Home security systems

[AverageJoe 95]

Haha, I accidentally set of my alarm last night. I had it set and I opened a door thats set to instanly set off the system, no delay. Ten seconds later I got the call from central station lol. I know it all works lol.

[compujas 21]

Now I'm pretty much back to where I was last week, confused and unsure which direction to go. I see a lot of contradicting "reviews" of companies and seemingly no real suggestion for who to go to. At this point in my mind the options are either go with ADT and suck it up if they suck, or make an attempt to find a local small company and suck it up if they go out of business. Neither appear to be very good options.

 

Realistically though, I think any alarm system, even one that takes a while to notify the police, will at least get the police on the scene quicker than 10 minutes after I get home from work (like last time). And if nothing else, at least inside the house the siren will go off and alert anyone inside that something's wrong rather than waiting for an intruder to be on top of me before I know about it.

 

Unfortunately it's starting to seem like there may be no "right" answer, but only a few "passable" ones. I'm just trying to get some sort of "warm and fuzzy feeling" about which way to go with it rather than signing a contract and dropping that much money on a complete SWAG.

[Jon 264]

IMO, I think the best alarm would be some type of cell backup something-or-other as Nick said, but have the notification go directly to your cell. That way, you know if someone should be home or not, and can call the Police if you want. I would also couple this with some streaming video cameras, so you can get a description of someone going through your place.

[compujas 21]

Anyone heard of or have comments on SafeMart?

 

Also, for these wireless sensor systems, is it possible to add sensors later? For example, if I decided I wanted to add fire/smoke detectors, or motion sensors after the initial installation? I would assume you can.

[Dan 177]

Again i will tell everyone that has VOIP...if YOUR panel is tied to the lines...there is better than a 90% chance that the signal WILL NOT make it to the CO (central Office), no matter who you use....

 

it is a function of the transport medium and how the panel 'talks' to the receiver that drops data so the receiver misses the signal...

 

But others will tell you it works fine....THEY ARE WRONG and lying to you because they do not know any better....but YMMV.........

 

I've been using VOIP for years with my centrally monitored system. Never had a problem. That was with Cablevision's VOIP, FIOS VOIP, and now Phonepower VOIP.

 

I can even send and receive faxes over my VOIP line. Mileage may vary, but this has been my experience.

 

NextAlarm has an option for an internet monitored system as well in case you want to do that and not use the phone line.

[Dan 177]

Anyone feel free to PM me if you want to know more about NextAlarm and Visonics systems. I was in the same boat... , wanted full control over my system (superuser access), add the sensors I want where I want them, remote controls, good CO monitoring, easy to use, and not get barreled in to long term contracts.

 

I've set up my own home and my neighbors home with the same system and service. We are both happy customers.

[rdsmith3 19]

The problem is the majority of ADT 'engineering' and sales people are clueless...........they are educated to count openings....boilerplate BS......

 

*IF* they were ever called upon to engineer/design a real project, they step on thier proverbial johnsons.....

 

Now considering home alarms....eh..pretty wrote...but nonetheless.....technology comes into play....

 

Again i will tell everyone that has VOIP...if YOUR panel is tied to the lines...there is better than a 90% chance that the signal WILL NOT make it to the CO (central Office), no matter who you use....

 

it is a function of the transport medium and how the panel 'talks' to the receiver that drops data so the receiver misses the signal...

 

But others will tell you it works fine....THEY ARE WRONG and lying to you because they do not know any better....but YMMV.........

 

My alarm is connected to Cablevision VOIP, and it works fine. Cell service is very spotty in my house. The biggest problem with VOIP is that you're screwed if the power happens to be out. Your alarm system has battery backup, but your cable modem probably does not.

[compujas 21]

The best security system is a good dog......yard sign....and trim back your vegetation and add exterior motion lighting.....*IF* you even look like you have a good security profile the bad guys move to a softer target....

