Simple Poll

[Tom-NJ2AS 31]

Simple poll guys. We get a lot of emails of people complaining about how the laws and their towns suck. There are a lot of members here who love to shoot, but yet have not yet joined the NJ2AS. We are very active guys. We are here to change things for all of us, but it takes members, and a lot of them. If i took a poll and asked how many members here were members of the NRA, i am sure the results would be high. We have a core group, willing to donate our time to help you, and we are right in your backyards! Please consider joining the NJ2AS.

 

Thank you

[hd2000fxdl 422]

Just took the poll,

 

Would be nice if there was a 3rd question: How many plan to join the NJ2AS.

 

Seeing 6 yes's to would you like to see NJ Gun Laws changes and 4 yes to NJ2AS Members and 2 No's it would be nice to see how many who are not members will be joining. Not faulting anyone for not being a member, the No's may not have been aware they existed playing the devils advocate here.

 

You have to be involved and support groups like this to change things and if your waiting for the next guy to do it we are fighting a loosing battle.

 

Harry

[Tom-NJ2AS 31]

How about this. If you answered no to joining the NJ2AS, can you respond here with a reason? If we are not doing enough or you want to see something else done, let us know!

[usnmars 136]

I would love to see NJ gun laws changed. I am not a member of NJ2AS because I cant make any of the meetings. In the middle of the week in Toms River is a definite no cant go for me. Maybe if the meetings were at least in the middle of the state you would get a lot more members.

 

Also I dont like the secrecy. When you ask what NJ2AS is doing on other fronts other than CCW you get responses like "There is other stuff in the works, we just cant talk about it." Maybe if they were more open about what they were fighting for, maybe I'll join. Right now I am not looking for some place where I need a "secret handshake"

[Krdshrk 3,877]

Eric - we had a meeting at GFH a few months back. That's a lot closer...

[Parker 213]

Simple poll guys. We get a lot of emails of people complaining about how the laws and their towns suck. There are a lot of members here who love to shoot, but yet have not yet joined the NJ2AS. We are very active guys. We are here to change things for all of us, but it takes members, and a lot of them. If i took a poll and asked how many members here were members of the NRA, i am sure the results would be high. We have a core group, willing to donate our time to help you, and we are right in your backyards! Please consider joining the NJ2AS.

 

Thank you

I went to the NJ2AS website, and noticed the Forums link is no longer available. Did something change? Forums

[Tom-NJ2AS 31]

I went to the NJ2AS website, and noticed the Forums link is no longer available. Did something change? Forums

 

 

We are integrating a new site. The forums should be back by tomorrow the latest.

[JonF 79]

After realizing this poll was reinforcing my complacency on the matter, i went and joined this morning. Stuff isn't going to change on its own so hopefully more folks will help contribute to the cause. Thanks Tom!

[Tom-NJ2AS 31]

Thanks for your support. We have started rotating our meetings from North, Central and South. This month is in Toms River so if you can make it, come on out!!

[vladtepes 1,060]

Yes and Yes....

[Tom-NJ2AS 31]

so 24 people voted no that they are not a member. Please post why. I am looking for information that can help us grow. Do you not think we have a chance in hell at changing anything? Please post and let us know.

 

 

Thanks

[Joelk 61]

I am a member of several gun rights organizations. Unfortunately the only organization that I really like is the 2nd Amendment Foundation. On the other end of the spectrum is the NRA (I am still a member) which I often strongly disagree with. Consequently I am a little slower to join any new organizations until I get a better feel for them, as I want to prioritize my gun rights spending. So far the 2nd Amendment Foundation gets the vast majority of it.

 

A friend and I are going to try to leave work early and make the 1.5 hour (probably longer with rush hour) drive to check out the NJ2AS at the August 17th meeting. To be completely honest the biggest draw for me is Rob Pincus, as having trained with him, I look forward to hearing what he has to say.

 

I also don't think we have much chance of making things better in this state. I have absolutely no faith in our politicians, and I think the only way we will get anywhere is in the courts. Even there I think the only hope for success is at the federal level. Sorry to be so negative, but I wanted to give you my honest opinion.

[hd2000fxdl 422]

I have to say, I am surprised at the poll results. Just remember folks the NJ2AS hasn't been around for that long but they are fighting for our rights, while everything at this time may not be as transparent as we may all like, I myself feel like they are sincere in there efforts and have folks working a lot of different angles, not to mention they are making some progress and while another group may also be fighting for the same rights, they are hitting different points, so together with the other groups I feel for the cost of being a member is very reasonable for what they stand for and are doing.

 

Just my opinion and proud to be a part of an association that is fighting for OUR Rights.

 

Harry

[heaterbob 53]

just joined, should have joined sooner.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

haven't joined but I donated, which is the same

[Bob B 103]

I would love to see NJ gun laws changed. I am not a member of NJ2AS because I cant make any of the meetings. In the middle of the week in Toms River is a definite no cant go for me. Maybe if the meetings were at least in the middle of the state you would get a lot more members.

