Is this Legal in PRNJ

[Danno 127]

This looks entirely too cool and way too much fun to be legal here. Any help?

 

http://www.kushnapup.com

[big blue 0]

With a semi auto shotgun in NJ, you cannot have a detachable mag and a pistol grip, as that would constitute 2 evils. If it was tube fed you could have a pistol grip but the mag cap would have to be limited to 5 or 6 rounds (I can't remember which now)

 

I myself, was wondering, if the new "bulldog 762" bullpup kit for the M1A socom was legal in the PRNJ.

 

With the M1A socom kit, The barrel is of legal length, it has a muzzle brake not a flash hider, the overall lenght is OK, no bayonet lug, so having the evil of a pistol grip only amounts to 1 evil.

I'd love to get an accountable answer, as the kit is $1200 dollars and extremely well built.

 

I realize that, there really are no accountable answers in NJ only "grey areas" on purpose..LOL

[jruch87 6]

the pistol grip is a disqualifier on it's own. Even without the detachable mag you can't have it.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

Was there ever any resolution as to whether the way this bullpup is configured, that the grip is actually a "pistol grip". I thought the connector strap at the bottom was an effort to circumvent the "pistol grip" laws by making it a thumbhole (albeit a large thumb) stock? Just wondering.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[TCinJ 7]

Under the FAQ, it states:

 

"Is this legal?

Absolutely! Anywhere in the United States of America (some regions may be excluded)"

 

I'm not a lawyer, but I think the "some regions may be excluded" trumps the "anywhere in the united states".

 

Since NJ considers BB pistols and BB rifles "firearms" - I'd check with the authorities.

[Danno 127]

I was hoping the very generous trigger guard would hide the pistol grip. . I knew it looked like too much fun.

[Dan 177]

Was there ever any resolution as to whether the way this bullpup is configured, that the grip is actually a "pistol grip". I thought the connector strap at the bottom was an effort to circumvent the "pistol grip" laws by making it a thumbhole (albeit a large thumb) stock? Just wondering.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

 

Bob, I remember a discussion on this around the MSAR STG. I purchased one a few years ago, and the dealer said it was considered a "thumbhole" stock so I could have the flash-hider/threaded barrel. Someone either on this forum or somewhere else said they called the NJSP, and they said they consider it to be a "pistol grip". I don't have any references to draw back to, just my memory. Needless to say I have a model with a pinned brake (ugly one at that, i'd love to change it).

 

The STG has the strap forward, covering the front of your hand, a bullpup with a strap on the back covering your thumb, who knows it could be a "thumbhole stock". I have a friend with a FS2K bullpup with this configuration. Like anything in NJ, it could open you up to having to "prove it in court" so to say.

 

Last night Nappen said he had to give his expert opinion to a prosecutor in Bergan county explaining how a SKS (with fixed mag) is not an NJ defined "assault weapon". It is so obvious to all of us that an SKS does not fit the definition, but here we had a prosecutor about to press AWB charges on someone. That tells me it could happen with a bullpup where you are arguing that it has a thumbhole stock versus a pistol grip.

[Dan 177]

With a semi auto shotgun in NJ, you cannot have a detachable mag and a pistol grip, as that would constitute 2 evils. If it was tube fed you could have a pistol grip but the mag cap would have to be limited to 5 or 6 rounds (I can't remember which now)

 

I myself, was wondering, if the new "bulldog 762" bullpup kit for the M1A socom was legal in the PRNJ.

 

With the M1A socom kit, The barrel is of legal length, it has a muzzle brake not a flash hider, the overall lenght is OK, no bayonet lug, so having the evil of a pistol grip only amounts to 1 evil.

I'd love to get an accountable answer, as the kit is $1200 dollars and extremely well built.

 

I realize that, there really are no accountable answers in NJ only "grey areas" on purpose..LOL

 

As long as it means OAL requirements, all you have to do is pin the brake on the M1A in order to turn it into a bullpup and allow it to grow a pistol grip.

[PK90 3,570]

Regarding the STG-556, MSAR made compliant versions with brakes for banned states. IMO, they themselves consider it to be a pistol grip.

[david8613 69]

would this be legal in 7.62?

[vladtepes 1,060]

NJ does not define "thumbhole stock" so when a company calls a stock that.. in NJ it is a moot point because it lacks definition in NJ..

 

NJ does on the other hand define pistol grip..

 

"Pistol grip" means a well defined handle, similar to that found on a handgun, that protrudes

conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon, and which permits the firearm to be held and fired

with one hand.

 

notice it does not say fire comfortably with one hand.. it just says one hand..

beneath the "action" and permits 1 handed firing..

[vladtepes 1,060]

would this be legal in 7.62?

 

why would it not..

 

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php?/topic/24378-is-insert-any-semi-automatic-rifle-legal-in-nj/

 

NJ has a listing of guns they specifically prohibit under NJ law, they additionally have laws regarding guns they consider substantially identical. The following is a generally accepted criteria by which a semi automatic rifle is legal or illegal in NJ..