 

I wish I could agree with this, but I can't. Maybe I'm just the exception. I live on a very main road (Berkshire Valley Road in Oak Ridge, for anyone familiar with the area). Cops drive by all day. My house is only 100 ft from the road and the front door is very visible. I keep the bushes trimmed back, have a Schlage lockset and deadbolt reinforced on a steel front door. I have a porch light on a timer, garage lights on motion, backyard lighting on motion. My house was broken into in broad daylight while we were at work. They kicked my door until the deadbolt broke, made a bee-line for the office and bedroom, tossed the drawers, and made off with a laptop and jewelry. When the cops showed up after I called when I got home, one of them said "I can't believe this happened here. I drive up and down this stretch all day, no less than 5 times today." A determined thief won't care that you're security conscious if they think they're quick enough.

 

Right now, my main reason for wanting a security system isn't so much to protect my stuff when I'm not home, because it can all be replaced. I'm more concerned about protecting my family in case we ARE home. The extra benefit is added protection when I'm not home. And my dog isn't much help, she doesn't bark at people or cars, only wildlife.

[Dan 177]

Hi Dan, Fax etc is different than the data stream that is being sent by the control panels.... Take for example CONTACT-ID format....which is a common format to transport alarm signals it is basically DTMF tones... The receiver picks up and sends a signal tone to begin...The panel send a preamble information, account info (##'s) then the DTMF string for the event...then closing data then the receiver gives a kiss off -transmission end... NOW the problem is when you have VOIP and if you there is any QOS or other means to decrease lag time or delay in the communication.....what happens is the message is packetized and is not delivered properly. Ok so let's say if the data stream is broken up as follows and the receiver is expecting to receive it as follows: 1234***456***5678912763***1234***9* ( asterisks beings pauses and numbers being control admin data; yes the format is wrong....but it fits the example) This is HOW and at what rate the receiver is supposed to be expecting.....BUT what if the VOIP stream chops the data and it looks like this...?? 123445***6***5678***912***7631234*** Guess what...your panel just did not send a signal to the central office because the receiver could not decode it due to the breaks.... 6 times out of ten it can and will work...BUT what if it doesn't on the others during an actual emergency..are YOU willing to take that risk....Im not....

 

Understood. I've been using CID for the past 3 years, hasn't let me down yet... well with false alarms , sensor tests, power outages, etc. Although, I am checking with my provider if they accept SIA or 4/2 comm settings as it seems these options might be more robust.

 

Regardless, I don't rely on my alarm system's reporting capabilities for actual emergencies. If someone is breaking into the house, they will be cutting phone , cable, whatever other comm lines going to the house anyway. The fact they know I have an alarm , and how they will be forced to cut the lines, then have to think if I have a GSM backup all add up to my multi-layered deterrence system. Then they have to worry about my external cameras, so if they do break in, they have to now search for and destroy the DVR. For me, CO reporting is a luxury, and for instance I primarily see it as a fire reporting solution for when we aren't home.

 

I have some other tricks, like integrating X10 controlled quad piezo tweeter internal plug in sirens throughout the house. It is painful to be in the room with one blasting, and it forces you to cover your ears while you try to search for where that insane sound is coming from. Plus the external siren will be blasting and flashing.

[Sandy 44]

We had X10 piezos on our walk in counter . For like a week before I smashed them. They are the most loudest and annoying thing in the world. Which is good in it's application , but not as a "test me" display next to your head where you work all day.

 

I really do know about this stuff and Nick is giving , IMO , the best answer. I was technical sales for 14 years and spec'ed out many a complex system for high security application jobs.

 

I was there for the whole digital revolution and it did not go smoothly. I am not surprised to hear they still do not have an across the board reliable solution. (I'm home for 5 years with my kids now) . I have Vonage and paid for enhanced 911. I have called 911 from our home twice. Once , it worked ok. It got me through after one transfer that seemed an eternity. The second time , when our 3 month was turning blue and my husband was about to start CPR I got transferred 3 TIMES , each time with the call saying " town and state please" and "what is your emergency" only was asked once ..by that time too much time had elapsed and I yelled forget it ! And hung up . I was going to throw the baby in the car and do 90 to Hackensack myself. Finally he came out of it , thank God and we were able to drive him in ourselves safely.