 

Also I dont like the secrecy. When you ask what NJ2AS is doing on other fronts other than CCW you get responses like "There is other stuff in the works, we just cant talk about it." Maybe if they were more open about what they were fighting for, maybe I'll join. Right now I am not looking for some place where I need a "secret handshake"

 

Just so you know, it has very little to do with secrecy and has much more to do with keeping our word. When we are working with others, be it legislators or attorneys, or other organizations, there are conditions that we have to agree to. When working with legislators, it is unwise to advertise what we are doing, for obvious reasons. It is better to get to the point where there is a commitment, and only then make a public announcement. When working with other organizations, we learned quickly that one of the things that drives organizations apart and keeps them from working together is the fear that the other organization will try to take the credit. It's a childish fear, but it is a real one. By being discrete until all involved agree that the time is right to announce what we are doing, or have done, we maintain those very important relationships and we preserve our credibility. Once that credibility is lost, it's gone forever, so we guard it very carefully.

 

Having said that, your point is valid. We can at least do a better job of clarifying our objectives. In the mean time, let me try to summarize.

 

Our first project was Operation Defend Life and was CCW related. It was the thing that brought us together in the beginning. Our objective was to combine the efforts of those on this forum and others that were considering filing a post McDonald challenge to NJ's carry laws, pick the best candidates to be plaintiffs and either file the suit ourselves, or better yet, considering that we were a young organization with no resources, hand them off to a larger organization. Without getting into the details (because we gave our word that we wouldn't) we accomplished our objective. There are several on this forum that have firsthand knowledge of what really happened. We don't want them to say anything either, but they can at least attest to the fact that we were successful.

 

Next, we began to collect data on the problems that the gun community as a whole wanted fixed. At the top of the list was a combination of the permitting delays and the additional requirements. As a result, we initiated Operation Establish Compliance, which has nothing to do with CCW and everything to do with the most common complaints of all gun owners in NJ. We have published quite a bit about that effort.

 

One of the other issues that was at the top of the list was the many similar problems that are a result of NJ law making no distinction between criminals and honest citizens when it comes to things like magazine capacity, hollow-points, possession, etc. This is one of those areas where we can't say what we are doing on a public forum, but we can and do go into more detail at our meetings.

 

Another common complaint is that the FID/PPP process should be changed. This could take may forms, but there are some common denominators, one being that the NICS check has made the PPP obsolete. We have some ideas here, one of which Frank discussed in episode 10 on Gun For Hire Radio.

 

There is more, but you get the point and I hope that this at least gives you, and hopefully others, a comfort level that we are working on the most important issues, we are taking a realistic approach to each and we are making progress.

 

Believe me when I say that keeping some of this stuff confidential is at least as frustrating for us as it is for anyone else. We really do our best to keep everyone informed as much as possible without jeopardizing the progress we have made. But, there is one surefire way to find out everything that we are working on... become involved. Perhaps you can chair a committee, or something similar. We could definitely use the help, even if it was for a limited time period -- 6 months or whatever. We would be happy to talk to you about it.

 

Lastly, thanks for your comments. One thing that we have to continue to do at NJ2AS is to pay attention, not to take anything personally and continue to identify areas where we can improve.

[Joelk 61]

Our first project was Operation Defend Life and was CCW related.

 

Next, we began to collect data on the problems that the gun community as a whole wanted fixed. At the top of the list was a combination of the permitting delays and the additional requirements. As a result, we initiated Operation Establish Compliance, which has nothing to do with CCW and everything to do with the most common complaints of all gun owners in NJ.

 

One of the other issues that was at the top of the list was the many similar problems that are a result of NJ law making no distinction between criminals and honest citizens when it comes to things like magazine capacity, hollow-points, possession, etc.

 

Another common complaint is that the FID/PPP process should be changed. This could take may forms, but there are some common denominators, one being that the NICS check has made the PPP obsolete. We have some ideas here, one of which Frank discussed in episode 10 on Gun For Hire Radio.

 

Lastly, thanks for your comments. One thing that we have to continue to do at NJ2AS is to pay attention, not to take anything personally and continue to identify areas where we can improve.

 

As a long time gun owner I am less concerned with the "Operation Establish Compliance" plan, and quite frankly don't think that there should be any issue with "NJ law making no distinction between criminals and honest citizens when it comes to things like magazine capacity, hollow-points, possession, etc." The law should be the same for everyone, regardless if they are a law abiding citizen, a police officer, a criminal, or any combination thereof.

