"No Firearms" clause in apartment lease

[mikeyboyeee 66]

It would be VERY easy to prove undue burdon in this case if you got caught. You legally own a firearm in NJ. You are ONLY allowed to keep said firearm (legally) at your place of residence. It is an undue burdon to expect you to keep something you are legally entitled to at another location which would put you in violoation of NJ law.

 

When I sign a lease which has clauses I do not agree with, I change them and send it back to the landlord. I have never had one come back and say no.

[PeteF 1,044]

 

 

Which is illegal. A landlord can not enter your leased residence without permission.

They can not drop by for an impromptu inspection, etc without your consent. Well, they can stop by, but you don't have to let them in and if they enter without you, it is illegal..

 

if my landlord entered my apt without my consent, I could have him arrested for trespassing (yes even tho he owns the actual apt).

It's not illegal for landlord to enter unannouced.

Landlord has right to enter for emergencies.

 

Example: Toilet ovetflows and is soaking downstairs neighbor,

He calls your number no answer. He Will enter your apartment to fix the issue.

 

[this_is_nascar 162]

You know what...................... Do what you want guys. Be dishonest. Be deceitful to satisfy your own desires. Lie, cheat, steal, f*ck your neighbors wife, etc. I really don't give two sh*ts. It seems to be the way of the land anymore, where people think everyone owes them something. Refer to my "right of entitlement" statement above. Good Lord.

[Jon 264]

[this_is_nascar 162]

 

 

 

You're saying to relax, but are you hearing/seeing what's being said here? People's true character and morals are coming to light. It has nothing to do with the typical "my opinion vs. others opinion", I far as I'm concerned.

[Jon 264]

You're saying to relax, but are you hearing/seeing what's being said here? People's true character and morals are coming to light. It has nothing to do with the typical "my opinion vs. others opinion", I far as I'm concerned.

 

I do see what's being said, however...

 

Lie, cheat, steal, f*ck your neighbors wife, etc. I really don't give two sh*ts. It seems to be the way of the land anymore, where people think everyone owes them something.

 

This is over the top. Looks like you need to take a deep breath and relax before you give yourself an ulcer.

[this_is_nascar 162]

I do see what's being said, however...

 

 

 

This is over the top. Looks like you need to take a deep breath and relax before you give yourself an ulcer.

 

 

 

Yea, you're probably right.

[Shane45 807]

Are you a gun control inc plant or what? You have no moral issues for those wanting to deny a right to others but are full of piss and vinigar for those that dont want to succumb to it? Or are you just stomping your feet because no one agrees with you?

[this_is_nascar 162]

If you really want to know, I'm bothered by the fact that so many are suggesting and apparently OK with being dishonest, deceptive and deceitful. How is a landlord denying anyone's right to have a firearm in their (the landlord's) dwelling? Because the renter is paying a fee, you feel he (the renter) has a right to do whatever he wants? I guess I don't understand why you and others don't see it. It's that "right of entitlement" thing again, trust me.

 

 

Bottom line is the lease agreement says "no firearms". You have the option of asking the landlord for an exception or have it removed from the lease. If neither of that occurs, than you are not "entitled" to have a firearm in the landlord's dwelling. Why is that so difficult to understand?

[Shane45 807]

I see. So if the landlord puts in the lease that as a condition of living here you must vote democratic, not republican, thats ok? How about if he puts in the contract that as a condition of living here you give up your right to a trial by jury? How about if its a woman your not allowed to vote at all? What your failing to recognise is it is an issue to try and contract someone to give up a civil right!

[this_is_nascar 162]

I see. So if the landlord puts in the lease that as a condition of living here you must vote democratic, not republican, thats ok? How about if he puts in the contract that as a condition of living here you give up your right to a trial by jury? What your failing to recognize is it is an issue to try and contract someone to give up a civil right!

 

 

 

I feel you're exaggerating to the degree that this wouldn't occur, but then again, I'm not wearing my tinhat today. That being said, the only right you have in your example, as far as I'm concerned, is the right to try an get those items that bother you removed or changed or you have the right to NOT SIGN THE LEASE.

 

 

I think you're missing my point. I'm not arguing the right/wrong of what's in the lease. I'm concerned with the "I'll do whatever I want, regardless of what I signed in the lease" attitude. You know................. that "right of entitlement" I've continued to use. If you can't see that, let's just agree to disagree. OK?

[this_is_nascar 162]

To the OP, this may or may not help you.

 

http://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/can-a-nj-landlord-prohibit-firearms-on-the-leased--223079.html

[this_is_nascar 162]

Here are some more opinions that may interest you.

 

 

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_8_50/400646_.html&page=1

[mikeyboyeee 66]

It's not illegal for landlord to enter unannouced.

Landlord has right to enter for emergencies.

 

Example: Toilet ovetflows and is soaking downstairs neighbor,

He calls your number no answer. He Will enter your apartment to fix the issue.

