find out what they are doing go listen to a commercial source, instead of just posting a summary in this thread, or a link to the same info on their web page. I wish you continued success in your business, but I don't feel it is appropriate for a non-profit gun rights organization to tell me that I have to go to a unrelated for-profit source to find out about about what they are doing.

 

While I am complaining (and probably endlessly annoying many of you), why is the SAF having their meeting in anti gun Chicago. You would think that they could find a pro gun location to support instead.

 

I give people like you and Bob Viden a lot of credit for your effort, and representation of NJ at these national events.

I really cannot wait to meet you (your buying dinner! LOL). The SAF always holds the GRPC in a State that is ANTI Gun. Alan Gotleib is such a ball buster! I was with Viden yesterday at the ANJRPC board meeting he is a good man.

 

Peace out!

 

Anthony

 

BTW - you are not irritating me, in order to build momentum for a unified front we must hear everyones opinion and take on the issues. I have been known to be a little opinionated myself!