 

I agree that the FID/PPP process is flawed, but I would love to hear your ideas without having to listen to episode 10 of the GFH commercial. Anthony and I have had a couple of disagreements regarding his advertisements/podcasts, and consequently I don't consider GFH radio an accurate news source. However, I must say that Anthony has been a stand up guy when I have disagreed with some of his statements, and I look forward to meeting him on the 17th.

 

I guess that for me it all comes down to CCW, and I appreciate your assistance, but it seems to me that the 2nd Amendment Foundation is carrying the water in NJ, NY, MD, etc.

[Bob B 103]

Didn't mean to offend. I was making light of the response by showing that we can have a sense of humor about it.

[matt6669 71]

To tell you the truth I agreed with 3/4's of his post. And your typical response is half the reason I want nothing to do with your joke of an association. The other half has to do with actually knowing what goes on behind those closed doors and what a complete and udder disaster the foundation is.

 

I'll keep my money and put it towards a nest egg to get out of this state. I have a better chance of leaving this state than expecting the NJ2AS to make the laws better in NJ.

[Tom-NJ2AS 31]

To tell you the truth I agreed with 3/4's of his post. And your typical response is half the reason I want nothing to do with your joke of an association. The other half has to do with actually knowing what goes on behind those closed doors and what a complete and udder disaster the foundation is.

 

I'll keep my money and put it towards a nest egg to get out of this state. I have a better chance of leaving this state than expecting the NJ2AS to make the laws better in NJ.

 

 

Who's post are you referring to. Are you saying the NJ2AS is a joke? You have your right to your opinion, but like Bob said, we do give more information at the meetings. I do this because i want to change things in this state. I like NJ and do not want to leave. I work 12-13 hour days and do this in my "spare time". keep in mind i have a 2 and a 4year old, and one on the way, so spare time is stretching it a bit. Matt, have you come to any meetings? I just want to know why you think we are a joke?

 

Thanks, and i look forward to your response.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

To tell you the truth I agreed with 3/4's of his post. And your typical response is half the reason I want nothing to do with your joke of an association. The other half has to do with actually knowing what goes on behind those closed doors and what a complete and udder disaster the foundation is.

 

I'll keep my money and put it towards a nest egg to get out of this state. I have a better chance of leaving this state than expecting the NJ2AS to make the laws better in NJ.

 

And this is the reason why the 2nd ammendment is almost dead in this state. Because gun owners don't come together on issues.

Noone said you had to join their organization, but if you don't have 10 bucks to donate to the cause then why even bother?

[heaterbob 53]

To tell you the truth I agreed with 3/4's of his post. And your typical response is half the reason I want nothing to do with your joke of an association. The other half has to do with actually knowing what goes on behind those closed doors and what a complete and udder disaster the foundation is.

 

I'll keep my money and put it towards a nest egg to get out of this state. I have a better chance of leaving this state than expecting the NJ2AS to make the laws better in NJ.

did'nt you threaten to ban the next person who craped all over someone elses thread. i guess moderators dont have to choose the words carefully.

[djg0770 481]

As a long time gun owner I am less concerned with the "Operation Establish Compliance" plan, and quite frankly don't think that there should be any issue with "NJ law making no distinction between criminals and honest citizens when it comes to things like magazine capacity, hollow-points, possession, etc." The law should be the same for everyone, regardless if they are a law abiding citizen, a police officer, a criminal, or any combination thereof.

You're entitled to your opinion. But I would ask you what makes magazine capacity or hollow points more dangerous than say carrying a baseball bat? Possession of a firearm by a convicted felon or prohibited person should be automatic jail time, no pleading down, mandatory minimum sentence, etc - IMO.

 

 

I agree that the FID/PPP process is flawed, but I would love to hear your ideas without having to listen to episode 10 of the GFH commercial. Anthony and I have had a couple of disagreements regarding his advertisements/podcasts, and consequently I don't consider GFH radio an accurate news source. However, I must say that Anthony has been a stand up guy when I have disagreed with some of his statements, and I look forward to meeting him on the 17th.

I don't know what your disagreement was with GFH - but I don't generally care. The relevant part of this paragraph is that not everyone listens to podcasts, and if NJ2AS really is interested in getting the message out, you would transcribe the relevant parts of the broadcast. At this point, it's not a secrecy issue since you've got it out there on a podcast, it's just a "we've chosen this method, and this method ONLY to get our point across". You're ignoring a large segment of the population.

 

 

I guess that for me it all comes down to CCW, and I appreciate your assistance, but it seems to me that the 2nd Amendment Foundation is carrying the water in NJ, NY, MD, etc.

Others feel that there are more important issues than CCW. What good is CCW if it takes you 6 months to get a permit just to purchase a gun. What's the point of having a purchase permit system when NICS does the same damn thing? My point is that not everyone is interested only in CCW.