 

Point is , the transfer data system worked once , but was an EPIC fail another time. I now have the number for our police written on the fridge. They have 24/7 dispatch. Not d*&king around with 911 ever again unless it is a landline which I am thinking of getting again.

 

With the way technology is and with the length that these things to take marry up ( and the digital world is changing so quickly that what works once quarter might be obsolete in the next quarter) , it is not surprising to hear of inconsistent monitoring response time .

 

And if you have a great experience with ADT , that is great . But know that when you are recommending ADT you are not necessarily recommending the crew that handles your stuff. Plus , they could change central station contract internally , you won't know about it , and the new one might suck and you learn about that fact the hard way.

 

Go with a private owned company that does their own central station monitoring .

 

Nick - I worked for King Alarm until ADI bought them out and then fled to Alarmax.

 

By the way , ADT is owned by Tyco and has been up against monopoly and antitrust allegations . They are huge and buy up everything from installers , to the the distributors , to the actual equipment . They are corporate bullies and by owning everything soup to nuts they can afford to severely low ball accounts and bids . It squashes competitive pricing , creates a bid monopoly situation and drives the independents out of business .They can put in a fire detector for so cheap because the parent company Tyco owns the detector , the store the detector needs to be bought from , and the guy putting the detector in. An independent guy has to pay way much more for the same detector so his price has to be higher. Honeywell is the other big brother company.

 

Now , not that it will affect everyone , but I know some people here are" buy local and buy small oriented ". You might pay a bit more on the install , but your monitoring will probably be less $$ and better taken care of , you won't get gouged if you decide to add one piece to your spec'ed system ( a "free install free gear " chain specialty tactic ) , and the guy you buy from will have pride in his company and will take better care of you in the run. Remember ADT companies get sold . The next people to answer your call may not be the same ones you had a good experience with. for years , on any given day

[ar15bang 0]

How about this for whole house

 

http://www.fogshield.com/

[Dan 177]

 

If I was to make a penetration at a home...I would have a cell jammer....cut the lines...and look to power the home down PRIOR to entering....

 

Exactly my thinking. If they want something that badly, and they are willing to go through the trouble to do all that, then nothing short of armed guards and steel bared windows and doors will make a difference. Even if they did cut the power they would still be entering a house that still seems live, as I have about 4 UPS's backing up critical systems like the alarm, network, DVR, etc. Plus they all scream and beep at different intervals creating a sense of "oh shiz , this cutting power thing didn't work out well" in the intruder's mind.

 

This will force them to take the 3min limit tactic of running through the house and just going for small valuables like jewelery and any cash laying around. They will forgo the whole, lets spend 4 hours in here trashing the place, working the gun safes, eating your food, breaking water pipes, and whatever else they want to do.

 

I agree Nick, CO monitoring via whatever avenue being landline, voip, GSM, etc is just one layer that can fail just like any other... exemplifying the need for multiple.

[Dan 177]

How about this for whole house

 

http://www.fogshield.com/

 

Sweet I want it! I'd put in some scary computer voice screaming "Nerve Agent Release Detected"

[MikeL417 33]

Time to get a retired police dog... Or a new one I don't care

[compujas 21]

I am still awaiting for the permit that I applied for to put the Dillon Aero on the roof mount..

 

I wouldn't even know where to apply for that, but if you get approved, PLEASE let us know. You'd have to sell the house you're trying to protect just to afford the ammo to protect it.

[hopper 36]

Anthony from GUN FOR HIRE recommends this guy , sounds like this guy knows his sh*t may waana check him out ... http://www.prismelectronics.com/index.html

[BlueLineFish 615]

So much good info in this thread. Thank you everybody. Nick I will be in touch shortly when I am ready

[petros600 12]

I am thinking to order this http://2gig.com/index.php

[EFmoto 1]

I work for a central station that monitors for several thousand alarm companies (as in I monitor for companies that install the systems. I monitorall of USA/Canada/VI/PR), Stay away from ADT and PInnacle Security.

[Sandy 44]

Anthony from GUN FOR HIRE recommends this guy , sounds like this guy knows his sh*t may waana check him out ... http://www.prismelec....com/index.html

I know of them as well.Guy's name is Dean . Good company , trustworthy.