 

And that's about the ONLY time he is allowed to enter without notice:

 

http://www.lsnjlaw.org/english/placeilive/irentmyhome/tenantsrights/chapterfour/index.cfm#4whenenter

 

When can a landlord enter?

The law allows the landlord or the landlord’s workers to go into the tenant’s dwelling only in a few special situations:

• If the tenant invites or asks the landlord or one of the landlord’s workers to come in.
  
• If the landlord needs to inspect the apartment, but only:
  
  • at reasonable periods of time—every day is unreasonable, every few months might be okay;
    
  • at a reasonable time of day—4 a.m. is unreasonable, 4 p.m. might be okay, depending on whether the tenant will be home at that time; and
    
  • only after giving the tenant reasonable notice that he or she is coming to inspect. Reasonable notice usually means a written notice. It also usually means that the notice must be given at least one day before the landlord wants to come in. For buildings containing three apartments or more, there is a regulation requiring one day’s notice before a landlord can come into an apartment to make an inspection or do repairs. Cite: N.J.A.C. 5:10-5.1©.
    

  [*]If the landlord or one of the landlord’s workers needs to go into the apartment to do maintenance or make repairs. If the repairs are not an emergency, they can only enter the house or apartment at a reasonable time and after giving reasonable notice.

  [*]If the landlord or the landlord’s workers need to go into the house or apartment to do emergency repairs. Under this circumstance, the landlord may not have to give one day’s notice—or even any notice—if the emergency is really serious or dangerous, for example, the apartment is on fire or water is rushing out of a broken pipe and pouring through the floor. But even in the case of an emergency, the landlord should try to give some notice if he or she can, even if the notice is just a phone call.

Top of page

What if the landlord won’t stay out?

If the landlord or one of the landlord’s workers enters your house or apartment and does not have your permission or does not have one of the other reasons discussed above, he or she is breaking the law. You should send a letter by certified mail to the landlord complaining about what happened. Keep a copy for your records. You can also call the police or go to the police station or local court and file a complaint for “trespass” or “harassment” against the person who entered without your permission. You might be able to file a trespass or harassment complaint because, even though your landlord owns the building, he or she has given you the right to possess the apartment.

[Shane45 807]

You say the other examples are far fetched but funny thing is they are all on the same parchment of paper granting these rights!!! How can you logically argue that being asked to give up one right is ok and the others is an exageration?

 

Your heading down the slippery slope of blind obedience. There is no legal duty to obey an unjust law. Why do you think there is one to obey a contract that has overstepped its legal reach by requiring the tennant to give up a civil right?

[Shane45 807]

By they way since it is brought up in one of your links, you are aware the 2nd has been incorporated right?

[this_is_nascar 162]

You say the other examples are far fetched but funny thing is they are all on the same parchment of paper granting these rights!!! How can you logically argue that being asked to give up one right is ok and the others is an exageration?

 

Your heading down the slippery slope of blind obedience. There is no legal duty to obey an unjust law. Why do you think there is one to obey a contract that has overstepped its legal reach by requiring the tennant to give up a civil right?

 

 

Says who? So tomorrow, if we all decided that rape and murder is part of an unjust law, it's OK to proceed?

[this_is_nascar 162]

By they way since it is brought up in one of your links, you are aware the 2nd has been incorporated right?

 

 

Sorry, I don't understand what you're asking me.

[Shane45 807]

I dont have the time, energy or inclination to type a full lesson on the common scources of law and how just and unjust laws are determined. You will have to go do that research or take the class for yourself. No where I know of in the US is rape and murder legal. And your example is bad because those actions are civil rights violations on the recieving party of said rape and murder. But dodge and deflect as you may, you still dont seem to want to speak to the question of why some rights are ok to violate and not others?

[Shane45 807]

If you dont understand what Im asking you, that means you dont understand that the 2nd amendment has been incorporated. In one of your links one of the posters specifically names the 2nd's incorporation as a position that to require a forfiture of your rights it in a lease is likely an issue.

[greatgunstatenj 32]

If you really want to know, I'm bothered by the fact that so many are suggesting and apparently OK with being dishonest, deceptive and deceitful. How is a landlord denying anyone's right to have a firearm in their (the landlord's) dwelling? Because the renter is paying a fee, you feel he (the renter) has a right to do whatever he wants? I guess I don't understand why you and others don't see it. It's that "right of entitlement" thing again, trust me.

 

Bottom line is the lease agreement says "no firearms". You have the option of asking the landlord for an exception or have it removed from the lease. If neither of that occurs, than you are not "entitled" to have a firearm in the landlord's dwelling. Why is that so difficult to understand?

 

The OP asked a question and folks chimed in to answer it. I didn't see anyone telling him to do it or not do it. Sounds to me like you think landlords should be able to strip a person of their 2nd amendment right and the ability to protect themselves and their family. I don't happen to agree with that outlook and if the only place I could find to live had something against guns I'd still have them because the Constitution trumps joe schmoe landlord. As a landlord I would never tell anyone they couldn't keep a legally owned gun in the house. IMO it would be like telling them they couldn't practice religion on the property.

