Trying to undstand NJ knife laws

[jauslong 0]

I work in an office. There was one guy that always had a knife and was eager to use it. It was never the best tool for the job. Every job was better done with a box cutter or scissors instead of his 5 inch lock back.

 

That's cause that guy is a tool. Haha. Couldn't resist.

[kman 56]

If you really do want to do a small part in clarifying and repealing ambiguous and unnecessary knife laws, join Knife Rights.

 

http://www.kniferights.org/

 

They have already put the slap down in NYC courts on several occasions for ridiculous knife prosecutions.

[checko 180]

My brother got arrested for having a pocket knife on the NYC subway. He is a chef and also carrying his cooking blades. So dumb. He now has a misdemeanor conviction, had to do community service, and I don't know if he can get a gun license in NY with it now.

[kman 56]

Did he fight it? Knives 4 inches or less are totally legal in NYC. Longer than that should be OK for a chef. He should fight this in court.

 

He should join Knife Rights and tell them, they might take his case.

 

http://www.kniferights.org/

 

Knife rights has been litigating knife cases in New York and has been successful in pushing back against them. They would be all over this. They have a litigation fund like the NRA does. A chef being prosecuted for having a knife? I'd get in touch with them as soon as possible!

[checko 180]

Its been a while since it happened but I'll let him know thanks

[johnott 5]

From my friend an LEO, NJ has no length rules, but there are 2 main rules to be aware of.

 

1. Officer Discretion: As in BlueLineFish's example, you should have a reason for that machete strapped to your leg, as in "just clearing brush", or that box cutter "just got out of work at UPS". Not the worst law I suppose but would rather have none.

 

2. Concealed Carry: That is one a lot of folks forget. Most folders now have pocket clips. Clip it with the knife in the pocket .. concealed ... clipped with knife outside .. legal. Machete on your leg doable, in your pants not.

 

Add rule 1 with rule 2 and anything is possible.

 

NYC has actively been looking for clips BTW, and snagging lots of knives, usually with just the lose of the knife for the tourist. So don't go to NYC with your $400 Sebanza in your pocket.

 

 

BTW, I own no knives, only tools

 

I don't agree with the reasoning behind rule #2... I mean the term "pocket knife" by sheer definition would imply carrying it concealed in the pocket; if that were illegal then why isn't it specifically pointed out in statute that all pocket knives are illegal.

 

The item is a TOOL. It doesn't become a weapon unless you specify that it is or you use it as a weapon... the purpose decides whether or not the item in your pocket is a weapon. If it is determined that you are carrying it as a weapon and it's in your pocket it would be a concealed weapon no matter what the item is.... BUT conversely, if you carry it outside your pocket and it's purpose is as a weapon you're still in trouble for carrying an illegal weapon. Lawful purpose is everything.

[gunguy1960 2]

Lets start a non profit to re habilitate these knives and guns that have become evil in the hands of bad guys (and gals) once we are done we can find good homes for these guns and knives among people like us, anyone need a "companion" 45?, how about a "seeing" laser sight?

[deleteme 0]

The whole problem is right there in the title of the thread. 3 words stand out...

 

... Understand ... NJ ... Laws

 

 

 

 

Lol

[cigarsnscotch 0]

Or just move out of this POS state like me! I can't believe the shit we as residents of this state put up with.

[BarkNBite 15]

Agreed............

[Bishop 0]

I don't agree with the reasoning behind rule #2... I mean the term "pocket knife" by sheer definition would imply carrying it concealed in the pocket; if that were illegal then why isn't it specifically pointed out in statute that all pocket knives are illegal.

 

The item is a TOOL. It doesn't become a weapon unless you specify that it is or you use it as a weapon... the purpose decides whether or not the item in your pocket is a weapon. If it is determined that you are carrying it as a weapon and it's in your pocket it would be a concealed weapon no matter what the item is.... BUT conversely, if you carry it outside your pocket and it's purpose is as a weapon you're still in trouble for carrying an illegal weapon. Lawful purpose is everything.

 

Refer to Rule #1 to determine rule #2.

[Secret Squirrel 3]

I carry a SOG Escape on me, easy reason for it? I have to open a lot of boxes at work. Never had a problem with it.

[SHY_Veritas 0]

Usually at work it's someone that came over to borrow my leatherman that asks "why do you have a knife?" I think the obvious answer to them is "you're using it, why don't you have one?"

