Must See:The Never-ending Saga of Firearms in New Jersey

[BigHayden 77]

Congrats. You made Mulshine's page on NJ.com

 

http://blog.nj.com/njv_paul_mulshine/2011/10/an_assault_on_our_freedoms_the.html

[jcerillo70 16]

Today is a big day for NJ gun owners, and a big accomplishment. I still cant believe it made NJ.com/Star Ledger

 

All thanks to Frank Fiamingo aka Mr. Prez

[Frank Jack Fiamingo 58]

Today is a big day for NJ gun owners, and a big accomplishment. I still cant believe it made NJ.com/Star Ledger

 

All thanks to Frank Fiamingo aka Mr. Prez

 

Well, I appreciate the kudos, but I am but a cog in the machine. Ryan McBeth put the video together. We help with some content, but he did SUCH an EXCELLENT job!

[quikz 34]

In a way...... That video is funny to watch, yet, I am also sickened by it.

[Njgunowner 2]

My town reinvestigates me every time I apply and collects the $18 fee, and I apply 3 times a year. Your town is choosing to ignore the NJSP directive stating that all applications are to be done this way - consider yourself lucky.

 

The NJSP can REQUEST whatever they want, but it isn't LAW nor does it carry the weight of LAW. The LAW is actually pretty specific. What we need is to do what happened recently in Florida and add heavy fines and loss of job to public employees who add their own BS to the process.

[joecs1 11]

Thanks for the fix! Great video

[Tom-NJ2AS 31]

Well, its getting out there! I have posted it on every forums i can think of and it is spreading on its own!!

[Frank Jack Fiamingo 58]

Well, its getting out there! I have posted it on every forums i can think of and it is spreading on its own!!

 

YEP - it is getting out there - and *FAST*!

[Frank Jack Fiamingo 58]

Thanks for the fix! Great video

 

My Pleasure. Please share as much as possible. We should be able to make this go viral. People seem to really LIKE it. Even those who were not so firmly in our camp. When they see how ABSURD things are, it actually gets them to look at our situation with COMPLETELY different eyes. I am quite amazed actually. Ryan McBeth did one HELL of a job putting this together. I also owe thanks to smitty for supplying some of the content. The one thing I can say with *ALL* certainty, the New Jersey Second Amendment Society has attracted some of the ABSOLUTE best people in New Jersey. I hope those of you who haven't joined or donated to "Operation Establish Compliance" will do so. We need both your membership and your donations to carry on this fight. We are just about to launch Phase Two of OEC - we have to retain an attorney, and it is going to cost us. We are willing to spend this money to try and fix what's broken in New Jersey, but we are going to need *ALL* your help.

 

PLEASE JOIN and DONATE whatever you can. We do need your help. You will notice that I don't beg for money very often. We all get ENOUGH of the (almost daily) calls, letters and emails begging for money from the NRA, NAGR, SAF and others. I am not saying that they don't deserve your donations, but we are RIGHT HERE IN NJ! We are truly doing a LOT to improve the life of firearms owners here. We will not be able to do it alone. Here are some of the things we are currently involved in:

 

A Lawsuit against the NJ Division of State Police in order to obtain access to the "Firearms Applications Processing 'Investigation' Guide" (*** NOTE: The word "investigation was added to try and fool the Judge into thinking it should be secret - before that it was just the "Firearms Application Processing GUIDEBOOK").

 

The retention of an attorney to begin going after the individual towns and municipalities who are trampling upon our rights.

 

An introductory program for beginning shooters.

 

Campaigns to oust Anit-Gun-Owner legislators such as Lou "10 round" Greenwald.

 

Upcoming meetings with Evan Nappen, Alan Gura, and David Jensen (of the SAF/ANJRPC lawsuit).

 

The Non-Resident CCW licensing Program.

 

An active Facebook Group - http://www.facebook.com/groups/nj2as/

 

A growing YouTube Presence - http://www.youtube.com/user/nj2as

 

And MUCH MORE.

 

This all takes time and money, but it *IS* coming together. Anyone interested in finding out more, please meet us tomorrow evening at the North Jersey location of "Gun For Hire" at 75 Rutgers Street in Belleville, NJ at 7:30 PM. I will be speaking about the recent SAF Gun Rights Policy Conference that was held in Chicago last month. I will also be opening things up to the membership so that you can express some of your ideas and suggestions. Everyone is welcome. You don't have to be a current member. If you like, you will be able to join at the meeting. Please ignore the people who say that we are a "do-nothing" group. Those people are not involved and don't really have a clue. Come and see for yourself.

 

Thank you

 

FJF

[halbautomatisch 60]

The NJSP can REQUEST whatever they want, but it isn't LAW nor does it carry the weight of LAW. The LAW is actually pretty specific. What we need is to do what happened recently in Florida and add heavy fines and loss of job to public employees who add their own BS to the process.