[this_is_nascar 162]

OK, I give guys. I'm throwing up the white flag, not because I've changed my mind on the subject, but because it's nothing more than a back and forth at this point. You guys feel one way, I feel another. That's not going to change. Have at it by yourselves if you'd like. OP, good luck in whatever you decide to do. I wish you the best.

[RedBowTies88 41]

I'm a landlord by trade, trust me I hate lying scumbag tenants who think they can do whatever they want more then anybody. However there needs to be a balance. As a landlord I try not to ask anything unreasonable and always try to work with people when they have an issue with their lease.

 

However I do not have the right to tell people what they can or cannot bring into THEIR home (yes, once you sign that lease its basically theirs until they default or the term is up) as long as said objects are not causing any damage to my property.

 

Would I like it if they unloaded a truckload of gay porn DVD's and dungeon equipment into their place? Hell no, if nehibors saw that it would be bad for business. But as long as their not drilling holes in the wall or floor to install any of it it's none of my damn business.

[Recon Racoon 49]

http://realestate.msn.com/article.aspx?cp-documentid=26553329

 

Decent article, I suggest OP reads it. Ask to sign the lease in person. Strike the clauses you don't agree with, or may be illegal. If the landlord doesn't agree to some of the changes, find some where else. If you aren't sure about a clause in the lease agreement, ask a tenants association.

 

There are legal ways to strike clauses. Always has been. In this case Google is your friend. If there is something you don't know, aren't sure about, search it, ask about it.

[Springfield1911 22]

It's not illegal for landlord to enter unannouced.

Landlord has right to enter for emergencies.

 

Example: Toilet ovetflows and is soaking downstairs neighbor,

He calls your number no answer. He Will enter your apartment to fix the issue.

 

Your correct but only for emergencies. You cannot just show up and ask to inspect the place. A landlord has to give notice if he just wants to stop by for an inspection unless you let him in on the spot but you dont have to.

[Springfield1911 22]

I am supposed to be signing a lease this weekend for which they emailed me a copy of the lease to review... There is a "No firearms" clause in the lease. Has anyone dealt with this? Is there anything I can do? Is there any legal remifications other than the potential for a breach of the lease / eviction? Could there be any criminal

liability? Should I just talk to building management and explain the truth? If they reject me it would be a big problem because there are no other options for rentals in the exact area we need to be in. Thanks -

 

Is this a 2 family home or a multi dwelling unit (3 units or more)?

[BRaptor 68]

It's a "right to contract" issue in an open market. In general, two parties may enter into a contract to do or not do anything, so long as the action is not illegal.

 

Again, I'll tell you, you can freely contract away LARGE portions of your 1A rights (no signs, billboards, flags, flag poles, pamphletting, soliciting or campaigning in an HOA or apartment complex) in exchange for a leasehold estate. If you are a co-tenant with your landlord, he may let the police in to search all common areas (there's your 4A right).

 

Are you all HONESTLY advocating that the government should get even more involved in our ability to enter into and enforce contracts that two parties entered into with open eyes by holding it unenforceable in court?!?!?! I'm saddened. I thought this forum had more independent thinkers and believers.

 

If you don't like the clause in the lease, negotiate it. If the landlord won't budge, be an adult and WALK! Don't sign a lease you don't intend to follow.

[Matt 0]

UPDATE: so heres the update to what happened. I decided to just try to talk it out with the landlord (a major developer, which I knew could be a problem). I told the building manager with whom I will be signing the lease about the situation and she said she would get back to me, talked to corporate, and came back to me today and said "Well, corporate is unwilling to change the lease in any way, but what I can tell you is, you never told me about the guns, Ill see you on saturday to sign the lease".

[SpecialK 193]

OMG she is tearing apart the fabric of our moral society!!!!!! Why doesn't she just start killing babies!!!!! How can anyone ignre the sacred bond of a lease agreement!!!!

 

Glad to hear things are going to work out just fine for you it sounds.

[this_is_nascar 162]

OMG she is tearing apart the fabric of our moral society!!!!!! Why doesn't she just start killing babies!!!!! How can anyone ignore the sacred bond of a lease agreement!!!!

 

Glad to hear things are going to work out just fine for you it sounds.

 

 

I'm going to assume this is directed at me based on my posts on this topic, since only one (or maybe two others) seem to feel the way I do. I just wish you were man enough to confront me by name on this thread or by private message.

 

At any rate, your sarcastic remark that I highlighted is actually true, except now you have (2) persons directly involved. The specific question about what was in the lease was asked and an answer was given. The answer is not what the OP wanted to here, but now we have an accomplice that's willing to turn away as well and knowingly go against the lease. How can you not say this is a lack of morals in a person(s)? Let's call it what it is, shall we. The word dishonest comes to mind. If this is how you guys choose to live your lives, that's fine, however it IS and DOES contribute to lessening of morals in today's society.