 

That is funny. lol

 

From my friend an LEO, NJ has no length rules, but there are 2 main rules to be aware of. 1. Officer Discretion: As in BlueLineFish's example, you should have a reason for that machete strapped to your leg, as in "just clearing brush", or that box cutter "just got out of work at UPS". Not the worst law I suppose but would rather have none. 2. Concealed Carry: That is one a lot of folks forget. Most folders now have pocket clips. Clip it with the knife in the pocket .. concealed ... clipped with knife outside .. legal. Machete on your leg doable, in your pants not. Add rule 1 with rule 2 and anything is possible. NYC has actively been looking for clips BTW, and snagging lots of knives, usually with just the lose of the knife for the tourist. So don't go to NYC with your $400 Sebanza in your pocket. BTW, I own no knives, only tools

 

I have a 4in blade (Gerber Answer F.A.S.T XL Tanto) So I could actually keep that on me? I've been afraid to carry it because I thought it would cause trouble with it being so long. I would obviously have a good reason "I tend to ship a lot of packages and need to cut boxes to 1. break them down often, 2. I have to sometimes cut the boxes to make them smaller."

 

Here is the quesiton. I thought we had to keep them concealed? I was always under the impression we had to keep them in your pocket. My cousin always keeps his in his pocked but clipped. Does that mean I have to get a holster for my knife? I already have a Leatherman also. Will that cause a problem because it has a knife in it already?

[johnott 5]

Refer to Rule #1 to determine rule #2.

 

What I thought I implied in my original statement is that there is no rule #2. It doesn't exist for the for the average person.

 

To clarify: I am referring to that which is legal only. Rule #1 covers legal purpose (as I stated before). If the purpose is legal (such as a tool) then rule #2 is moot. There is no law against carrying a concealed or non-concealed tool. The problem is some (not all) LEO's seem to always look at such items as illegal weapons first and therefore you have to prove to the LEO it's not a weapon nor will it be used as a weapon. Like most of NJ weapons law you are guilty until you prove yourself otherwise. Whether or not you are confronted by an LEO over an exposed but sheathed knife or a visible clip on a pocket knife depends on the circumstances and which LEO you meet. IMO such laws are poorly written and too many that enforce them are not duly instructed in their meaning; otherwise the average citizen wouldn't have so much trepidation about carrying a simple pocket knife.

[Bishop 0]

 

I have a 4in blade (Gerber Answer F.A.S.T XL Tanto) So I could actually keep that on me?

 

IMHO and Experience and I train with a lot of POs .. yes. Also, they even are unsure themselves on concealed vs non.

 

I think the only time you'd get harassed is if your shadey, or have a run in with a PO with a bad disposition.

 

What I thought I implied in my original statement is that there is no rule #2. It doesn't exist for the for the average person.

 

To clarify: I am referring to that which is legal only. Rule #1 covers legal purpose (as I stated before). If the purpose is legal (such as a tool) then rule #2 is moot. There is no law against carrying a concealed or non-concealed tool. The problem is some (not all) LEO's seem to always look at such items as illegal weapons first and therefore you have to prove to the LEO it's not a weapon nor will it be used as a weapon. Like most of NJ weapons law you are guilty until you prove yourself otherwise. Whether or not you are confronted by an LEO over an exposed but sheathed knife or a visible clip on a pocket knife depends on the circumstances and which LEO you meet. IMO such laws are poorly written and too many that enforce them are not duly instructed in their meaning; otherwise the average citizen wouldn't have so much trepidation about carrying a simple pocket knife.

Yep johnott, the laws are poorly written.

Even the term gravity knife is taking on its own meaning ... now a stud assist or a spydie hole .. in the eyes of one with an agenda, can get you in a pickle.

 

Once they view it as a weapon, then the concealed vs non concealed.

How they come to that decision is up to the PO.

 

I go about my business with at least 1 knife on me 24/7.

I do think though where I'm going and am.

 

Example, had to go to court for something, had a knife and a mini ASP keychain on me .. forgot.

Was standing before the fellas so too late to turn and went for it.

"Hi guys" pulled out and put my knife and keys/asp on the tray .. "how's it going" ... through the metal detect .. knife no problem ... they stopped me for the mini asp.

(Actually a serious charge to carry one, even a small one) I think plastic kubotons are still OK, but not metal or collapsible.

Would have been sticky but more small talk ... "I train with some of you guys at so and so's ... you know John at the academy .. yadda yadda" and "see you later guys!".

 

Now, always think and have keys on quick release.

Even driving, if I think there might be a cop behind me, I pull out my knife and put it in the console, along with the mini asp.

 

If I go anywhere where there is security, or might be, I dress down appropriately ... keys only and a less conspicuous knife, and less expensive in the event of a forfit.

 

Granted, there are at least a dozen knives in my truck anyway at any given time with the sharpening biz, so I can choose on the fly.

 

Bottom line, even most of the POs are not positive, but know they can screw your day up if they wanted to.