You are correct that it is a RULE and not a LAW, but this is the NJSP's official policy on how they want apps processed, and IIRC the law allows the NJSP to set fees for this process. The local PD workers are trained by the NJSP and are told by them apps must be done this way, the towns are not pulling this out of thin air. The vast majority of towns are following the NJSP's BS procedure, ultimately it is up to the chief of each local PD to decide if they want to defy the NJSP or not, everyone below the chief is just doing what they're told.

 

Again, you're lucky you're in one of the few towns that realizes this process is absurd.

[hd2000fxdl 422]

When is the last time you got permits? In the last 4 years at least there has to be an NJSP background (with attendant $18.00 check) for EVERY Transaction, whether it's an initial, P2p, or even Change of Address.

 

Exactly, and I'm at 60 dollars a year for mine 18 X-2 and 12 dollars for 6 permits every 6 months.

 

Harry

[Njgunowner 2]

Screw it, I signed up for the NJ2AS membership. I'm not sure what it will accomplish, but the NRA is useless in NJ and we need to try something!

[jcerillo70 16]

The video is on New jersey 101.5 . Someone tune in quick!!!

[BigHayden 77]

Listening online... Dennis seems to be pretty pro-gun.

[jcerillo70 16]

Listening online... Dennis seems to be pretty pro-gun.

 

This is good stuff!!!

[Njgunowner 2]

Dang, I missed it.

[jcerillo70 16]

Frank the prez is trying to get on right now, hang in there

[jcerillo70 16]

nevermind, they have no more time left

[KpdPipes 388]

Screw it, I signed up for the NJ2AS membership. I'm not sure what it will accomplish, but the NRA is useless in NJ and we need to try something!

Really?? the NRA in the person of the NJARPC is the one partnering with SAF for the "Justifiable Need" lawsuit.

[Njgunowner 2]

Really?? the NRA in the person of the NJARPC is the one partnering with SAF for the "Justifiable Need" lawsuit.

 

They've had 50 years to work on NJ gun laws. They'll have to do a hell of lot more than that before I believe they are worth the effort.

[hd2000fxdl 422]

They've had 50 years to work on NJ gun laws. They'll have to do a hell of lot more than that before I believe they are worth the effort.

 

The NRA is involved where it's beneficial, and at the state level directly isn't always the best or wise way to spend our dues money. They are more effective on a national level, and each group in each state is more effective in fighting local issues. When things get to a point that chafe is close and the state level groups need that little added support they do get it. No reason for them to get involved in every little thing and exhaust all the money to fight every little battle when it's the war were all trying to win.

 

While we haven't had a lot of progress overall in the last 45 years, I think we have the most progress in the last year or two.

 

Harry

[Frank Jack Fiamingo 58]

The NRA does have its place. The ANJRPC has their place, and the NJ2AS has their place. We all need to continue to work at what we can do best. There is plenty of work to go around. As long as you are doing SOMETHING, that is fine. I would like to suggest that just paying your dues for membership in any or all of these groups is not going to be enough. There are a lot of other simple things you can do. Right now *TODAY*, you can volunteer to help a candidate in your district who is Pro-2A get elected (if you even HAVE such a candidate). If you are not sure, find out. They will *ALL* "say" that they support the Second Amendment, what they really must commit to is that every law-abiding citizen has the RIGHT to KEEP and BEAR ARMS, and that they will support such a bill. If they can't commit to that, they are simply *NOT* pro-2A no matter WHAT they say.

[StarWarsGeek45 5]

The NRA does not have a magic wand that they can just wave and make people think guns are good.

 

The reasons for gun control are not always so malicious, and often have a much more benevolent reason, wrong as it may be.

 

Fact of the matter is, guns are not a part of NJ's culture. They have not been, for a long time. In the majority of north east NJ, you have cities from Perth Amboy to Elizabeth, all the way up to Hudson and Bergen county, where an urban lifestyle and high crime leave no desire for guns among anyone besides cops and crooks. I call this the first row.

 

Past that, you have from Edison, north through Mountainside and Summit, up to Livingston, Rutherford, and farther north. These people have tons of money and live in nice neighborhoods, and thus don't feel a need for protection against imaginary crime in their pristine towns. Maybe some of these people hunt.

 

After that you've got the people out in the pineys, or up in northwest NJ who own guns, and are the small minority on the fringe.

[johnott 5]

Great video! It encapsulates the problems with NJ's current gun laws. It's a great way to introduce others to the issue's that gun owners face without getting up on a soapbox and lecturing to them. Well done.

[Frank Jack Fiamingo 58]

The NRA does not have a magic wand that they can just wave and make people think guns are good.

 

The reasons for gun control are not always so malicious, and often have a much more benevolent reason, wrong as it may be.

 

Fact of the matter is, guns are not a part of NJ's culture. They have not been, for a long time. In the majority of north east NJ, you have cities from Perth Amboy to Elizabeth, all the way up to Hudson and Bergen county, where an urban lifestyle and high crime leave no desire for guns among anyone besides cops and crooks. I call this the first row.