 

1) Is the gun that you want to buy banned by name?

 

yes - it is illegal and you may not have..

no - proceed to question 2

 

Algimec AGM1 type

Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder such as the "Street Sweeper" or "Striker 12"

Armalite AR-180 type

Australian Automatic Arms SAR

Avtomat Kalashnikov type semi-automatic firearms

Beretta AR-70 and BM59 semi-automatic firearms

Bushmaster Assault Rifle

Calico M-900 Assault carbine and M-900

CETME G3

Chartered Industries of Singapore SR-88 type

Colt AR-15 and CAR-15 series

Daewoo K-1, K-2, Max 1 and Max 2, AR 100 types

Demro TAC-1 carbine type

Encom MP-9 and MP-45 carbine types

FAMAS MAS223 types

FN-FAL, FN-LAR, or FN-FNC type semi-automatic firearms

Franchi SPAS 12 and LAW 12 shotguns

G3SA type

Galil type

Heckler and Koch HK91, HK93, HK94, MP5, PSG-1

Intratec TEC 9 and 22 semi-automatic firearms

M1 carbine type

M14S type

MAC 10, MAC 11, MAC 11-9 mm carbine type firearms

PJK M-68 carbine type

Plainfield Machine Company Carbine

Ruger K-Mini-14/5 F and Mini-14/5 RF

SIG AMT, SIG 550SP, SIG 551SP, SIG PE-57 types

SKS with detachable magazine type

Spectre Auto carbine type

Springfield Armory BM59 and SAR-48 type

Sterling MK-6, MK-7 and SAR types

Steyr A.U.G. semi-automatic firearms

USAS 12 semi-automatic type shotgun

Uzi type semi-automatic firearms

Valmet M62, M71S, M76, or M78 type semi-automatic firearms

Weaver Arm Nighthawk;

 

2) Is the gun substantially identical as defined by law?

 

yes - it is illegal and you may not have

no - gun is legal and you may have..

 

2. Any firearm manufactured under any designation, which is substantially identical to any of the

firearms listed in paragraph 1 above. As used in this definition, the term "substantial" means

pertaining to the substance, matter, material or essence of a thing and the term "identical" means

exactly the same. Hence, a firearm is substantially identical to another only if it is identical in all

material, essential respects. A firearm is not substantially identical to a listed assault firearm unless

it is identical except for differences that do not alter the essential nature of the firearm.

The following are examples of manufacturer changes that do not alter the essential nature of the

firearm: the name or designation of the firearm; the color of the firearm; the material used to make

the barrel or stock of the firearm; the material used to make a pistol grip; and a modification of a

pistol grip. This is not an exclusive list. A semi-automatic firearm should be considered to be

"substantially identical," that is, identical in all material respects, to a named assault weapon if it

meets the below listed criteria:

i. A semi-automatic rifle that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least

two of the following:

(1) A folding or telescoping stock;

(2) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;

(3) A bayonet mount;

(4) A flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash

suppressor; and

(5) A grenade launcher;

 

 

gun may not have magazine capacity exceeding 15 rounds...

gun must meet minimum requirements for length...

[vladtepes 1,060]

I would not personally want to do mag changes on a bull pup configured AK pattern gun.. I think it would be awkward since they do not utilize drop free mags.. you have to rock the mag to lock it.. now you are reaching back.. rocking behind your pistol grip hand.. just does not seem anywhere near as efficient..

[ExpendableRaj 1]

Even if it were NJ legal, it's still a terrible design. Bullpup AK/SKS are typically the favorite of mall ninjas and Bubbas everywhere. They suck at just about everything besides hip firing at a pile of garbage behind a trailer park for a Youtube Video

[Recon Racoon 49]

Even if it were NJ legal, it's still a terrible design. Bullpup AK/SKS are typically the favorite of mall ninjas and Bubbas everywhere. They suck at just about everything besides hip firing at a pile of garbage behind a trailer park for a Youtube Video

That definitely screams 'Hold my beer, and watch this'.

 

As far as the OP goes, I'd just be repeating some of what others have said:

 

Because of the 'pistol grip' its illegal. Or at least thats how I understand the semi auto shotgun laws.

[david8613 69]

looks like an aug...

[BMWR12 35]

This looks entirely too cool and way too much fun to be legal here. Any help?

 

http://www.kushnapup.com

 

 

Maybe you should try one of these instead if you want a bullpup shotgun.

[big blue 0]

I was never a bullpup buy , but this has to be the baddest bullpup out there in 7.62 no less.

I cannot see any reason this gun would violate any existing NJ laws.

 

[vladtepes 1,060]

bullpup in itself is not specifically banned.. it simply follows the legality test of all other rifles.. mag cap.. length... AWB features.. etc..