 

 

Now, turning my attention to NJ2AS, SAF, NJCSD, ANJRPC, NJHUNTER, NJGF and others, seriously, we have several organizations in the state who for whatever reason (could be pissing matches or stepped on toes or whatever) can't seem to get along within their own community. Would it not be more advantageous to have the organizations work TOGETHER, like a team, each spearheading their own (separate but related) efforts to bring to bear the full force of each organization to FORCE the legislature to address these issues in a timely, prudent and proper fashion? It's such a fractured mess as it stands right now that I can't believe any legislator would give ANY of the organizations above the time of day.

[Tom-NJ2AS 31]

Now, turning my attention to NJ2AS, SAF, NJCSD, ANJRPC, NJHUNTER, NJGF and others, seriously, we have several organizations in the state who for whatever reason (could be pissing matches or stepped on toes or whatever) can't seem to get along within their own community. Would it not be more advantageous to have the organizations work TOGETHER, like a team, each spearheading their own (separate but related) efforts to bring to bear the full force of each organization to FORCE the legislature to address these issues in a timely, prudent and proper fashion? It's such a fractured mess as it stands right now that I can't believe any legislator would give ANY of the organizations above the time of day.

 

 

That is why the NJ2AS works closely with the SAF, ANJRPC, and has tried to reach out to others. We need to do this together!

[Joelk 61]

This is the response I get for honestly responding to you and Tom's questions/comments regarding why some have not yet joined the NJ2AS? Posts like that are not the best way to encourage membership

 

I still hope to make the 8/17 meeting and check out your orginization.

[Joelk 61]

quite frankly don't think that there should be any issue with "NJ law making no distinction between criminals and honest citizens when it comes to things like magazine capacity, hollow-points, possession, etc." The law should be the same for everyone, regardless if they are a law abiding citizen, a police officer, a criminal, or any combination thereof.

You're entitled to your opinion. But I would ask you what makes magazine capacity or hollow points more dangerous than say carrying a baseball bat? Possession of a firearm by a convicted felon or prohibited person should be automatic jail time, no pleading down, mandatory minimum sentence, etc - IMO.

I don't think magazine capacity or hollow points are more dangerous than a bat. I think the mag capacity and holow point laws are BS and should be repealed. Is the NJ2AS working to do so?

 

I just disagreed with the quoted part about the law making no distinction between criminals and honest citizens. The law should be enforced the same on everyone, regardless of who they are. As to possession by a felon/prohibited person, of course they should be jailed, as they broke to law regarding possession by a prohibited person. I also think NJ needs a 3 strike law, but that is beyond the scope of this discussion.

 

I generally agree with everything else you wrote. I was just saying that CCW is my big issue. I understand that purchasing may be a bigger issue for others.

[Joelk 61]

That is why the NJ2AS works closely with the SAF, ANJRPC, and has tried to reach out to others. We need to do this together!

That you are working with the SAF on the current suit against NJ is something I respect, appreciate, and give you credit for!

[hd2000fxdl 422]

I just disagreed with the quoted part about the law making no distinction between criminals and honest citizens. The law should be enforced the same on everyone, regardless of who they are. As to possession by a felon/prohibited person, of course they should be jailed, as they broke to law regarding possession by a prohibited person. I also think NJ needs a 3 strike law, but that is beyond the scope of this discussion.

 

I generally agree with everything else you wrote. I was just saying that CCW is my big issue. I understand that purchasing may be a bigger issue for others.

 

Well in practice it's the Law abiding citizen who is trying to adhere to all the BS laws in this state who get jammed up, not criminals. While there shouldn't be 2 sets of rules, we just need to treat each (law abiding vs, criminals) accordingly. How many time when it comes to gun laws in this state are you guilty first and have to prove yourself innocent, not sure but that isn't how it's supposed to work.

 

As far as CCW, yes it is a very large concern for me also, but while each group is fighting a different battle they are all still focusing on CCW, but I look at each of these groups the I DO Support as fighting small battles here and there all focusing on winning the war. IMHO FWIW.

 

Harry

[Bob B 103]

This is the response I get for honestly responding to you and Tom's questions/comments regarding why some have not yet joined the NJ2AS? Posts like that are not the best way to encourage membership

 

I still hope to make the 8/17 meeting and check out your orginization.

 

My apologies. It was meant to show that I was taking your criticisms with a sense of humor. Perhaps I'm dating myself by using the two old guys from the Muppet Show - they are the two guys that always sat in the balcony and made fun of everyone, including themselves. At any rate, I took it down.

 

No hard feelings I hope.

[Malsua 1,422]

My apologies. It was meant to show that I was taking your criticisms with a sense of humor. Perhaps I'm dating myself by using the two old guys from the Muppet Show - they are the two guys that always sat in the balcony and made fun of everyone, including themselves. At any rate, I took it down.

 

No hard feelings I hope.

 

I found the clip funny personally, not as a comment on anyone's post in general. I suppose because I too grew up on the Muppet show and loved those old geezers.