 

Past that, you have from Edison, north through Mountainside and Summit, up to Livingston, Rutherford, and farther north. These people have tons of money and live in nice neighborhoods, and thus don't feel a need for protection against imaginary crime in their pristine towns. Maybe some of these people hunt.

 

After that you've got the people out in the pineys, or up in northwest NJ who own guns, and are the small minority on the fringe.

 

Geek, our Constitutional right to keep and bear arms does not depend upon NJ "culture". It does not depend upon your incorrect assumption that law-abiding people who live in cities have "no desire for guns". The government does not even have the authority to inflict gun control upon the people. It is a fundamental, unalienable human right that our Constitution says "shall not be infringed". This right has been recognized by the highest court in the land in the Supreme Court decisions of Heller and McDonald. So, in short, everything you have said here is completely beside the point. The fact that "some" people may not want guns has absolutely NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with my right to possess and carry firearms for my protection and the protection of my family and property.

[Caine 147]

Video made it into the auctionarms.com/gunaction.com newsletter:

http://www.gunauction.com/news/article/20111024-firearms-ownership-New-Jersey-rules-regulations-fascism.cfm

[PDM 91]

I suspect StarwarsGeek's comment was not a justification for NJ gun control but rather an explanation of why it is is so pernicious, illogical and punitive. Everything Frank said is true, but unfortunately really doesn't matter as long as our politicians refuse to recognize our fundamental rights and the courts do nothing to stop them. We are relying on a very thin reed people -- a narrow 5 to 4 majority on the Supreme Court, with one of the 5 being a swing vote. We already know that NJ state courts are a lost cause when it comes to the Second Amendment. It is becoming more and more apparent that we can expect little relief at the Federal District Court level or even at the Court of Appeals level. We'll see what happens this week in the SAF case, but I would give 10:1 odds against prevailing in the District Court. I hate to be pessimistic, but I think there is a real possibility that Heller/McDonald may wind up being rather hollow victories when it comes to many of the things we care about. I hope I am wrong. I still believe that ultimately change will come slowly, one new gun owner at a time.

[Frank Jack Fiamingo 58]

Video made it into the auctionarms.com/gunaction.com newsletter:

http://www.gunauctio...ons-fascism.cfm

 

For some reason, my browser is preventing me from going to that URL. It is identifying it as a "phishing" site.

[Frank Jack Fiamingo 58]

I suspect StarwarsGeek's comment was not a justification for NJ gun control but rather an explanation of why it is is so pernicious, illogical and punitive. Everything Frank said is true, but unfortunately really doesn't matter as long as our politicians refuse to recognize our fundamental rights and the courts do nothing to stop them. We are relying on a very thin reed people -- a narrow 5 to 4 majority on the Supreme Court, with one of the 5 being a swing vote. We already know that NJ state courts are a lost cause when it comes to the Second Amendment. It is becoming more and more apparent that we can expect little relief at the Federal District Court level or even at the Court of Appeals level. We'll see what happens this week in the SAF case, but I would give 10:1 odds against prevailing in the District Court. I hate to be pessimistic, but I think there is a real possibility that Heller/McDonald may wind up being rather hollow victories when it comes to many of the things we care about. I hope I am wrong. I still believe that ultimately change will come slowly, one new gun owner at a time.

 

PDM - upon a second read, I have to agree that StarwarsGeek was not trying to justify gun control. I might have been just a "touch" too "quick on the trigger". I have been spending so many hours on our mutual cause lately that I think it may just be affecting my "mood". My apologies to StarwarsGeek.

 

I do want to stress that we need to continue the fight on ALL levels - Legislative, Executive and Judicial as well as in the court of public opinion, the fourth estate and all the various forms of social media. My main point however is we should always keep in mind the fact that our Constitution provides all the moral justification we need to support the claim to our rights. We need to re-frame the argument in our own minds. It is not that *WE* are trying to inflict our will upon a reluctant "majority". The truth is that those who impose gun-owner-control upon us are infringing upon OUR civil rights. Now, while I realize that argument is not going to win the "hearts and minds" of those who disregard our rights (no matter how benevolent their motives), it is more important that *WE* understand it at a very fundamental level. In order for us to maintain the stamina necessary to restore and preserve those rights, we need to be entirely secure in the legitimacy of our position. Simply put - we are right and they are wrong. Now all we need to do is figure out what to do with that information. *THAT* in a nutshell is what the NJ2AS is all about. We fight in the courts, we work with the legislature, we beat our heads against the brick wall of our executive branch, we Facebook, Twitter, Blog and You Tube (is that a verb yet). We do also try to engage the community with monthly meetings and beginner shooting events. No doubt there are *MANY* people we will not be able to reach, but we will STILL win because we are RIGHT and because we won't quit until we *DO*!

[Caine 147]

For some reason, my browser is preventing me from going to that URL. It is identifying it as a "phishing" site.

Hmmm not sure why you're getting that. It's a legitimate auction site like gunbroker.

 

They also posted it on their gunreports.com site:

http://www.gunreports.com/news/news/firearms-ownership-New-Jersey-rules-regulations-fascism_3469-1.html